Hey guys, obviously this recap is going to take awhile, so I wanted to give you the opportunity to start discussing your reactions to the episode. I'm not going to be able to respond to anything here because I'll be busy writing! I may chime in here and there but it will only delay the recap!
So enjoy and I'll get the recap up probably late in the morning. Okay, so it went up at 3:30 pm! I'm sorry!! Here's the link. See you then!
447 comments:
«Oldest ‹Older 201 – 400 of 447 Newer› Newest»So I was wrong and you guys were right. There really wasnt any Litereture tie ends (except Evrything that rises must converge)
and at the end of it all they really were playing "pin the tail on the Donkey Wheel" for script ideas
Oh another question. Kate was wearing her black dress as she walked into the church. Then all of a sudden Jack walks in to greet everybody and she has on a new outfit?
I don't believe Jack was the last to die, he was the last to 'remember/realize/come to terms with' his own death.
Will be back on for the MikeV blog later - and scanned a few more comments.
People who are saying the island real - please explain how it is real. If that island is real it is one of fantasy. I thought this was a real drama. That island ain't real any more than the polar bear in my back yard.
Don't get me wrong, the ending was good. I was moved. I cried for the characters I spent so much time getting to know. And I was also left somewhat disappointed. Don't just gobble up everything you're fed with a smile. Question it. You can still enjoy it but be critical.
Man all the questions are piling up... How come The Man in Black was 'stuck' in Locke's body? They mention it and they never say why he was trapped in that form.
And since I was so clearly wrong about the devine Jacob birth thing
Im going to steal that I dea even if it did actualy end up being ... mine.... wait.....
I'm not supposed to be reading this right now...but Paolo - don't you worry...i have you covered in the recap! (already had it written! and had seen it last thursday at times talk live lol)
"""Perhaps I am the minority but I'd guess more than a few people are wondering whether the island was real. If so you have to have some kind of explanation for everything - Dharma, Jacob, MIB, lighthouse, time travel the list goes on. That stuff is UNREAL and cannot get left unexplained AT ALL! Not buying the 'Island is Real' way out so easily. How can it be real?"""
1. This is TV story.
2. Seasons 1 through 5 were 'real', because the writers clearly said so in the finale. They dropped about five very blatant hints during the last 20 minutes that ONLY the flash sideways was purgatory.
3. you don't need an 'explanation' for everything to justify the above reality. Like if every question isn't answered, then that means seasons 1 to 5 (and half of 6) weren't real. Like the time travel stuff. It happened. It also happened due to the unique electromagnatic properties of the island. THAT caused the time travel stuff. It was real. It happened (per the story that is)
Other then Christian were there any other voices from the island in the church? MIB confirmed he was Christian but the other voices/ ghost sights could have been the souls that couldn't find the light and stuck in purgatory or could not redeem themselves and went to hell. Once you did redeem off to heaven you went as we witnessed.
The person that signed off as C Cuse. That wasn't really C Cuse??? or was it? I mean I doubt it but was someone just joking?
So here is the question of the ages now.
Why didnt Jacob have Desmond pull the Hook of Makeir Seitch Rock out of the Light Hole and just restore balance right after Desmond blew up the swan when he turned the fail safe?
He could have killed smokey in season 3
You're right he did say what happened was real. I take it as the redemption that their souls experienced was real not the island.
with that ending Locke would have never died and could have taken Jacobs place and Jack would be a some what replacement for MIB and the last scene would be..
Locke in white on a beach, Jack in black approaches and they exchage pleasantries
The Jack says " its always the same, they come they bleed and I have to sew them up....
Locke "It pnly ends once and everything inbetween is just The Practice..."
Amazing, Emotional, Satisfing, the last show did no wrong in my eyes like I stated on my facebook page for those people who still want more....or didn't understand what happened... you probably never really understood the show to begin with...
Also, Jimmy Kimmel did a great job
"""Okay, C. Cuse, since you have answers, can you continue with your viewpoint on the following:What would you say actually happened during the incident?"""
Which one? If you are talking about the Losties setting off elements of the nuke in 1977, ok. With that, the set off the EMP aspects of the bomb and that mixed in with the electromagnetism of the Hatch. The two combined to 'reset' the island's quirky time paradox problem (of having 2004 people stuck in 1977) and sent their bodies and consciences back to 2007...catching up with their friends. Unifying things. As Juliet said..."it worked"
"""How did Eloise know what she knew, in both "Sideways"/Purgatory and in the Desmond time-travel sequences earlier in the series?"""
She knew about Desmond's stuff in the real world because she was fortunate (or unfortunate) enough to have Daniel's little brown notebook which pretty much spelling out what would happen in the future. As far as the Purgatory ...she was like Ben. Aware now of where she was, but not yet ready to let things go. She spent her real life seeing her son f'd up, and I'm guessing wanted to hold him longer in Purgatory, be with him...rather than doing the right thing and letting him move on (wherever that may be). I don't see any mystery there.
"""Is the show trying to tell us that on the island, Christian was MIB in every appearance?"""
Yes. That was the case. MIB was trying to manipulate the Losties as part of his plan of getting off the island. He thought he had found, after thousands upon thousands of years...a loophole.
"""How does Michael ever find redemption if he is trapped for eternity as a whispering voice?"""
That is a question that will never be answered. It is left up to you and everyone else to just find your own conclusion, based on what you saw over all the seasons.
"""What would happen to those who actually die in SidePurgaways? Like Keamy. Can you be reborn in a purgatory world?"""
Again, the show has no intention of answering that tricky question because then it would be following or abiding by ONE particular religious or spirituality viewpoint. That could set about offending people, like one religion is better or more right than the other. The show, from day one, has not followed just Judiasm, or Catholicism. It has tried to be 'spiritual' without being religious. Make sense?
If you truly want an answer to your above Purgatory question, the answer you seek is best found by researching the religion you follow. If none, then pick one. Most religions have answers to your above question
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C Cuse
I cannot believe all of the anger in the comments. The conclusion of the show may not have been what you wanted it to be, but it was a perfect ending to fit the show...an ending that actually held true to the show instead of dumbing itself down to the audience in order for everyone to walk away happy. The show ended as it had existed: in mystery and open to interpretation.
As for my interpretation, I think it is obvious that everything on the island was real. It wasn't all a test, or purgatory, etc. The flashbacks and the flashforwards were also real. The only thing that was not real were the flash-sidways (and by real, I mean events occuring in reality and in the timeline of the living). The flash-sideways 'timeline' occurs in no particular time, as Christian Sherpherd stated, some had died before, some after. This is what Desmond had failed to understand in his vision and why he was inncorrect about removing the plug and why he didn't disappear into the light.
The bonds of friendship and love formed by these individuals during their time together on the island were strong enough to bind them together forever, even in the afterlife, where they reunited at the same time and place they would have landed if not for the crash. That's my understanding of it anyway. Loved the story, hate to see it end (guess I just have to let go).
In hindsight, questions I thought were important, aren't. But I now have 2 that I think are. David - if he didn't exist, why did people other than Jack see him? Desmond - how could he seemingly go between the living world and the afterlife?
WOW! i thought that was a great episode, and a fitting conclusion to Lost! still on an emotional high (or maybe low?) from the show. going to watch it again when i feel up to it! can't wait for the recap.
do not understand all the hate i see for the ending. i am not the biggest lost fan, but i thought it fairly simple to understand the episode and Christian's final words. I actually think he spelled out a lot in that short speech.
no, they did not die because of the crash. yes, everything we saw for the last six seasons happened. no, the island was not purgatory, nor was the sideways world. no, jack was not the last to die. lost was ultimately a story of redemption and letting go. at the end, we see all the characters understanding that and finally moving on.
jack's final scene with Vincent, was a perfect way to bring it full circle, and a real tear jerker. it ended with jack because it started with him. like him or not, he was the main character, and his story from man of science to man of faith was the glue that held it all together.
though it cost me many hours of sleep, and six seasons of watching tv, i am sad to see the show end. truly a remarkable pop culture experience. thank you mike for the blog, and thank to Lost for everything!
mike
Did anyone notice the church window? It had symbols from buddhism, which pretty much sums up the meaning for me (or how I interpreted it). Their past life regressions is what they saw in their present day life in LA (which in turn was Heaven?). I believe that we're all connected to various souls in our lives and we all eventually get second chances in another life to make amends. I was frustrated with the whole series and would only recommend it to friends if they watch the whole series back to back (like 24 =) but the ending really made it worth it!!
I am glad to see everyone is as confused as me. So basically everyone died from the plane crash? Um ok. But Penny, Richard, and several others weren't even on the plane. I don't think Jack knew them from before the crash, so I really don't see how they were such a big impact on his life, so why were they in his big psychotic break while he was dying.
Rufus, the island was real, in terms of it being real in a fictional story. Not real in terms of you will be able to find on a map in today's world (unless you count hawaii lol). I think you're attempting to look at this as a situation that would be occurring in our reality, when in fact it occurred in a fictional story ... like a good book ...
And why didnt we see
Richard Matheson's book
What Dreams may Come
that would have been a better easter egg that
Everything that Rises must Converge
Unless all the easter eggs ever were, were just the Titles of the books.
thats cheesy
thats like one of those easter eggs granpaw gave you that had a nickel in it and not candy.
Can someone please explain how Jack got out of the bottom of the hole in the cave? He seems to have just woken up near the bamboo field? Also, why wasn't he torn to pieces like the MIB. Desmond was special, but I don't think Jack was.
Anyways, I also noticed the skeletons at the bottom of the cave and thought that maybe this type of "reset" on the island was done before.
anon
Jack washed out with the water.
"I am glad to see everyone is as confused as me. So basically everyone died from the plane crash? Um ok. But Penny, Richard, and several others weren't even on the plane. I don't think Jack knew them from before the crash, so I really don't see how they were such a big impact on his life, so why were they in his big psychotic break while he was dying."
No. Read the posts. No one died on the plane crash. The original Sept 2004 crash...the people who survived ...that was real. It happened.
Lisa I saw the window behind Christian and David
I was just trying to figure out who in the church was Hindu?
"Can someone please explain how Jack got out of the bottom of the hole in the cave? He seems to have just woken up near the bamboo field? Also, why wasn't he torn to pieces like the MIB. Desmond was special, but I don't think Jack was.
Jack got out of the cave in the same manner the original MIB did...which was never explained. Perhaps it teleported him out? Who knows? Does even that need explained? Does it really matter?? But just how like the original MIB's body was tossed out, Jack was too. And just like how MIB then later died (and was found by Jacob), Jack later died too, which is what you saw when he fell over in the bamboo patch. I'm sure Hurley and Ben then found him not long after and buried him.
Anyways, I also noticed the skeletons at the bottom of the cave and thought that maybe this type of "reset" on the island was done before.
The show made it very clear that the history of the Island, the protection of it, went back well before the crazy lady and the two twins (Jacob and MIB). Bones can last millions of years and that's what the writers wanted to portray....it's been going on ever since 'man' became man. And it will probably keep going on forever too.
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C Cuse
MIB getting out of the cave wasnt explained?
Well then thats why he was washed up on the Light Rivers banks all soaking wet.
I must have seen the extended version already
If this is thew real C. Cuse
Then why did you use
Flannery Oconnors book
Everything that Rises must Converge?
Was just the title a foreshodow and not the book?
Someone remind me again why it was so important to keep MIB on the island? How would he have ended the world? That part of the story makes no sense.
I thought the skeletons at the bottom of the cave were Spoiler Posters that the guys from Lostpedia tracked down and put there.
"MIB getting out of the cave wasnt explained?Well then thats why he was washed up on the Light Rivers banks all soaking wet."
I think the question being asked is 'how' did the body get out of the cave. If MIB turned into the smoke monster...how did his body get out of the hole in the ground. If you remember, Jacob found the body lying in a creek.
How his body got up there? Not explained. Just how it wasn't explained how Jack got out of the hole in the ground too.
Does it matter? Nope. Jack was human when he fixed the plug, so the light rays down there would kill him. They did. And the story finishes much better with him crawling off to die in the same spot it all started in years earlier. Completes things.
"Someone remind me again why it was so important to keep MIB on the island? How would he have ended the world? That part of the story makes no sense.
Because MIB, when he became the smoke monster....he was PART of the essence of the island. The ying to the yang. If he leaves, the sort of rips out the essence of the light and wrecks the whole time/space/electromagnetism of the island. Destroys the world. How would it do that? Is that much detail really needed? No, it isn't. Just use your imagination.
--------------
C Cuse
Very Disappointing.
This series finale was predictable and overall poorly written. I expected right to the end that the writers would deliver something more creative and provocative, but they chose the easy way out. They really should be disappointed in themselves, and they probably are. I have NO problem with many of the questions not being answered, but vagueness is not a substitute for quality and creativity.
In the end, the flash sideways is a sort of perverse purgatory, one with fake relationships and fake offspring. I can go on forever, but why are those 108 island days more important (as Christian implies) than life before the island?? -- i.e., why is Sayeed with the blond chic and not Nadia?? I expected a play on morality, that morality as we define it does not exist, that to save the world Jacob's "stepmom" needed to commit a heinous murder, but in fact this murder was not heinous. Jack should have become (innocently, like MIB) the smoke monster -- I really thought that's where this was going, and would have been the greatest ending. But instead, a church get-together as the last seen?? how cliché!! Wow –what a bummer!
from: RM
I dont care how Jack or MIB got out of the cave. What I want to know is if the TITLES of the books were the foreshadow and not the actual content of the book
Because it would have been better If Jacob was reading
What Dreams May Come
when Locke did his Greg Luganus out the window.
Very Disappointing.
This series finale was predictable and overall poorly written. I expected right to the end that the writers would deliver something more creative and provocative, but they chose the easy way out. They really should be disappointed in themselves, and they probably are. I have NO problem with many of the questions not being answered, but vagueness is not a substitute for quality and creativity.
In the end, the flash sideways is a sort of perverse purgatory, one with fake relationships and fake offspring. I can go on forever, but why are those 108 island days more important (as Christian implies) than life before the island?? -- i.e., why is Sayeed with the blond chic and not Nadia?? I expected a play on morality, that morality as we define it does not exist, that to save the world Jacob's "stepmom" needed to commit a heinous murder, but in fact this murder was not heinous. Jack should have become (innocently, like MIB) the smoke monster -- I really thought that's where this was going, and would have been the greatest ending. But instead, a church get-together as the last seen?? how cliché!! Wow –what a bummer!
from: RM
I'm so sorry guys...this recap is taking forever. I'm just wrapping up the Island storyline. Still have to do the Sideways!
Hope everyone is content entertaining themselves here in the meantime!
I apologize again!
And if it was the content of the book that was the "foreshadow"
Why wasnt Christian Shepard" ever reading M.Night Shaymalans Script
SIXTH SENSE?
oh wait he did read sixth sense
he just did it out loud at the end
Crash-Rewind it again. Look at the symbols on the stain glass window at the end with Christian and Jack and the coffin room...
Lisa I know
I saw all the symbols
The symbol under the Islam Moon and Star was the hindu Symbol OHM
I just wanted to know who was Hindu
inside the Heavens Waiting Lounge
Who was Hindu in the cast?
Better than Seinfeld, nowhere near M*A*S*H.....
If this is the real C Cuse
Wich do you think would sell better a book than explains all the literary refrences of Lost?
Or a PICTURE book with all the big bangs and bikini shots?
I would say that if someone wants to actually to post the kind of trash/smack hateful comments to the writers and fans...Signing in as Anon w/out putting your name is just plain weak. If one has such strong negative statements but doesn't have the uh...gall to ID yourself than your point is pretty useless to me. If one is just gonna spout off about the team being poor writers with typos in their post without and ID than I would say it's a waste of bandwidth
GlennR - nice call on Eloise. I was going to mention that as one of my issues. Just another bit of huge plot left unanswered and enexplainable. Too easy to just buy this as a 'great ending, well done CC & DL'. I'm fine with loose ends but the ones they left were friggin huge loose ends. I do think they had a plan from the beginning but they went all over the place for a few seasons with some strange and unnecessary storylines. That's part of the reason they lost viewers each season, except for the die hards. They got 6 seasons out of it though and developed some characters we grew to love.
I will truly miss that core group of Losties a lot.
Guys give me a break...Damon and Carlton are in RADIO SILENCE. Carlton is not on this blog giving answers! lol
@ Mike
please don't appologise. I think you ought to take a lunch break..get out in the sun and finish the recap at your leisure.
I thought it was excellent!! I'm a little disappointed moving around the blogosphere and even amongst various media outlets that some people totally did not get the ending. Maybe over time enough people will get the word out and clear up the confusion. I absolutely loved the finale and appreciate the writer's, cast, etc. for bringing us this wonderful series and conclusion. Well played!!
"Is the real Cuse on here giving valid and awesome answers to lingering questions? If so I have a question, did the island Desmond have a near death experience with the electomagnetic shock that awoken him to the sideways/purgatory life thus changing his outlook on life in the island?
Yes. As was repeatedly written in the show, Desmond was 'special'. Something about his body was unique in how the electromagnetism affected his body and consciousness. This ultimately was the instigator of many of the problems (time paradoxes) but also the final solution/weapon that would help bring down the MIB/smoke monster. Anyways, to the question....yes...those same properties were triggered again early in season six by CW. And when that happened, it allowed Desmond to help people once again, one last time, in Purgatory. Symbolic in a way, as these people were 'lost' in some sort of waystation, unable to move on. Desmond, once his abilities were triggered, was able to rescue and save them one last time. Help them move on. Be happy. Be complete.
------------
C Cuse
I have been reading this blog for a while now (great job Mike, really- wonderful :) and I have never felt the desire to post something until now.
Paolo and Crash-OMG. how pathetic that you are looking for 'props' on a tv shows blog, "calling" OBVIOUS situations before they happened. If this will make your life worthwhile, then please- "check the archives" Crash, and let us all know who deserves the credit because we REALLY CARE (note the massive amount of sarcasm).
Im sorry Mike, but I had to say something... i feel like seth and amy on SNL when i see their comments and repeatedly ask myself- REALLY? i mean, REALLY?????
Larry said
A truly great series and I applaud cast and crew alike.
It is interesting reading these posts.
People seem very passionate in their respective opinions.
After 6 years why wouldn't they be?
For me the unanswered questions are disappointing.
It's like reading a Sherlock Homes book that just says the butler did it but doesn't explain how he came to that conclusion.
Yes we got to know the island was real.
The sideways flashes purgatory giving the characters they ability deal with their unresolved issues.
The ending (a bit to much like a cast party for me) a chance to see your loved ones in the afterlife.
* For those wondering why it was people from the island instead of family members, remember that Christian said the island was the important part of their lives.*
So there are the basic answers.
But it leaves out so many cool things that the authors brought up in the telling of the tale.
There are lots of question some have been brought up already , origin of the statue, what's up with Walt etc.
I have two questions
Why neither Desmond nor Jack turned into smoke monsters when the entered the cave of light?
And why if the smoke monster could only take the form of someone that was dead did he show up as Shannon when she was still alive?
If anyone knows I'd be grateful for you incite.
Thanks
@Gidgit Girl: Thanks so much for that litany of questions and excellent answers. As I've thought about the show more this morning I'm really quite satisfied that our solution is as close to a "unified field theory" of the Lost universe as you can get. And the more I think about it, the more I *like* the answers. It's a religious show. I thought it was a sci-fi show for the first 5.5 seasons, but it's not. At first that was weird, but i kind of dig it.
And, on the other hand, the writers have explicitly stated that there is no complete unified field theory. Some things won't be answered, some things have to be taken on faith. Given how Meta this show is, and how many times and different ways they made that point BOTH to the audience and to the characters themselves, I'm willing to accept that as an answer. Some things can't be explained, you just have to accept them and Let Go of the need for black and white reasons. If they hadn't made that point so often and so well I'd think it was a cop-out, but they did a good enough job that I think that is actually what they meant. I guess that makes me a believer.
LA sideways time was Purgatory?
People get run over in wheel chairs in purgatory?
How did Keamy get in Purgatory?
And do we get to shoot people and kick thier ass in purgatory?
Larry said
A truly great series and I applaud cast and crew alike.
It is interesting reading these posts.
People seem very passionate in their respective opinions.
After 6 years why wouldn't they be?
For me the unanswered questions are disappointing.
It's like reading a Sherlock Homes book that just says the butler did it but doesn't explain how he came to that conclusion.
Yes we got to know the island was real.
The sideways flashes purgatory giving the characters they ability deal with their unresolved issues.
The ending (a bit to much like a cast party for me) a chance to see your loved ones in the afterlife.
* For those wondering why it was people from the island instead of family members, remember that Christian said the island was the important part of their lives.*
So there are the basic answers.
But it leaves out so many cool things that the authors brought up in the telling of the tale.
There are lots of question some have been brought up already , origin of the statue, what's up with Walt etc.
I have two questions
Why neither Desmond nor Jack turned into smoke monsters when the entered the cave of light?
And why if the smoke monster could only take the form of someone that was dead did he show up as Shannon when she was still alive?
If anyone knows I'd be grateful for you incite.
Thanks
lol so C Cuse is an imposter!!!
@ Crash good question on which book would sell more.
Ok Mr CUSE
lets just skip the trivial questions and get to a real one.
Did you know anyone that was involved in the Real Tanerife Plane Crash?
Maybe you worked on one of the movies they made about the Tanerife Plane Crash?
I was satisfied with the ending. For what it's worth the island was real, hurley and ben kept on protecting the island until they died, hence the line about being a "great #2." The sideways land was the "meeting place" not purgatory, but a place where they can all remember each other and the most important time of their lives before they choose to move on.
That said, I still have questions about the light, what is it, is that the sole purpose for the island and the whole meat of lost? Also, in the sideways land how come the lives created for them still had pain/troubles?
One more thing, If Michael wasnt in the church because he did bad things and was stuck on the island, how come ben got to go to the church? I guess he didn't go in, but still he did tons of bad stuff. My issue is this: is the protection of the island enough to redeem Ben so he can 'move on,' or at least go to sideways land/the church?
tenerife sorry
Another thought, if going down into the light changes people into smoke monsters, A) we saw several sets of bones down there, where are the other smoke monsters? and B) how come desmond/jack didn't become smoke monsters?
anon
I did post who said it first
and I did ask to be taken off.
Wow!
This is the ending I had originally in my mind, only: the bodies of
the passengers would be shown strewn around the plane and island and as the camera
zooms away from Jack's face his hand is outstretched and touches Kates body whose laying next to Sawyer. etc..
Anyway real happy with ending, believable and inspiring.
I feel someone watching who "Lost" a friend due to a plane crash
would find this comforting.
Thanks Mike,
Gary H
"Why neither Desmond nor Jack turned into smoke monsters when the entered the cave of light?
Because: 1) When Desmond entered the smoke monster was inside fake John Locke. 2) Jack didn't turn into the smoke monster because when he entered, the 'essence' of the island (light, etc..) had already been sealed off, there was nothing there to do anything to him.
"And why if the smoke monster could only take the form of someone that was dead, [why] did he show up as Shannon when she was still alive?
The smoke monster could 'appear' to be anything he wanted. It was magic. He could only 'physically' return to the living (not an apparition) when taking over a dead body. Like his former self or John Locke.
I kid you not. One day i thought "What if the final scene of Lost was just the Bow Newhart ending?" At least kimmel pandered to my thoughts :)
Anon
As far as it being "pathetic" to ask
Ok you win you are better than me you get to go Directly to Heavens Waiting Room and you wont even have to be run over by a car.
or get your a** kicked by Desmond Hume
That said, I still have questions about the light, what is it, is that the sole purpose for the island and the whole meat of lost?
In spiritual terms, it the essence of our souls. What creates them. In scientific terms, it is pure electromagnetism at a level beyond comprehension, that unifies time, space and reality. It helps keep order for our subconscious. Without it, we would fall to pieces and not exist.
Also, in the sideways land how come the lives created for them still had pain/troubles?
Because it's purgatory. Not reality. A place where time does not exist. A place where your subconscious sits until it's issues can be sorted out and you are able to move on. So with that, it's neither perfect or problem free. And in that reality/place, you will tend to exist or 'be' around those people who were most meaningful in your life. Stuck there aimslessly. Some aware, some not aware, unable to move on. Desmond though finally helped rescue them.
One more thing, If Michael wasnt in the church because he did bad things and was stuck on the island, how come ben got to go to the church? I guess he didn't go in, but still he did tons of bad stuff. My issue is this: is the protection of the island enough to redeem Ben so he can 'move on,' or at least go to sideways land/the church?
Gidget Girl: I agree with most of your comments. One thing I am confused about - if Jughead did not go off (which I always doubted since Juliette was right next to it and she was still alive afterwards!) then why was there a huge hole there?
I am totally on-board with the island being real and the sideways world being some sort of purgatory or waiting room until everyone could be back together.
I want to watch the ep again and see Mike's recap before making more comments. My first reaction was some disappointment, but now that it's sinking in, I'm happy with the resolution.
One thing I know for sure, I have never enjoyed a TV show more and gotten so involved in the characters lives. I will never tire of watching my DVDs and reliving the whole adventure! CajunQT
Oh great Hollywood is rewriting Dogma now as it concerns purgatory.
Whats next?
Did hurley go to Kentucky Fried Heaven?
Has the Milk And Honey of paradise been replaced with Soy Milk and Neutra Sweet?
Maybe God can sublet Purgatory to Play Station 3
They need a good storyline
@Anon 9:45 - ... stated that it was called a flash sideways and it shows it what would have happened if Flight 815 did not crash. Anyone else remember this?
Since this was the unified belief that Farraday gave the Losties--they all pulled together to reset/undo th past. What we learned last night was you cannot undo what has been done. Since they all believed it was possible, we ar shown SW land as how they might have perceived thier futures would have changed. This explains the overtly cheesy dialogue at times. The only problem I have with SW land is why would Jin/Sun have played out thier SW story with a shot to the gut? Other than that I get it.
@ anon:
I disagree about purgatory. I don't think that's what sideways land is at all. Isn't purgatory more about punishment? I think the situations they were put in in sideways land were built for them to rediscover/remember. I think without desmonds help they would have eventually.
What a sweet ending... Yes, I'm a little disappointed in a few things. For one thing, I felt sorry for the MIB and would have liked to see him at peace. Also, a little more detail about the light that needed to be protected and its impact on the world or humanity (does the world end??).. I think the writers could have given us a little more about that. But I'm happy with the ending and THE ISLAND EXISTED people!! Brilliant story with a beautiful message about life and connections with others. We had sci-fi, fantasy, romance, mythology, whew!! What a great ride, I'm sad it's over.
Peace to all..
Just wanted to address the questions about why people can die in sideways time, like Keamy. It is a real place to our Losties, a place they created to find each other again and then move on. The Keamy we see in sideways was probably not Keamy's actual 'soul.' I say this because I don't think he was ever redeemed so he is probably stuck on the island like Michael. It's like he was real to the Losties in sideways land because everything that happened there happened in order to bring them all together in the end.
Also, someone asked if David wasn't real then why could people see him? He wasn't real in 'reality' or island time. But in this sideways reality he was real to them, but never actually existed. Does that make sense? It does in my head...
And I agree that Ben was redeemed. He and Hurley remained on the island protecting it. They got Desmond off the island (in my opinion... because I think Ben or somebody mentioned that the first thing they could do was to figure out how to get Desmond home... he said Jacob's rules might not apply anymore so maybe there was a way to get Desmond off the island).
^ I only mention the Desmond thing because a previous post was a complaint that Desmond was still stuck on the island.
One thing I am confused about - if Jughead did not go off (which I always doubted since Juliette was right next to it and she was still alive afterwards!) then why was there a huge hole there?
1. The hole was there because the electromagnetism was going off and sucking everything down into it. It created a very damaged location that looked wrecked.
2. The Losties weren't trying to blow up a nuclear bomb (which would have killed everyone on the island). What they were actually setting off were the EMP aspects of the bomb. That part of the bomb...not the actual bomb itself. All nukes have or create a electromagnetic pulse. EMP's have been around since the 40's.
EMP is not quite the same thing as a nuke going off.
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C Cuse
expect LONG comments by me once it is posted
edge of your seats? lol
I keep going between the island being real and the island beign purgatory from Jack's perspective.
I get that it was a sci-fi show and weird stuff can happen BUT if the island was real then the "happy ever after in heaven" ending was really cornball. And they seriously went with an entire series' worth of Flash Sideways to lead to it?!!
It just seems to make more sense that the island time would be purgatory because it all seems to head towards Jack's resolution as a soul. He then gets to move on into the Sideways congregation room.
The purgatory thing just doesn't work with Christian's speech though. But then what about the scattered remains of the original plane that the panned across in the final credits?
AAARRGGHHH! I guess they made it ambiguous on purpose. I for one prefer the ending of Purgatory from Jack's view but hey, what do i know!
Matt
Another comment about Jughead... I think it did go off, but it kind of negated the electromagnetism that was being released. So maybe it didn't actually 'explode' but it did cause a reaction with the massive amount of energy being released that it kind of fixed time... sending those who belonged in 2004 back to 2004 (someone who knows about science should supplement my theory haha).
I'm shocked no one has mentioned the first 7 minutes, Star Wars reference...Yoda, good times as MikeV would say :-)
You call yourselves Losties, lol
Crash - Can you just go to sideways comment land for a bit - thanks.
I think M. Night Shaymalan's Sixth Sense sceen would have played better if it would have happened when Jack Hugged Kate.
and
If anyone in here (thisblog)
would have sugested this ending two weeks ago
they would have been shredded by the regulars
(and no Anon Im not trying to take credit)
"Another comment about Jughead... I think it did go off, but it kind of negated the electromagnetism that was being released. So maybe it didn't actually 'explode' but it did cause a reaction with the massive amount of energy being released that it kind of fixed time... sending those who belonged in 2004 back to 2004 (someone who knows about science should supplement my theory haha).
Look up what an 'EMP' bomb is.
All nukes creates secondary EMP properties. And if a part of the bomb that only creates the EMP aspects is set off, it does not necessarily create physical damage around it's detonation. Only electronic pulse damage. The primary victim of the blast would be the island's electromagnetic waves being shot out. Nullifying it.
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C Cuse
so...forgive me I'm not a diehard, diehard fanatic...but I do love the show! If this was already covered, sorry.....
Does anyone think Hurley was the orchestrator of Sideways-ville? Ben told him at the end that as the island protector he could make his own rules, maybe there was a better way to do it than how Jacob did, and that he would do what he does best - I think it was "bringing people together" or "making people happy" or something like that.
That makes Hurley the hero again, which in my mind is a good ending!
Anytime anyone even said the P-Word
they Imediately got thier face on Americas Most wanted
(me included I didnt think Purgatory was actually Purgatory)
I think it's really sad that people are saying that the Dharma, time travel, and other island-related things were unnecessary stories. Wow. Those are the exact things that brought these people to the island!! And the Jacob/MIB storyline... was told so that we would see how amazingly crazy this island is, so that we could see that Hurley and Ben needed to stay (#1 and #2) to protect it, and so that we would see why these people were brought to the island. I am ok with MIB not getting any peace. He killed a lot of people, including Jacob (through Ben)... he didn't deserve peace in my opinion.
Another tear-jerker: Jack is laying there dying but smiles because he sees the plane and knows Kate is safe. Awww...........
Everything island, flashback, and flashforward was REAL and very very important! I am looking forward to Mike's recap, maybe he will help us all see this.
And the 'church congregation' at the end being cheesy? I thought it was beautiful. Although I don't believe in this idea of purgatory and their means of going to Heaven (I am a Christian, I believe the only way to Heaven is to believe in Jesus as your Savior), I thought it was very spiritual and representative of the fact that we are all searching for something and moving toward something wonderful (hopefully). Wow. :)
@Marie
"It is a real place to our Losties, a place they created to find each other again."
and then move on."
Nice..
So Desmond was the Reaper!
Gary H
. Nuclear electromagnetic bombs have three distinct time components that result from different physical phenomena. Effects of an EMP device depend on the altitude of the detonation, energy yield, interactions with the earth's magnetic field, and shielding of targets
Can we get to the
Flanner OConnor book?
Anonymous said...
Because: 1) When Desmond entered the smoke monster was inside fake John Locke. 2) Jack didn't turn into the smoke monster because when he entered, the 'essence' of the island (light, etc..) had already been sealed off, there was nothing there to do anything to him.
Why the assumption that there can be only one smoke monster?
Why when Jack plugged the light up again didn't he turn?
The smoke monster could 'appear' to be anything he wanted. It was magic. He could only 'physically' return to the living (not an apparition) when taking over a dead body. Like his former self or John Locke.
Boone held Shannon in his arms in that seen. Thus a physical form.
Thanks for the reply
@Gidget - Well stated anwsers to thsoe questions. Unfortunately they will only lead to more questions--LOL.
Maybe, folks should stait out into an imaginary ocean and let the finale marinate a little before getting un-corked ;-)
@Crash - Funnt sixth sense reference, I was thinking the same thing with Christian.
I also, got a LOTR feeling where in the closing scene everyone is leaving to board a ship.
Still trucking along on this recap. Island story (except end) is done. In Sideways: Sayid and Shannon are in the know...I'm moving on! LOL Sawyer is headed to the Hospital....here we go!
I would have liked to see what happened to Walt and why he seemed so special. Early on in the series it seemed as if he was part of the master plan and then he just wasn't.
Canidate
The Goodship Dharma-pop?
sorry Snafu
i was talking to you
Snafu
Maybe they all got on the
Starship SS Donkey-Wheel
Why did Jack get cuts on him in the sideways the exact time he did on the island? If they are all dead in the sideways, why does Desmond see the flash sideways?(does he go to being dead to being alive?).
Its funny how everyone wants to use the christian slant of purgatory. Wasn't it called the Dharma initiative in the show? I would think it was a kind of bardo state they were in or maybe just a different reality(like a past life but a future life if that makes sense). They then woke up due to Desmond's help.
Good analogy to our lives now, we never know how we are all connected. Someone you just met might have been you best friend in a past life. Makes you think twice about how you treat people. We never know the connections we really could have to the people we come into contact with. Seeing Desmond's episode where he "wakes up" was very eye opening. If we all understood how connected we were and that this is just a temporary phase of our overall existence, we wouldn't take everything so seriously.
My opinion on Walt:
The producers said we could draw an assumption on Walt and why he was special in the finale. Close to the end Ben apologized to Locke for everything he did to him. He said he was jealous of Locke because Locke was special and he was not. So, I think that in season 1, the others and Ben saw that Walt was special. Ben didn't want Walt there as a threat, maybe someone who would take over as leader one day, so he got him off the island.
As to why Walt was special, I don't think that answer matters. The MIB talked about being special as a boy and we just kind of accepted it. Let's accept that Walt was just cool.
Also, I'm kind of glad that Walt wasn't in this finale, especially at the end where they all end up together. I'm glad because I think this means that in real life, Walt went on to live an amazing life. The most important part of his life was not his time on the island, as it was for those people gathered in the church. So yay that Walt got to live a great life! (in my opinion that is hehe)
"I would have liked to see what happened to Walt and why he seemed so special. Early on in the series it seemed as if he was part of the master plan and then he just wasn't."
This isn't a mystery.
Sometimes when writing a TV show that spans seven years, things don't come together perfectly when writing the story. Even notice how in 'Harry Potter' the school's head wizard, the actor, changed between movies? The actor died. Similar issues here. The actor who portrayed Walt got to big, to soon and that threw off the script. He couldn't be fit in with how it was originally intended. So some improvising was needed. The plot had to be tweaked a little.
It's TV. It's not perfect.
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C Cuse
@vallen - MIB was is peace, or should we say pieces, in the end. He should have muttered a thank you before getting kicked off the cliff.
Buddist' and Hidus dont have Purgatory the have reincarnation.
Geez Mike ! Where are ya ? ;-D
I was very satisfied with last night's series finale. I thought it fit with the style of this last season. Some wrapping up, some questions answered. The finale brought many pieces together as couples were connected and we learned the big picture of the whole series. I took it that the characters died in the plane crash and went to purgatory (or limbo) as the island and worked out redemption for themselves before moving on to heaven. (You can see more of my thoughts on my blog: zookyworld.wordpress.com). Thanks to the writers of Lost! You guys did an awesome job!
you're not carlton cuse. stop it.
Christians also don't have purgatory, except Catholics. We believe you die then go to heaven or hell, depending on your belief or denial of Christ. No "purgatory" needed.
I think the producers left the ending open to all religions, and we can draw our own conclusions on what sideways world was based on our own beliefs. Great job Damon and Carlton!!
(so let's try not to offend each other!)
@MikeV - I think you're going to hit your 700 before your recap is posted.....good job brutha!
YODA< hello, good times.
Maybe if a phrase the question in some Inane way I can get an answer.
Do you think Desmond would have read Evrything that Rises must Converge?
Or do you think he would have just looked at the cover?
SOOO confused....need your insights :)
Oh no! I reached the quota on posting pictures!!! I don't know what to do for the rest of the recap! lol
SOOO confused.....questions not answered....trying to put the pieces together but need your help....thank you for all the help :)
Okay guys the whole panning of the original crash site was just that, a view of the original crash site. It was always there! As soon as we learned the light was near the bamboo forest near the original beach site you had to wonder if they were going to come somewhat full circle, but sheesh not THAT full circle.
They were all dead?? Really people come on?
Gwen
Maybe they were all in the Heavens Gate cult and were just waiting for the Hale-Bop Comet to pass by.
"Maybe if a phrase the question in some Inane way I can get an answer.
Do you think Desmond would have read 'Everything that Rises must Converge'? Or do you think he would have just looked at the cover?
Desmond is a fictional character in a story. I have no clue what he would have or would not have read. From my perspective, it wasn't important to the plot. The reference to the above said book was there as more as a literary device for more insight into things. But more than the book, the original source of it is more important. The reference to a work by the French philosopher Pierre Teilhard De Chardin.... "Omega Point": and it's quote...." Remain true to yourself, but move ever upward toward greater consciousness and greater love! At the summit you will find yourselves united with all those who, from every direction, have made the same ascent. For everything that rises must converge"
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C Cuse
i don't know if anyone has mentioned this but wouldn't a Hurley/Ben running the island be a great spinoff???
Just scanned over some other blogs... so many people believe that at the point of the plane crash in 2004 everyone died and went to sideways time. Not only is there no evidence to support this but it would also mean that this is the dumbest TV show I've ever watched!
The first 5 seasons were real. People really died, people really were alive and getting off the island and coming back to the island. At the point when they died, then they went to the sideways world. So, Boone went in season 1. Sun and Jin went last week. Shannon went in season 2 (I think). Jack went last night. And Kate/Sawyer and everyone who left the island last night died at later points in their life, which we will not see. What we see is that, whenever they die, they go to the sideways world at the point when their paths came together: on Oceanic 815.
Whoever posted that they think Hurley and Ben changed the rules and somehow created the sideways time so that after death they could all come together (Anonymous 12:49 pm): awesome! I'm totally behind that theory. Hurley is a hero!
First I want to say I wish I found your blog sooner! It's amazing.
I loved & hated the show. It was great that I got the wrap up I needed and hated it because the show is over. I'm bummed it's over(I think a little to much:).
@ Marie - thanks, from anonymous at 12:49 - I needed that bit of validation! Seems right to me too.
yeah we get the content of FLanney's book it was inspired by Pierre Teilhard de Chardin's book the Phenomenon of Man
which is where she got the quote you posted
Im just saying that as far as content being an EASTER EGG and not just the Title
What Dreams may Come
would have worked better
"Whoever posted that they think Hurley and Ben changed the rules and somehow created the sideways time so that after death they could all come together (Anonymous 12:49 pm): awesome! I'm totally behind that theory. Hurley is a hero!
That's a nice theory but completely implausible and never the intention of the plot. One can easily deduce that from listening to Jacob's conversation with Richard. Jacob did NOT have the powers to bring people back from the dead (remember the beach conversation?). Nor did Jacob have the abilities to traverse time or create new time realities. And if he didn't have them....he most certainly also wasn't able to bestow those abilities on his successors.
Sorry, but it doesn't work.
I loved the finale because it is the end. I now never have to watch that frustrating show ever again.
Gwen. I thought the spanning out at the end was to show that the plane crash debris was still there and undisturbed. Didn't they use a lot of it at the camp? How many times in he last five seasons did we see the crash site like that? I can't think of any which makes me think that they were dead from the crash which is why they showed it. It looked fresh and not like it had been there for a while. The clothes were clean etc.
This WAS always a nice friendly place to give opinions and read others. Every one gave an opinion - then let it go - and no one ridiculed other peoples opinions. No arguing, no bickering - just enjoying eachothers view points.
Now that this is our finale blog can we all just go back to that? Please ? Make your point - then let it go. Don't be mean or derisive of others.
We all enjoy the show and enjoy tlaking about the show - don't ruin it for the rest of us.
@crashriprock LOL
Unless maybe they found some way to move those massive engines. Lapidus did fix a window in the rain so who knows. :P
If this is the real C Cuse
here is a pitch for you
How about a show about the real purgatory It could take place in a Womens Halfway House and each week you could introduce a new charater that gets to work her problems out.
I have a script fromm 1995 that might fit.
Maybe I am just sad to see it go, but better than Seinfeld's, but not near as good as M*A*S*H
and just in case your are the real C Cuse
and just in case you want to see my script
(not holding my breathe)
You can email me at
lapeduslives@yahoo.com
gallo said...
"Maybe I am just sad to see it go, but better than Seinfeld's, but not near as good as M*A*S*H"
*********************************
Do you think Radar ended up in LA lol
I loved the finale (more since everyone else's perspective is helping me understand some things). I love your blog, and I'm trying to wait patiently for this recap. I'm getting nothing done at work today. I think I will go get some lunch.
On a serious note, I did for a second think that Jack was going to turn into the smoke monster when he was in the light. I'm not really sure why he didn't, but I'm thinking it has something to do with good vs. evil. I don't know. I really don't grasp the importance of Eloise and Widmore. I guess that's my biggest complaint. They just seemed to me that they would be so much more important, but that's ok with me. I can just accept it as it is.
I would also say that you can't spend six years watching a show with lethal black smoke and polar bears and people who never get old, etc. etc. etc. etc. and then expect the writers to tie it in to something concrete. I don't really get the whole "What is the island?" question everyone keeps griping about. It's an island where strange things happen, the core of the good in the world. It's magical, closer to God, closer to evil. Just accept it. What do you want the island to be? Good grief.
@Anon 1:33 pm, good point!
They come. They fight. They destroy. They corrupt. It always ends the same.
Darn blogees gotta ruin it for the rest of us. Now, where's Vincent, I gotta walk the dog.
I loved it! Loved it.
I re-watched the last 10 minutes this morning just to hear the Christian/Jack talk again and to confirm that we could only see the belly of the plane that flew overhead right before Jack died. My initial thought last night was this is open to 2 interpretations:
It was Ajira 316 with Lapidus, Miles, Richard, Claire, Sawyer and Kate on it (literal interpretation), or
It was Sideways 815 and Jack saw it and smiled right before he died and joined it (Sideways interpretation). I don't think you can convince me otherwise at this point AND I don't think you can tell me which plane it was. Awesome.
So detonating Jughead last year did NOT create the Sideways world. It only sent them all back to 2007. Sideways land was created by the characters as a means to "move on". I have no problem with that at all. In fact, I think it was genius.
And as a person who loves to re-watch every episode 5 times and, as the artsy English major that I am, I am really happy about Season 6 now. I can now watch every episode from the season and try to interpret what the Sideways characters were doing/thinking in order to help them move on. For instance, why did Jack create a world where he has a son with Juliet? How did that help him deal with unresolved issues so that he could 'let go'? My initial thought is that it helped him deal with his daddy issues.
But that's just one example. I need to watch all that stuff again now and will enjoy doing it. Love Lost. It was an awesome journey and easily the best network TV show ever (think how edgy it could have been on HBO/Showtime/FX)
An opinion from another newbie to the Lost blog world, and I did watch every episode, though not nearly in as much detail as the true Losties.
What makes the most sense to me is that Jack was the only survivor of the crash, but only for a minute or so. During that time that he lay dying, everything else in the series transpired. Furthermore, the island is Purgatory, complete with a gateway to Hell (the stone plug containing the brimstone fires), and the Sideways world is the gateway to Heaven. Everything can happen in that minute because time doesn't exist in those worlds, "there is no now, here".
I suspect the idea for Lost started with wondering what happens to the souls of people who die in a plane crash? Assuming belief in such things as soul, Heaven, Hell and Purgatory, would all of them go immediately to Heaven or Hell? What would happen if many of them were destined for Purgatory? I think that Lost is a fantasy about those souls who wound up in Purgatory, and had to redeem themselves by fighting evil (The smoke monster, the devil?)
I may be ignoring conflicting details, but it seems to me that once you accept that, everything is possible in that minute without needing earthly explanations.
I am not a believer in the afterlife, but I loved both the series and especially the last episode.
I think it may be C. Cuse... very insightful and with a defensive tone in his respones. So the sideways land and the island are two unrelated "realms"?
Amazing Grace, "I once was LOST, but now am found, was blind but now I see," mixed with an Alice in Wonderland non-sensical journey that ultimately lead to Jack's salvation. That's my take on it. I don't need all the answers....I just followed along and enjoyed the ride. For me personally, LOST has been my all-time favorite show. I mostly loved it and sometimes hated it, but how a lot things are in life. A big thank-you to ABC, the writers, actors, and everyone else who made LOST possible.
maybe the second to last shot could have had
Bob Denver saying to Alan Dale
"let go skipper..let gooooo."
"the creators set up all these mysteries and made it so they never had to bother answering the questions that arose...very lazy scriptwriting. Yes the characters were interesting but so was all the plotlines with Hanso, the Dharma Initiative, the Egyptian statue etc. that were never cleared up."
This befuddles me. Never cleared up?
- The Egyptian statue was answered. It's mystery was filed under 'why is it there' and that answer was clearly explained. It was there because the Island has been around since the dawn of mankind. It represented antiquity, how old the island was and it's protectors. What are people looking for here? How people rolled the stones up onto place? What building materials were used?
- Dharma was answered. Dharma was just yet another example of outsiders coming to the island. The represented a long line of examples of 'they come, they corrupt, they destroy'. What made Dharma relevant to the plot was that their buildings (ie, the hatch) would come into play and be directly relevant to the plotlines of the actual main characters. Really now, what more needs answered with them? Do people want a whole episode on every character from the camp? There is no mystery whatsoever.
I'm lost at what type of answers people want.
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C Cuse
I loved it!
WOW!
I don't understand how satellites work, but I still watch TV. I don't know the names of the people that built my TV, or anything about them, but it still transmits my show. I don't know Josh Holloway personally, but I still cried when he said, "Juliette?"
I have read and somewhat understand The Bardo Thodel, so it makes perfect sense to me. I suppose it is the book everyone needs to read now if you still can't wrap your mind around it.
I found it beautiful, satisfying, emotional and liberating.
Not Purgatory Sideways was a Bardo. I should have known, Namaste should have been the ultimate hint but I was not yet ready.
Rose telling Jack, "You can let go now." in the first flash sideways, absolutely brilliant!
WOW! WOW! WOW!
I love it!
I loved it!
I will love it!
I am angrier that I thought Darlton were going to be interviewed on Jimmy Kimmel and my son and I stayed up and watched that. He was so tired and we were both so drained from crying and the Kimmel was a let down for me.
Thank you Mike for putting up the 'discuss until the recap is ready'. I am really looking forward to your recap, I hope that you take your time and get to savor The End before having to dissect it!
I am so happy right now it is silly!
The finale definitely needed time to sink in and process but what I loved about the finale was I got to chance to see all the characters together (closure). Read an interesting point of view on http://www.nychdr.com/lost/#comments
If you are C Cuse
Dont go down the literary road.
Just talk about big explosions and girls in bikinis .. lol
Didn't Walt appear in a flashback last night? Maybe that was the writers way of getting Walt "in" the final episode, because surely he's too big now to have pulled it off!
Can't wait for Mike's recap and screenshots, wondering about that beach site now. LOL
Great points!!
Also sorry if I offended anyone, didn't mean to get carried away.
First off, it's really infuriating to read some of these comments. I don't understand how people can think that they died in the plane crash/with the bomb/etc. Christian made it very clear that the Island timeline happened and everyone died at different times. Mike, I completely agree that that's not up for interpretation.
Anyhow, here's my take on the flash sideways. Perhaps I'm wrong but it really helped me reconcile an ending I wasn't sure about initially. I agree with the idea of a "waiting place" that does not have a sense of time. I just think that the stories within that timeline can be explained further. I think that in this "waiting place" they were each given the opportunity to "live" their lives as if the Island had never influenced them. Sure it existed since Ben had been on it and it could be seen at the bottom of the ocean, but it didn't play the same role that it did in their real lives.
Christian said that the Island was the most important time in their lives. I think that the sideways timeline served as a comparison for them before they could move on. They saw what would have happened if the Island (as the powerful character it was) didn't exist in their lives. Then, when they were ready to move on, they remembered their true realities. This allowed them to realize the importance of the Island within their own lives. After that, they could all move on together.
Lost has been a great ride, and I think the show was great! Really awesome!
But I didn't really like the whole flash sideways bit (because of its convergence). I just don't understand the logic behind the sideway land! Meeting place with parallel lives and children that don't exist? Call it an alternate universe, another incarnation, but a meeting place? An alternative life is not a meeting place!
And Jack spent 10 years with Juliet without any flash sideways, he operates on Lock, meets Claire and nothing. But only one touch on Kate and NOW he remembers. Really? Ok, she was the love of his life. A decent argument. But was Shannon the love of Sayid's life? Oh, Nadia was just a distraction, the hot blonde who the had a thing with for a week (and we're not even sure her feelings were ever real) is the love of his life. Shannon is the one he wanted alive the whole of last season! I didn't buy that!
I just had so much faith in the writers and producers, that they would have a great reasoning behind the whole sideway thing... But I was disappointed with that part. And why wasn't Faraday and Charlotte going with them? I'm still confused why were some people with them and not others. Didn't Michael redeem himself by going back, spying on Witmore's people and sacrificing himself for the ones on the island?
I, like many of you cannot understand why some people think that the whole show was purgatory. But my husband have a question that I have no answer for. Why did they show the wreckage at the end? My husband thinks that it is not Oceanic 815 (because the turbine that exploded on 815 was intact or something). He thinks it means that Lapidus, Kate, etc crashed and died before getting to mainland. Anyone have any opinions on that?
Coming this Fall to ABC
Hurley and Bens Lost Marrige Island
Hurley brings couples to the Island who are having marrige problems and Ben can be the Scap-Monster.
@Anonymous saying that Hurley and Ben couldn't have created the sideways world:
You said this isn't plausible because Jacob said you can't bring people back from the dead. Well, no one was brought back from the dead. Everyone in sideways land is dead, it is a form of afterlife. No one was brought back from the dead. But in their death, they were all brought together so that they could move on from their lives and everything that happened to them. I think that Hurley and Ben are smart enough to figure out how to do this! :) Just a theory though...
I think Crash and C Cuse are the same poster and since no one will play with Crash any more he's just arguing with himself now. j/k ! LOL
The last episode showed us the message the writers were trying to convey in this show which is that the important things in life are your relationships, your abilit to get and accept forgiveness and redemption. (and none of us are beyond redemption -just look at Ben). It also emphasized that what you do in your life will effect your eternity.
Also, someone posted that the writers never answered what the purpose of the island was - I totally disagree. The purpose of the island is the "light" - which is the "source of life" according to crazy fake mother. If this light is gone life will be gone. So... the light had to be protected. MIB was the immediate threat, but even when he dies that doesn't end all threats to the light. Crazy fake mother said that man can't handle the light, they always want more. That leads me to beleive that there will always be a threat of someone finding the light and seeking to use it's power for evil and ultimately destory it. In order to preserve life there will always be a need to protect the light.
I think if people focus on the themes of the show rather than every little detail they will start to see the show answered most of the really important questions. And although sideways world turned out to be purgatory I still think the writers were right in saying that the show wasn't really about life or death. It was about relationships that are special and important enough to be eternal and about figuring out who you are.
@Anonymous (2:11pm)
I think that the wreckage at the end was supposed to be Flight 815. First, in the sideways timeline, Kate tells Jacks that she's missed him for a long time. I don't think that would be the case if she died so soon after him. Also, I think that the last scene panning across the wreckage is supposed to be symbolic. There are no survivors because they had all moved on.
Yeah Im making posts as C Cuse then making fun of myself.
that makes sense
@Anonymous 2:11 pm:
I think that Daniel and Charlotte weren't going with them in the end because they weren't ready. Charlotte wasn't in the know, in my opinion. And, like Eloise, I think Daniel realized what he needed to realize but wasn't ready to let go. I think he wanted more time with Charlotte since she died so suddenly on the island. And apparently Michael didn't redeem himself... he appeared to Hurley and told him that he is trapped on the island (hence, the whispers).
Regarding why did Jack not turn into smoke monster #2, I though it had to do with greed. Jacob's "mother" said greedy people would want the light and if they tried to get it, they would put it out. So the greed in MIB turned him into smoke. However Jack (and Desmond for that matter) were not there with greed, they didn't want the light for themselves, they wanted to save and protect the light, so they were not turned into smoke.
Just my theory...
if that were true
Wouldnt I bring the second Bi-polar bear in "Special" being MIB?
Remember "Across the Sea" which was the episode that explained Jacob and the Man in Black. After that episode everyone seemed to be in an uproar because although the entire thing was about answers people people did not agree with. The producers have said that people will always react more to character resolution than answers. So, if the finale was all answers people would disagree and complain about them a la "Across the Sea."
I agree with Mike the island is definitely real and the sideways world is purgatory. Christian says "everything you experience was real" or something like that. Also, to the people saying the sideways world was heaven why did Desmond keep saying he wanted to "move on" with the other characters. Move on where? There is no step after heaven.
As for some of the questions I've figured out lame answers. I think the statue was used mostly as a time reference. When the Black Rock crashed and the statue was complete you knew it was fairly long ago. Also, they may have not brought back Walt because the actor is like 8 feet tall now.
Overall I loved the finale so many parts were tributes to the fans! I will miss LOST deeply.
I didn't like the ending; however it really does symbolize redemption. Go back and listen to Jack's father. All these people were real, the island was real. All of them died, but not in the plane crash. They really were on the island. When they did die, they waited for each other. Some took longer to realize they died, but eventually, they all died. They all waited for each other to go in to the light together. Not the best ending, but because of what they went through, they gathered with the people who made them the happiest.
My top 30 questions
•Why was MIB black smoke?
•What do the numbers mean?
•Why didnt MIB have a name?
•Why would someone build a lighthouse?
•Why wouldn't MIB just kill all the dharma people before they installed the fences?
•What became of Lapetis, Sawyer, Kate and Richard. Did they live long, happy lives or did their plane crash before making it to land?
•Did everyone died on impact when 815 crashed>
•but why did they present all of these questions throughout the seasons and
•Why did the island move at where did it go?
•Why was the dharma there?
•Why were Richards people there ("others")?
•What happened to walt and his dad?
•Why was penny and julia in the church at the end when there were not on 815?
•who built the statue & why?
•Why was the Island shown as sunken at the beginning of this season for the sideways world?
•Why were the children taken in season 1?
•Why the time traveling?
•What is THE GAME and THE RULES?
•Who really is Eloise and why did she have a Dharma station in LA?
•What happened to Richard when he left the Island?
•Is Ben the new protector of the Island?
•Was Whidmore a good guy or a bad guy and what happened to him in the Sideways World?
•Why did Claire abandon Aaron?
•What caused the bad luck for hurley?
•Why did Smokey kill Eko?
•What’s up w/ Walt’s special powers?
•Why did the others want walt?
•Why was Faraday crying about FT 815?
•How come you’re safe from Smokey if you spread ashes around you?
•Did I waste the last 6 years of my life?
What we have is a set up and conflict that lasted up until the last five minutes of the show.
Then we got a flash of all the resolutions that we didnt know were resolutions until the end .
"And Jack spent 10 years with Juliet without any flash sideways, he operates on Lock, meets Claire and nothing. But only one touch on Kate and NOW he remembers. Really?"
Yes, really. You are forgetting one key point in your synopsis. Time doesn't exist in the Purgatory. It just is. For all we know, Jack's consciousness just 'appeared' there like a dream and he was just living out that altered reality for just that one week in the sequence. The rest of the backfiller was just that...backfilled into his sequence. There is no time.
An example. You have a dream. It's very vivid and real about something. Do you literally have to dream about all the backstory which made the dream so real? No. It just is there. And what seems like hours in a dream, is in most reality more like minutes. Time has no place there.
Hope that helps.
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C Cuse
Keith and Gigi
you are going to have to wait for the
Prequal-trilogy
Starring Richardo Montalban and Herve' Villechaize
I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around the concept. I've spent the last few seasons theorizing and now it looks like I'm just going to have to accept it for what it is. I'm just curious as to when the sideways world began. Did characters, such as Jack, exist in the sideways world before they died? Or did they just randomly pop into the sideways world after meeting their demise?
Why is Aaron an infant?
Ahhh I think I'm thinking too much.
Jeez Crash... enough zingers here? I thought I was reading the CrashRipRock comedy tour. Are you just seeing how many jokes you can post?
Wheres the recap I'm dying here!!!!
so C Cuse
what you are saying is
What Dreams may Come
Would have worked
Well Weasel
Once upon a time in a blog far far away... I tryed to be serious....
The sideways world is not under the constraints of time. It's not like it is actually 2004 and Jack died in 2007 so went back in time 3 years to sideways world. It is where they crossed-over to whenever they did die. It doesn't matter when the sideways world began, because you can't put a date on it. We can theorize that maybe Hurley went on to create it. We can theorize that it has always been there. The point is that after the Losties died, they crossed-over into this reality where they can find each other and be happy and move on. I choose to believe that they didn't randomly pop into the sideways world. Christian told Jack in the church that this is a place they created. So I buy into the Hurley created it theory. But don't dwell on what year they are in or when it started or if they were always there. What matters is that they were with each other in the end. Lost has always been a character-based show, and it ended that way... beautifully.
This ending was such an easy way out. Seriously they could have written ANYTHING into ANY episode and just decided not to explain it. They just made up the most random stuff they could think of and just left us hanging because even they could not explain it. It is BS that they knew how this was going to end, or maybe they knew Jack would die, but the rest of the 100 hours of Lost were complete BS and I feel cheated.
Put me down as loving the episode. I haven't cried watching TV in a long time but this one got me. One note I haven't seen mentioned that indidates that the Agira plane got home safely, was when Kate saw Jack she expressed how much she missed him. This coming off the rock scene where she asked if she'd ever see him again led me to think that she'd probably lived a full life and her seeing him in sideways world was at least to her many, many years later.
Keith & Gigi: Although I feel like you are being facetious in the questions you are asking, because some of them definitely have been answered ... here's the real question: Would the story which has been told, be any different if you learned the answers to these questions: i.e., does giving MIB a name change the story?? Does knowing if Richard and Kate and Sawyer and Frank crashed leaving the island, change the overall story?? This is precisely why they didn't answer some questions, because the overall story didn't require those things to be answered. They told a specific story, and finished that specific story. All these questions you are 'asking' are all needed to be answered for different stories, not the one they wanted to tell. If you focus on what story they were telling, then you can see how it all came together was pretty fitting.
That being said, is it frustrating to me that some questions weren't answered? I guess, if I want to be nit-picky, but I guess I took the story they were telling, bought into it, and understood why/how they ended it the way they did. I think we all need to look at it from that perspective before we get bent out of shape for them not telling us 30 complete stories (to mirror your 30 questions) when it seems they wanted to tell one, and did so.
I hope that if you re-watch the finale, and/or the entire series for that matter, you may find you didn't waste 6 years. At least I hope not ...
I think it's funny how some of the posters here fill in the gaps with their own interpretation and are surprised that others don't see it the same way.
While I can understand that there is room for interpretation, it would have been much cleaner to make more logistical sense of some of the stories.
My biggest issue is that way back in Season 1, Darlton said in one of their first podcasts that everything is and will be explained. They denounced the idea that this was purgatory and that Walt would play a huge part in the final story.
That's like telling a fat kid that there's cake for dessert and then celery arrives at the table.
I luv those Egyptians. They were crazy people.
"Did characters, such as Jack, exist in the sideways world before they died? Or did they just randomly pop into the sideways world after meeting their demise?
Why is Aaron an infant?Ahhh I think I'm thinking too much.
Yes, you are thinking to hard. Stop thinking in terms of 'time'. Stop thinking in terms of linear progression of time (ie, 10:01, 10:02, etc..)
Time doesn't exist in Purgatory (i use that loosely). It just is. An example. Perhaps Jack's consciousness awakened in there at the point of the season six opener...while he was on the plane. The rest of that altered world (his child, wife, etc..) were sort of his consciousness's instantaneous creation to try and 'fix' his real life. He just kind of dropped into that reality. A reality he was unaware of UNTIL Desmond helped him wake up and then be able to be happy and move on.
and because time doesn't exist there, everyone can 'arrive' and be there in the same reality.
Make sense?
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C Cuse
Instead of being a place exclusively for punishment, Purgatory is "a place & a life" where one is able to work out character flaws, with others who also have imperfections, and achieve self harmony while struggling with self, relationships based on trust and belief, and combating the forces of evil, resulting in a pure state which consists of one's best attributes and allows the person to pass into the next realm of perfect light. I got it, I buy it, I loved it. Don't need all the answers but it will still be fun to figure out.
I am feeling so depressed about the ending. It is as if PhD.s wrote the entire series and high school students wrote the finale. I hated how Jack meets Christian who reveals that Jack is dead.. so done before. But I really love all the characters and the fact they all found redemption.
My favorite scene was probably the Sawyer/Juliette reunion.
The SW world seems to have gone on for quite a while after Hurley took over from Jack. Allowing the others to "arrive". Ben/Hurley came to SW land after Jack, but awoke before.
BubbleBoy74 said...My biggest issue is that way back in Season 1, Darlton said in one of their first podcasts that everything is and will be explained. They denounced the idea that this was purgatory
And the island wasn't Purgatory. So what was said was 100% factually correct and accurate.
What is the problem?
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C Cuse
Other questions left unanswered:
How did the killer of Sawyer's parents appear on the island and Sawyer beat him up??
How did Jack's father keep appearing on the island??
How did Ben know everything about everyone who was on the plane when it crashed?
Why were no babies allowed to be born on the island?
Why was Claire's baby born on the island?
Why did Ben want more babies born on the island?
Why did Desmond have to push the button?
Why did the MIB have to bring back Locke to the island to go in his body?
What was so special about Locke to begin with?
Why did Charlotte find a Dharma initiative medallion in the middle of the desert?
How did Charlotte live on the island before?
Why did Eloise send them all back?
Why did Whitmore care so much about the island?
What happened to the rest of the people on the plane that actually died on the island?
The list could go on and on!!! Lost, so stupid!!! Just made up BS in every episode!!
Great ending now the entire show reminds me of Amzing Grace.
Amazing Grace, how sweet the sound,
That saved a wretch like me.
I once was lost but now am found,
Was blind, but now I see.
T'was Grace that taught my heart to fear.
And Grace, my fears relieved.
How precious did that Grace appear
The hour I first believed.
Through many dangers, toils and snares
I have already come;
'Tis Grace that brought me safe thus far
and Grace will lead me home.
The Lord has promised good to me.
His word my hope secures.
He will my shield and portion be,
As long as life endures.
Yea, when this flesh and heart shall fail,
And mortal life shall cease,
I shall possess within the veil,
A life of joy and peace.
When we've been here ten thousand years
Bright shining as the sun.
We've no less days to sing God's praise
Than when we've first begun.
one of the keys to understanding that sideways is purgatory and the island was real and that our losties might have lived long lives after that is when Kate tells Jack at the concert "God I've missed you". This shows that she probably went on to live a long life without Jack who obviously died on the island and is very excited to finally see him again
I love how people are saying of is so clear why can't you understand that the island is real. There is about 25% of the people disagreeing at least. Until you can answer how Jack Kate Hurley saywer etc can all be in the alt world purgatory and still be alive on the island at the same time, you are wrong!!!!
I'm the type of viewer that always has to figure it out, but with this ending I actually feel content. I LOVED IT!!! I really couldn't have pictured a better way to wrap it all up. No complaints. I only hope there will ever be another show that will engage me in the same way.
What I will say is that the way that I understood the ending was this: the sideways timeline was purgatory, but the island was real. When jack was laying in the bamboo forest dying, he watched as his friends plane took off above him. This wasn't him dying after his own plane crash. Also, at the very, very end they show stills of the original plane crash, the plane has obviously been there for some time and it looks as though it is on the island. It's not as if they crashed in Australia and then hallucinated the rest, I definitely think it was all real. Christian Shephard said that some died before him (Jack), and some died after. But that this (sideways land) was a place that they could all meet (to move on). At first I completely thought that they all died in the plane crash, but after re-watching it, I think Island was real, Sideways was purgatory.
Damn Mike - there are as many comments today on this non-recap then we had last week over 5 days !
I fall under the 'loved it' heading. Great finale for a great series.
I've noticed a lot of people saying that the very last scene shows that they all died in the crash (when they just show the crash and all is quiet). I initially was thinking that as I was watching, but then I noticed footprints in the sand... What do you think?
To be honest I have a few questions.
Who is going to fish for Hurley?
Does Ben ever hook up with Cindy?
Does Sawyer have to jump out of flight 316 so everyone else can live on?
Will Angelina Jolie adopt Walt?
"I love how people are saying of is so clear why can't you understand that the island is real. There is about 25% of the people disagreeing at least. Until you can answer how Jack Kate Hurley saywer etc can all be in the alt world purgatory and still be alive on the island at the same time, you are wrong!!!!
Those 25% need to just take a breath and watch the ending again. The ending very CLEARLY drops the answer right onto your lap about how time doesn't exist there. If that's not an Egyptian size clue I don't know what is.
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C Cuse
It doesn't necessarily matter how long Kate, Lapidus, Miles, Sawyer, Ricardo lived after taking off on Aljira 316.... however, I don't think it was very long because if Kate lived to be 80 years old she would have other significant others she rather move on with other than Jack...Just my 2 cents.
E-bohm, the sideways "time" wasn't happening at the same time as island "time." The sideways time didn't happen until everyone had died. Kate, Sawyer, Claire, Miles and Frank probably all lived long lives (I hope!) after they made it back to civilization. Desmond was taken off the island by Ben and had a long life with Penny. Think of the sideways time as happening far in the future after everyone who was in the scene was long dead.
E-bohm-
That logic only makes sense if you think the alt-world and the island are co-existing in the same time. Most agree this is not the case. In the alt-world time does not exist. Theoretically the alt-world could be 10, 100 or 1000 yrs from now...whenever everyone physically died and entered.
Mike
for the record, I have not accomplished anything today except reading all the comments...some very amusing...even the haters...don't hate the playa, hate the game....
Art Vandelay, I need an architect, call me.
@E-Bohm:
The way I understand it, you can't say that Kate/Sawyer etc. were alive in island time but also in alt. world at the same time. The two "universes" do not coincide in time. So whether you are Boone, who died in 2004, Jack, who died in 2007, or Kate who may have lived to 2054, when they died they went to the sideways time (where they are in fact dead, not alive... see Christian and Jacks conversation in the church). Just because we were watching them simultaneously doesn't mean they occurred simultaneously.
This is a way that helps me kind of understand it, call me a nerd if you must: I relate it to the end of "Titanic." Rose lives to be like 100 years old, but when she dies she goes back to Titanic to be with Jack. It's like her time on Titanic with him was the most important time of her life, like our Losties time on the island was the most important for them. So when they died at whatever year in island time (like Jack in 1912 and Rose in like 1995) they met back at a place that can be given no date.
This is how I took it!
For all you people whining about the meaning of the numbers, here the answer. The "LOST Experience" (This video being part of it) Ties up the DHARMA questions and the meaning of the numbers. Check it out http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_PPCCcXarkc and there's more from Rachel Blake (fake person) who helps more
Actually, I do not think it is SO clear that the island was real and it was not all in Jack's head. All we see at the end is him dying. For all we know it was all in his head and this is him after being thrown from the plane and it was all in his head right before he dies. I would not say this is 100% clear.
Holly, I'm right there with ya! So glad I didn't have to work today!! hehe
Please finish the re-cap.
Mike
I feel like there are people on this board who so desperately want to believe the writers knew what they were doing that they will try to justify any ending. It is kind of like religion to them - the writers were perfect and they cannot believe that they just made up BS as they went along. Those of us who logically think about it think the whole story was thrown together, the writers got lazy, and we were left hanging because they couldn't tie it all together. Let's face it guys....they really gave us a lousy ending for the time we devoted to the show. So many many many questions left unanswered.
I have a theory on the numbers the real ones.
I think each character was both a white chip and a black chip on a backgammon board. And each of the triangles on the board represented a classic plot line.
and Damon and Carlton were just playing a game of Backgammon to advance the story and the NUMBERS were the roll that came up for that storyline
Dr.Zipp,
so many posters during the time I was writing and proofing my comment till it got posted that I just finally got through reading them all for now. YOU got it too! I'm glad to know I was not the only one that saw that.
I think people are too focused on the "questions", because this show is really about the people and their journeys and relationships. At the end of Harry Potter no one slams down the book and says "But where do witches come from? How do spells work? Answers! I need answers!" Instead, we just go with it. To spend the finale talking about electromagnetism and time/space continuums would have been dumb. Instead it focused on the characters and the show's constant themes: good/evil, faith/science, life/death.
Here is my take on what the Island is... I believe that the light at its center (as well as in the church at the end) is "heaven" and that the island, while real, is some supernatural barrier/gateway/access to the afterlife that exists here on earth. That's why it possible that the living (Jack and co) and the dead (Michael) can coexist there.
As for the reason some people were in the final scene but not on the plane, I think it's because the people in the church were all people whose lives were defined by their time on the island. This definitely applies to Juliet and Desmond (which is why penny was there, as she is his important person). Maybe Richard isn't dead yet, maybe he will/already did transition with his wife instead. Same for Walt and Eko and the others.
One thing I was really hoping would come out would be that the numbers were the seat or aisle numbers for each of the candidates. In the cave their names each seemed to have one of the numbers written next to them. Just sayin, that would have tied that up nicely.
All in all, I liked the finale. I was happier to see the writers use the finale to resolve the characters' internal struggles with themselves rather than spend the final episode answering the nerdy mythology of it all (Which I love btw.) I just think I would have felt empty understanding the Island in the end. Instead, I feel fulfilled understanding the people I've come to feel so close to.
Pretty sure they were alive on the island because the plane was flying overhead as Jack was dying, and Christian made the point at the end that there is no now, so when they died is irrelevant. Also, the point was made by Christian that it's the people and memories that matter the most, so I'd have to believe they'd have to meet in real life for it to mean anything in the afterlife. Finally, I'm trying to avoid getting caught up in the details bc that will ruin a show, but it seems that the "sideways" world is in fact purgatory. Just given the general blandness of that world prior to the memories. But seriously don't over analyze the details. Christian summarizes what the show is all about in his talk with Jack. They let go and moved on, where? who knows. That answer would ruin living... Either way who cares about all this, didn't you see Kate's legs?
Just because we love the ending doesn't mean we think the writers are perfect and knew everything from the beginning. The producers/writers have stated in interviews that they knew the theme of the show and the direction they wanted to go from the beginning. I highly doubt they had planned out the Dharma initiative before the pilot (just an example). Give the writers some credit here instead of bashing them. They knew their direction, and the rest of it was great writing and story-telling. If Lost doesn't win at least 4 Emmy's for this episode I will be surprised! The ending wasn't lousy, and the questions left unanswered were left unanswered for a reason. Yes there was no more time to answer all questions, but remember that the producers did have to deal with a way shorter season a couple of years ago because of a strike. No show is perfect. Lost is not perfect. But the story is amazing. Period.
@Holly,
you totally called it with Sayid and Shannon. I am so glad that you were right! I think that Shannon and Sayid loved eachother just as they were, in spite of their flaws. Sayid always loved Nadia, but from a guilt background. Shannon was the one that really was his one true love.
I am not getting anything done today either.
Sorry I enjoy playing devil's advocate too much to let this go. I will say this......if they want you to believe the island is real, they get a F for exposing what the island is and the mysteries behind it. And for my favorite show of all-time I would hate to believe that is what they were doing.
The endings of tv shows that people love will never satisfy all the viewers because everyone watches the show, and takes from it, something different. We got the ending the writers wanted to write.
Frankly, if you keep looking for answers to trivial questions, your going to miss the journey.
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