We have been told by the powers that be that this season has been split into 3 Story Arcs. 6 hours in the adventures at Temple Land was arc 1. It looks like now we have returned to the beach setting. It actually seems like we're getting a nice tour of the Island for our final season. A little Beach, a little caves, a little Dharmaville, a little Hydra coming up, some Black Rock, some Swan Hatch. The show is definitely coming full circle and we need to be reminded of our past settings to close the loop! This story focused around the redemption of one misunderstood individual, Benjamin Linus. He has been caught in a big lie yet again, and this time it seems his luck is going to run out. In sideways land, we learn some very interesting points about how Ben's life differs, who is still in his life and even a status on the Island! And of course, Jack and Hurley are wandering aimlessly through the jungle but that story gets interesting really quickly. Naturally, I won't be tackling the stories in that order, but I'm sure I won't lose you guys. Let's dive in to the fun!
Flash Sideways - Ben Linus
As we learned in Locke's sideways story in "The Substitute" we see learned that Ben was a European History teacher at a high school in Los Angeles. Naturally, this made perfect sense for one of the people he would be working with at the school but we'll get there. Ben is ultimately provided with an opportunity to advance his career but at the cost of someone else's future. Let's watch it develop and see who we meet along the way!
Dr. Linus
- Ben is teaching his class about Elba, an Island off the coast of Italy where Napoleon was exiled for 300 days. Obviously, ties can be drawn to OUR Island but I will leave that to the master over at Entertainment Weekly, Mr. Doc Jensen. Instead, I will provide you with a Wiki-link about Elba for your reading enjoyment!
- Principal Reynolds looks to be one annoying "D-word that Sideways Hurley likes to use and it's not Dude." That dude has been in a lot of other shows, but most notably I recall him being the D-word in Ghostbusters that was going to shut them down! Good ol' William Atherton! Anyway, he is talking to Ben about budget cuts and how he needs Ben to run detention for him. Unfortunately detention interferes with the History Club that Ben is the moderator for. Reynolds talks down to Ben saying that he keeps that club running for his own personal benefit. To make himself feel needed. So, Ben takes over detention.
- We find out that Ben has a doctorate in History hence the title of the episode. But he looks to be living a pretty miserable existence.
- Guess who else teaches at the high school besides substitute Locke? You guessed it, crazy Science Guy Dr. Arzt! (ironically in the same episode we revisit the Black Rock!) Arzt is staining his shirts and being as geekily amusing as ever. And he is complaining about not having enough money. Arzt is also fed up with Principal Reynolds and the administration for not providing him with the new science lab equipment he needs. Ben goes into his speech about how the kids are suffering and the administration isn't focusing on that.
- John Locke chimes in and tells Ben that he should be the principal. He can tell Ben cares about the place and he does his best Frasier Crane with his "I'm listening" speech.
Sideways Ben's Home Life
- Next we see Ben at home with his father Roger Linus who is still alive and well. At this point in Island time, Roger would have been killed by his son during the purge of the Dharma Initiative.
- We should note that every episode this season in Sideways Land has had some kind of Mirror Moment or Reflection: Jack looks in Mirror in LA X and Lighthouse and notices something off. Kate looks in Mirror and decides to go back to help Claire. Locke is in bathroom, reflection in mirror and calls Jack Shephard's office. Sayid looks in reflection of Nadia's front door (the notes from the script according to Jorge Garcia's podcast Geronimo Jack's Beard suggests that something is "OFF" with the reflection). And now Benjamen Linus sees his reflection in the microwave right before his father starts talking about the Island. COINCIDENCE!?!?!?!? At this point we can say absolutely not! But what is it all about?
- Ben is taking care of his father who seems to have deteriorating health and is in need of oxygen support.
- Ben complains about his job and that he feels like a loser. Roger, tells Ben that this isn't the life that he wanted for him.
- Let's pause: Remember that in season 3's "The Man Behind the Curtain" we found out that Ben had a pretty rough upbringing with his drunk father. His dad could never get over Ben's mother dying giving birth to him. And Roger held it against Ben every day of his life, especially on his birthdays. This Roger seems to be very different with his son and it seems to have affected Ben's actions as well. Here's a big question that we probably will never find out, did Ben's mother still die during childbirth? (and yes, we must note that the mother was played in season 3 by Carrie Preston who is on True Blood and is also Michael Emerson's wife. ewww Oedipus!)
- Here is the kicker though folks, Roger and Ben still lived on the Island and in the DHARMA Initiative! That's right my friends, Roger took his son there to give him a chance at being something special. And Roger regrets ever leaving the Island. Naturally, we get some humor in Roger suggesting that their lives would have been better and who knows what Ben would have become. Well, he got the nickname Captain Bunny Killer for starters!
- So, we already knew that the Island was submerged after DHARMA had established their life on the Island. What we don't know is what made them leave. It doesn't sound like the place was submerged when they left though. Because they still think they could have gone back. The fact that they still went to the Island makes me think that Ben's mother still died during childbirth but that Roger reacted to it a little differently. Is this because Jacob wasn't involved in his life? (was Jacob ever involved? We do know that a Linus was on that wheel or wall and crossed off)
- There was some commentary this week about the sinking of the Island and possibly that it had to do with some kind of Volcanic eruption on the island. I am kind of digging this theory right now because they so clearly mentioned the volcano existing on the Island in that very same season 3 Ben-centric episode. We will see soon enough I think!
- Oh right so the doorbell rings and guess who is there? Alex Rousseau! I wonder if this is the episode that they were trying to get the actress that plays Danielle for. She could not commit. Before we get into why Alex is there, let's discuss something for the complainers. Surely, people are going to complain about the improbability of FRENCH BORN Alex Rousseau living in Los Angeles and speaking perfect English. I guess a big question would be if Rousseau's crew ever still made it to the Island in this version of history. And why on earth would they be living in Los Angeles of all places? Why does Rose live in Los Angeles? Is it for convenience? Or is it once again to show that these lives are intertwined no matter the involvement of the Island? Ben was meant to be in Alex's life. Maybe they won't explain why all of these people are residing in one place. But let's just go with the flow people. Let's see where this is going before we start throwing our hate.
- Anyway, so Alex was one of the 5 students in Ben's History Club and was really counting on the help from Dr. Linus because she has an AP Test coming up. (That is Advanced Placement for anyone who doesn't know. Unfortunately, I do and have nightmares just thinking about getting ready for those tests years ago!)
- Ben agrees to meet with Alex before school at 7am. "You're the best Dr. Linus" awwwww
The Plot Thickens
- Ben is tutoring Alex on the East India Trading Company. There is a ship in the picture that looks very similar to the Black Rock. We learned about Lord Cornwalis and the Charter act of 1813. I'm sure it's all tied together somehow. Yes both were British run operations, both are in the 1800's so it's all related. But again I'm just gonna throw some links your way so you can investigate at your leisure. I think we will be getting more information very soon on the show anyway, so I'm going to hold off! Lostpedia: Black Rock Wikipedia: East India Trading Company
(Speaking of which, is anyone excited that an official LOST Encyclopedia is being released on 8/24 the same date as the DVD/Blu-ray? There is still hope to get more answers for the little things we will still be wondering about! Sign me up!)
- Long story short, Alex ends up leaking some vital information to Ben about overhearing/seeing Principal Reynolds getting it on with the Nurse in the "Hearing Test" room. Alex "Gross right?" Ben "Totally gross" Classic! Ben promises not to rat out the Principal and use Alex's name.
- Later we see Ben come to Dr. Arzt with a proposition. Arzt is naturally grading everyone's papers or tests with F's. Love it! Come on who doesn't know their Genus and Species facts?!
- Ben knows that Arzt is a computer wiz and enlists his help to check out the Nurse's emails to prove the affair between her and Reynolds. Arzt knows Ben's angle is to become Principal and wants new Lab equipment and a Maple Leaf Parking Spot out of the deal. Ben agrees to the Deal. Arzt senses that there is quite a maniacal brain at work behind Ben's sweater vest. Well his exact words are "You're a real killer!" Another Island Ben pun!
- I forgot to note that it sounds like Mom and Daughter aren't doing well financially and that Alex needs to pretty much ace this AP test and get all the help she can get to get into Yale, her dream.
The Confrontation
- In the end, Ben goes to Reynolds with a very solid plan. He has 30 emails worth of information that suggest the existence of the affair and that acts have taken place on school property. He wants Reynolds to resign and recommend Ben for the position to which he would get no question based on Reynold's reputation.
- Ahhh, but Reynolds had a card in his back pocket. Alex requested a letter of recommendation from Principal Reynolds and he can decide whether or not to advance or destroy her future. OUCH! The choice is Ben's, he can advance his career or do the right thing for Alex's career.
- Naturally, in mirroring Ben's choices ON the Island that led to Alex getting shot by Keamy, we find out that he took the high road in Sideways land leading to Alex getting a very strong recommendation to Yale. And it left Ben with a very satisfied smile on his face. Maybe his life isn't so worthless after all. He just made someone else's dreams that much closer to coming true. He totally didn't destroy Alex's life like he did on the Island. But still, even on the Island he actually SAVED Alex and Rousseau's life by his actions. This episode is all about finding the redeeming qualities in the life of Benjamin Linus, and by the end of it you can't help but really feel for the guy. And that is huge mad total props to Mr. Michael Emerson. Just hand the guy another Emmy!
For anyone keeping track in Sideways Land so far:
Ben - Happier
Alex - Happier
Locke - Happier,
Jack - Happier,
Kate - On the Run but made a friend and is helping people,
Claire - Scared but Happy and going to raise her baby Aaron
Jin - Captured by Keamy (for the money found at airport? the watch?) Where is Sun?
Sayid - Still in love with Nadia but is not with her. Refuses to accept that he could deserve someone like her. Oh yeah, and he still can kill people in defense of the people he loves. Question still exists if Shannon is the one he truly loves that "died in his arms." I still lean towards no, but there is a chance he can run into her in sideways land.
The 3 Theories of Sideways Land:
- The Epilogue Theory - Everything we are seeing is how our Island Losties end up after the season 1-6 Island timeline reaches its conclusion. Right now, things are strongly leaning that way.
- Parallel Timelines with some possibility of Intersection - Somehow the minds of each LOSTIE is tied to each other across these timelines. At some point there will be some kind of intersection where these timelines merge. What that means, how it would go down? I have no idea. But what is up with all of the mirror/reflection things?
- The Prologue Theory - The events that are happening in sideways land happened BEFORE the events on the Island. In other words, actions in the sideways universe will cause future events to happen. This sounded like a fun idea at first, but I think I am unsubscribing to it. Where would Jacob come from if he's not around in this timeline (yes we don't know for sure that he's not around)? And would they really go from a world where Alex lives to a cruel world where Alex gets shot in the head? Ouch.
Jack Continues to Regain his Mojo
The last we saw of Jack and Hurley, they were guided away from the Temple to avoid a run-in with Smokey. Hurley was advised by Jacob that someone was coming to the Island and he needed their help to help them guide the way. When arriving at the Lighthouse, Jack discovered that all of them had been under surveillance for pretty much their entire lives. Jack didn't take too well to this upon realization and went for 7 years of bad luck by smashing the mirrors (4 mirrors so really 28 years of bad luck!). Ghost Jacob was pleased with what he saw as Jack just stared out into the ocean pondering what it all meant. We rejoin our heroes as Hugo takes a little jungle nap!
To the Temple, Dude No!
- Pretty much any words that come out of Hurley's mouth these days is hysterical, but I never saw the words uttered from a dream while waking up to be "Cheese Carrots". What does that even mean!? I am fine with it forever remaining a mystery! (Note: Most people are content accepting that "Cheese Curds" is actually what Hurley said. But I forever will wonder about the magic of Cheese Carrots!)
(Before anyone suggests it, no that is not the Smoke Monster, it's just their campsite fire!)
- Jack wakes Hurley up and is anxious to get back to the Temple. Considering how Jack flipped out the last time, Hurley is not about to tell Jack that he's been in communications with the dead guy any further. He goes the Hungry Route, the Taking Time route and Jack isn't understanding why they wouldn't return to the Temple. Jack, in his take charge ways, tells Hurley he his leaving. Hurley has no choice but to follow. No fear, someone will soon stop them!
- Hurley tried to mis-direct Jack saying that there was a shortcut back tot he Temple. Jack is convinced the way to go. And then poof, out of nowhere, it's Richard Alpert!
"You're both wrong. Temple is THAT way dudes!"
Richard leads the way
- So Richard is very determined that Jack and Hurley should follow him to the "temple". Jack is wondering where Richard came from. Richard says that "You wouldn't believe me if I told you". Now I'm convinced we are getting some more Richard information in the near future, so I am hoping vague comments like this make sense afterwards! But here's what we do know, Richard has been on the Island a very long time and he hasn't aged. Sawyer wanted to see Richard when he had injured Ben with him in 1977 and he similarly appeared out of nowhere. I believe Sawyer even said "Where did you come from?" Richard's answer was something like "my people told me you wanted to see me. Here I am." So, is there something to make of Richard's sudden appearances? OR, is the fact that Jack saw Richard in 1977 and now he sees him in 2007 looking exactly the same the reason he's asking the question?
- It's a good thing we have Hurley around to ask these questions for us. Although, I don't know when anyone ever would have explained to Hurley that Richard has been on the Island for years and hasn't aged. As my memory serves me, Hugo never met Richard. He came close in the season 4 finale, but he hung out at the Orchid while Ben was orchestrating his rescue from Keamy. And he certainly didn't meet him in 1977 while he was cooking and writing Star Wars scripts! But, for the sake of the story, we will have to accept that somewhere off camera the mystery of the ageless Jacob was explained to Hurley.
- Hurley doesn't seem to trust Richard but Jack is cool with following him because "at least he's not stalling". Ouch Hurley!
- So Hurley gets to the important questions. He asks Richard if he's time traveling. Quite simply stated, "No." Good, some had been pondering that maybe that is why Richard seems to be ageless. Hurley moves on to telling Richard that he looks the same as he did 30 years ago, and asks how that is possible. (again, we have to have faith that Hurley was informed somehow about Richard!) Loved him also asking if he's a Cyborg from Terminator or a vampire!
- Richard eventually gets frustrated and tells Hugo that Jacob gave him a gift. We will touch on this more later. We have to pause to take in the site of something that we have waited years for and might soon be getting information on.
Black Rock
Richard did not guide them to the Temple, he took them to the Black Rock!
Richard did not guide them to the Temple, he took them to the Black Rock!
- Richard lied about taking them to the Temple because everyone there is dead. He just had come from there. Jack begins to look concerned for Sayid and Kate (poor Miles!). Richard said everyone was dead but that Sayid and Kate were not there suggesting that maybe they got out. I am not going to get into the fact that Jack thinks Kate was going after Claire and not going to the Temple. But whatever! Maybe he knows Kate too well and just assumed she'd go there for more information as many readers assumed last week after I went on a rant about it!
- Jack then asks if Hurley knew about this. Hurley then reveals that Jacob hinted at it. Richard is shocked that Hurley has spoken to Jacob. And then he tells Hurley not to believe anything Jacob said. Clearly, Richard is very shaken by Jacob's death. And of course, we are starting to wonder if we should be supporting Team Smokey. Richard then proceeds into the Black Rock telling Jack and Hurley that he needs to die.
- Richard looks around the inside of the Black Rock, specifically at some chains that held the slaves in. (Refer back to LA X when Flocke told Richard "Good to see you out of those chains!" As we first suspected, it's looking like it was not a metaphor, but maybe it had some duel meanings) Richard explains to Jack that in all of the years that he has been on the Island, this is the first time he has been back to this place. ANSWER ALERT!! We have wondered if Richard was a member of the Black Rock, this seems to be a ringing endorsement! Now I really can't wait for his centric episode!
(It's pretty dark, but those chains are there!)
- Richard looks for the dynamite and starts going through it like there is no fear of what it will do to him. We get some great lines from Hurley about cleaning up Arzt off of his shirt 2 days later. Love it! No one can deny that the scene of Arzt blowing up in the season 1 finale was an awesomely funny moment of the show! "Dude, you have some 'Arnst' on you!"
- Richard is very convinced that he is not going to die because he has been touched by Jacob. (ANSWER ALERT, but hold that thought!) He goes on and on about how he was told he was special and how Jacob had really big plans for him, how everything happened for a reason and when the time was right Jacob would share it with him. But now Jacob is dead. Richard has determined that his life is meaningless and he wants to die. But he can't kill himself, he needs to be killed by someone else and wants Jack and Hurley to do it for him.
- WOW, right? So, let's take a trip down memory lane and I know I have done this recently on the blog but it definitely has been one of the big questions! 815 crashes, people survive the crash with barely a scratch on them. Locke falls out a building and Jacob touches him. The man doesn't die (or is seemingly brought back) but is paralyzed and healed on the Island. Jack tries to jump off a bridge and is stopped by a car accident. Michael tries to kill himself but can't (but when he does die Christian Shephard, of all people, appears to him and tells him he can die now). Sawyer gets shot at in 1974, he looks down and no bullets hit him. Granted, he did get shot at the end of season 1 and was very close to dying if Jack didn't save him.
- Well, it's not a perfect answer, but it looks like getting touched by Jacob has protected these "candidates" from dying. But I guess they can still be killed based on what Richard is saying. We were told before that if the Island isn't finished with you, you can't die. And now this looks tied to Jacob's touch. Why is Jacob's touch so magical? I have no idea. And I wonder if when your name gets crossed off if that "lifts" the protection or something like that. So then not only does he have a magic touch but a magic pen!? Would Charlie's death be considered a murder or a sacrifice for the benefit of his friends? His name was on the wall and crossed off. There definitely is some speculating that has to be done here and that is why we have comments.
- But, another big question that we all probably have now: Are all of the people "touched by Jacob" also ageless like Richard? We really wouldn't know since it's only really been 3 years. Obviously, Walt has aged but I don't recall seeing him on the wheel or wall even though he has these crazy powers! Yikes, so many questions after getting an answer folks. Us LOSTIES can never be satisfied! But, let's see if we get more information in the Richard-centric episode. I'm not going to tell you guys when it is to avoid minorly spoiling!
- So here we are. Hurley refuses to be a part of Richard's death. Jack, on the other hand, seems very sure of himself and is okay lighting the fuse to kill Richard. Loved Hurley's refusal to leave and then decides to leave "When you change your mind I'll be like a mile away!"
- But then Jack just sits down and says "Let's Talk!" Jack totally is getting that Man of Faith vibe going on! He pieces it all together. He was touched by Jacob, he's on that Lighthouse wheel. Jacob wanted him to see that he has been watched and is to serve some purpose on the Island. Richard can't die, so maybe Jack can't either. If Jack sits right next to Richard then the dynamite should not go off. He doesn't think either one of them will die. He explains all of this to Richard and is willing to be if Jacob went to all of this trouble to get Jack to the Island that he brought him here for a reason (woaaaa John Locke). Jack doesn't think his reason for being here is to blow up sitting with Richard. Richard asks what if Jack is wrong? Jack definitely has some confidence in his answer: "I'm not".
- Jack closes his eyes and the fuse just dies.
(Wanna Try another Stick? ZING! Good times!)
- Jack took a giant leap of faith and now seems to be back on the righteous path. Is following Team Jacob the right team to follow? For now, it would seem that way. I made a suggestion in last week's blog comments that maybe neither Jacob nor Smokey are who Jack and crew need to follow. Maybe, in the end, they will become aware of this crazy game Jacob and MIB have been playing and their goal will be to put and end to it all. But, I'm sticking with Team Jack because even as unconventional as LOST is, Jack has always been the hero of the show (even though he went through his roughest patch from the end of season 3 through the beginning of season 6). We have watched Jack face his demons and his faith throughout the show, and now he seems to be ready to take on his final mission. Many people think this show will end with the LOSTIES all against each other. And, I had one big argument against that point and I will share it with you again. The mantra that has guided Jack and his crew through the entire show: Live Together, Die Alone!
- Richard has decided that Jack is the man with the answers and asks what is next. Jack, ironically like Sawyer last season, decides to go back where they started. Yep! The beach! Woo hoo, reunion time! (but we'll get there in a bit)
Ilana Squad
At the end of last week's episode "Sundown" we see Ilana, Miles, Sun and Frank escape through the secret passage. We see Ben run away from crazy Sayid but don't see where he goes. We begin with him running away from the Temple but it is not long before he runs into the 4-some.
Temple Exit
- Frank pulled a gun on Ben out of surprise but lowers it. But Ilana is more concerned about where Sayid is.
- Ben said that Sayid killed Dogen and Lennon and that he doesn't think he will be joining them. Ilana asks if he's sure to which Ben responds "He was standing over their dead bodies holding a bloody dagger, so yeah I'm pretty sure." (keep that line in mind a few bullets down)
- Ilana was "TOLD" that they would be safe at the Temple. Who told her? Probably Jacob. We need her back story!
- Ben suggests they go back to the beach where they buried Locke. They'll have the water at their backs and it's familiar territory. Hmm, again, why didn't Sawyer suggest it that way in season 5 when Juliet, Miles and crew thought it was a bad idea? Ilana agrees that they should go to the beach.
- On their way Miles begins to ask Ben what the Smoke Monster was (this was the first time he saw it). Ben said that is what killed Ilana's friends back at the statue. Ilana overhears and wants to confirm with Ben that he meant her friends AND Jacob, right? Ben hesitates and then tries to continue to cover up his lie.
- Ilana then turns to Miles and knows who he is (how does she KNOW all of this stuff?). She knows that he "communicates" with the dead. Miles explains again that he can tell how someone died, pick up their last thoughts before they "check out." Ilana then hands him the bag of Jacob's ashes and asks him to tell her how Jacob died.
- Miles takes it and does his thing. He then said "Linus Killed him." Ben denies it and Ilana asks Ben if he's sure. Miles says "He was standing over Jacob's dead body holding a bloody dagger, so yeah I'm pretty sure!" LOL!! That is the epitome of GOOD TIMES right there folks!
- Ilana then tells Ben that Jacob was the closest thing she ever had to a father. Hmmmm very interesting. What is her deal?! Yep, all we can do is keep asking until we learn more about her. For now, all we know is she has a lot of information from Jacob.
Beach Arrival
- So every time we return to the beach, I keep wondering when that season 5 time traveling scenario will play out. The one boat chasing the boat with Sawyer, Locke, Juliet, Charlotte, Daniel and Miles on it. I thought this might be the episode it would happen, but it looks like we will just have to keep waiting. Of course, of all the people on the beach by the end of the episode, only Miles would be the one to know who those people in the boat were that they were shooting at. So, maybe Miles won't be there? Oh well, right now we just have to keep hoping that the writers didn't forget to come back to this one!
- Anyway, we're back to the beach! Yay! Ilana said that she is going to look for tools and to get a shelter going, she advised the rest to look for food and firewood. Miles makes sarcastic comments about starting the fire. Ben asks what he can do, and Ilana ignores him. Love Frank's comment to Ben "You make friends easy don't you?" That man needs his own show!
- Sun gets her couple lines of an episode in whining about Jin again. She asks Ilana how long they're staying there because she needs to find him. Ilana wants to find him too. Just when we think we are about to find out that Jin is the candidate, Ilana goes and tells her that she doesn't know which one of the Kwons (or possibly both) need protecting. We get information on Jacob's side of the story for the candidates. Ilana says that she could be a candidate to replace Jacob. Sun asks to do what? Ilana responds with "if you're the one selected, you'll find out". Interesting. Who selects the candidate?
- Anyway, Ilana says there are only 6 remaining candidates. But I guess she is referring to both Sun and Jin as possibilities because Locke is most certainly dead. (take note that after she makes this comment the next thing we see is Hurley lying in the grass. Coincidence? Probably, but maybe one day when we watch the show back that will be an ironic twist if Hurley is the "selected one".)
- Ben seems to be going through Sawyer's old stash. He finds the "gentlemen's magazines" and a couple books. To keep this blog G-rated I'll only show the picture of one of the books. The book we see with the "Booty Babes Magazine" is a book about Benjamin Disraeli called Justice and Truth in Action. I can't find any information on the book, but there is a quote by this former British Prime Minister that is "Sir I say that justice is truth in action!" This man also just happened to be Prime Minister in the 1800's which is similar to the whole timeframe of the East India Trading Company information we see in Ben's Flash Sideways. And of course, the Black Rock stuff. So every storyline briefly touches on that time period on one way or another. He also was a Prime Minister of Jewish Heritage which ties it to the next book that I actually read!
- Chaim Potok's The Chosen. Naturally, you would think I would have a whole bunch of insight on this book since I read it. Come on, I read it Sophomore Year of High School. You think I remember much? I do remember it was about 2 friends who were in 2 different groupings of Jewish folk in New York. The Hasidic Jews and the Orthodox Jews. They were friends even though they were brought up to be enemies. One wants to become a Rabbi, the other is CHOSEN to take over as tzaddick, which actually means "JUSTICE or RIGHTEOUSNESS" (ties in nicely with the other book). There are Father/Son issues in the book and all of that fun stuff. The Wiki entry listed above is a good read. Actually, I remember the book being a good read too, so read it!
- But you have to love Ben referring to the Magazine and saying "the things people will bring on a trip"
- Ben looks at the Oceanic bottled water and recalls the Oceanic Plane breaking in half like it was yesterday. Frank brings up that he was actually supposed to be flying the plane. But "ANSWER ALERT!" he overslept!!! NICE
- Ben was shocked to hear that Frank was supposed to fly it. Frank wonders how different his life would have been. Ben asks how different it would have been, he still ended up on the Island. Actually Ben said "The Island still got you in the end." Frank and Ben have a smiling moment right before Ilana puts a gun to Ben's neck.
Dig Ben Dig
- Ilana walks him over to Boone Hill, ties him up with some crazy contraption bracing him from running away. She then tells him to start digging his grave.
- Yikes, how is he going to get out of this one? Well, Miles stops by a little later and sees Ben taking his time with the hole. "I'm not really in a rush." Miles offers him food. "I'm not really hungry!" Ahh good times.
- But my favorite part of this whole encounter is when Ben offers Miles the $3.2 Million again. He says he can get off of the Island, he has many resources that can get him the money. I have to quote Miles verbatim here because it was hysterical.
"Why would I need your money when there are a couple of jabronies down there named Nikki and Paulo who got buried alive with $8 million in diamonds on top of them?"
Love it! I also like this because I think there were people that speculated that Nikki and Paulo weren't actually dead and were going to crawl out of the dirt. Not sure WHY people would think that, but this certified them as DEAD and GONE! And it also set one one disturbing scene at the end of the episode. - Ben can't believe Miles is just planning to stand by and watch Ilana kill him for killing a man who didn't care about being killed. Miles corrects Ben. We find out that Jacob DID care about dying and he really had hoped that he was wrong about Ben. Interesting. So maybe Jacob DID cross Linus off because he didn't seem fit to be a candidate. Jacob also told Ben to remember he had a choice. But then why did Jacob say "What about you?" when Ben asked "What about me?" This seemed to be what spawned Ben to stabbing him. It seemed Richard was hoping for the same thing. He wanted to know what his purpose was too. Oh well, I guess we find out Jacob was prepared to die but he was hoping he didn't have to?
- Miles leaves and Ilana shoots Ben to urge him to keep digging.
Smokey Visit
- So while Ilana is out of view, we hear the sounds of the familiar Smoke Monster. Flocke is there! Love when Ben asks him what he's doing here and he says "VISITING, what are you doing?" Ben tells him he's digging his own grave thanks to his convincing to kill Jacob. Ben says that Flocke gets what he wanted. He's going to die.
- Flocke says he didn't want Ben to die. And that he needs him. He said he is assembling a crew to leave the Island for good and that someone is going to need to stay on the Island when he leaves. (WHY???) He thinks Ben is perfect for the job. Is he planning to anoint Ben as the next Smokey? Can he even do that? Anyway Ben says that he can't go anywhere because he's tied up.
- Flock points down and Ben is free. Woa...did Flocke use the force and get him loose or did it just not stick? Ilana made sure that thing was pretty tight!
- Flocke says that he is taking everyone to the Hydra Island and for Ben to meet him there. He tells Ben where a rifle is and for Ben to run and to not hesitate to shoot because Ilana won't. Then he leaves.
- Hmmm, is Hydra Island important in leaving the Island? Is Flocke's goal really to leave the Island? Consider me intrigued!
Run Ben Run
- Next thing we see is Ben bolting into the jungle. Ilana goes after him. Ben gets to the gun and points it at Ilana. She drops hers.
- We get a very emotional scene that follows with Ben pouring his heart out to Ilana. All Ben wants to do is explain himself to Ilana and tell her how he knows what she is feeling. After all Ben was a father to Alex and he watched Keamy kill her in the name of Jacob. It was his fault. He chose the Island over her. He sacrificed everything for Jacob and he didn't care. He told her that he was scared, angry and confused when he killed Jacob. He was afraid of losing his power but the thing that really mattered was already gone (Alex). He apologizes and doesn't expect forgiveness, he can never forgive himself. But he wants to be able to leave and join with Locke. Because he's the only one that will have him.
- Ilana tells Ben that she'll have him. awwwwwwww Ben made a friend! Sorta. In all seriousness, this was a big big episode for Benjamin Linus. We wondered if, in the end, Ben could be redeemed for everything he's done. This was his big repenting scene. Some people may argue that it was re-hashing stuff he has already said or that we saw in Dead is Dead and The Incident. But I thought it was important to see Ben "officially" join the good guys. Or what we think is the good guys for now!
Reunion
Ben rejoins the crew on the beach and goes up to Sun offering his help with a shelter. This is followed by another musical montage!
- We hear the now Oscar Winning Michael Giacchino's score playing Ben's theme in a more positive tone than usual.
- Then it turns more into the theme from season 2's Collision, the last time we had a big reunion moment like this.
- Ilana is crying over Jacob's ashes.
- Miles is looking at some diamonds he pulled from Nikki and Paulo's grave! EWWWWWWW! But at the same time. NIIIIIICE!
- And instead of Sun running into Jin's arms like in Collision at the climatic moment of the music, it is the return of Jack and Hurley (and Richard) to the beach! And yes we are all wondering how they got to the beach from the Black Rock so quickly. But don't worry about it folks, just enjoy the music and get all choked up!
Down Periscope
Ahh yes, all is happy but then the camera moves out into the water, and a periscope pops up out of the water!
Ahh yes, all is happy but then the camera moves out into the water, and a periscope pops up out of the water!
We head into the submarine and there is a man saying "Sir, there are people on the beach. Should we stop?" And then Charles Widmore comes into focus. "No, Proceed as planned." woa.......
BOOM LOST!!!!
Alright, who had their money on Charles Widmore as the one coming to the Island? I know a few of us suggested it at one point or another. The question is, is he alone (well, besides periscope boy)? Or is Eloise, Desmond, Penny with him? Is he coming because of Jacob? Do we link the 2 scenes together? Where is he proceeding to? How did he get to the Island? It took him forever to find it the last time. Now he just found it again 3 years later? Or did he have the help from the Lamp Post? Jacob did say that the person would "find another way to get there". Very interesting stuff folks! A couple seasons ago, Alan Dale was contracted for season 5 to be a recurring cast member and signed with an option to become a regular cast member in the final season. I wonder if he'll be on the Island for the rest of the series? And we all must wonder what his role is!
But I have rambled on for far too long on this post, so I'm going to hand it over to the smarter folks out there to start commenting. There will be haters, but this is definitely my favorite episode of the season thus far. And I can't wait for another one next week. Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always and I'll see you then. NAMASTE!
Ending Credits
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263 comments:
1 – 200 of 263 Newer› Newest»So there probably is a real good chance that hurley said "cheese curds" and not "cheese carrots!!!". Lol I can be real slow sometimes. But I definitely rewound that and heard the same thing twice!
I thought it was "cheese carrots" too so you're not alone.
And is there any chance that the flashsideways started w/ whatever happened at the end of last season or did seeing ben w/ his father end that possibility?
I expanded on your "Sideways Land so far" list.
Sideways Land so far:
Ben – Happier. His father is still alive also.
Alex – Alive ! Happier.
Locke – Alive! Happier. About to be married.
Jack - Happier. He is a good father.
Kate - On the Run but made a friend and is helping people, claims she is innocent. Perhaps she can prove it and be truly free
Claire - Scared but Happy and going to raise her baby Aaron. She is mentioned in Christian’s will. Hopefully he has provided for her. If not, once it is discovered she is Christian’s daughter, Jack and his mother will provide for her until she can get on her feet.
Jin – Alive! Keamy did not snuff him.
Sun – not married
Sayid - Still in love with Nadia but is not with her. Refuses to accept that he could deserve someone like her.
Nadia – Alive! Married with two kids.
Rose – Alive! Dealing with her cancer.
Bernard – Accepts Rose’s cancer as a reality.
Sawyer – does not appear to be a con man or murderer.
Hurley – rich, happy successful, helping others
Boone – Alive! Not entangled with Shannon hopefully.
Dr. Artz – Alive! Has a miserable career as an underpaid, unappreciated high school science teacher.
Charlie – Alive! Hopefully in rehab after his arrest.
Slowpoke - i think last night may have ended that possibility. lol I just have been thinking though if they really did "RESET TIME" the incident would have never happened because the LOSTIES never would have been back there to bring jughead to the hatch anyway. The whole thing gets my mind all twisted if I think about it too long!
Thanks for expanding the Sideways list anonymous! Very good points and we'll see if that's where it goes!
And for all you "Jacob and Smokey are really Cain and Abel" fans (didn't Doc Jensen say that too?), Dr. Linus was teaching the class about Elba which of course is an anagram for Abel. Just saying!
nice Horseman lol Yeah cain and able...Jacob and Esau...it's all out there in the Theoryverse!
I have a couple of questions:
1) Was Richard around in 1977 when jughead blew? If so, is the Richard we saw last night the same guy, 30 years later? Does he know all of the events that have taken place on the island from 1977 to present? Has he been there all this time?
2) Which 6 candidates are left, according to Ilana?
3) Was last night the first time that Jack met Ilana?
1.) Yes...same Richard. We still need more information on why he hasn't aged and what this GIFT is
2.) I mentioned this in the blog. She is counting the Kwons as 2. Then there are Sawyer, Sayid, Jack, Hurley.
3.) Probably officially the first time he met Ilana. He saw her escorting Sayid onto Ajira 316 and probably saw her on the plane as well.
or maybe she is counting Frank Lapidus as one....because remember in season 5's finale...Bram asked Ilana if she thinks Frank "might" be a candidate. So who knows?!?! lol
I am going to come clean as the hating emailer..
The word "Stepford" can also be used as an adjective denoting servility or blind conformity, ("He's a real Stepford employee"), or a noun ("My home town is a Stepford").
Mike, I love your writing style and I clearly appreciate the time and effort you put into such a great show. I agree with some of the points, but many of these big “reveals” you mention are again so obvious to the educated viewer that it amazes me that people even NEED to point these things out. Gee, you cant be killed if you get the “blessing” of Jacob, wow, who would have thought?! You mean people didn’t realize this again at the end of Season 5? This was a question that needed to be answered? You even point out the fact that sometimes characters escape with no scratches on them, but other times it is a big issue (with the Sawyer gun shot wound)..so the lack of consistency AGAIN points out the lack of consistency in the writing throughout the series (to which the Powers that Be say “but wait, we showed you Adam and Eve in the first season and they are back and important”)
“Was Richard a member of the Black Rock?” Again, the answer to this was so obvious that I actually felt the ton of bricks hit me in the head last night…or do I mean a ton of popcorn for the popcorn crowd viewers? (Popcorn viewers is a general term used to describe those who are just there for the show, not ones that look real deep into the issues presented..you know, the Michael Bay and Tim Burton fans…) My problem is that by definition of people reading this Blog, and other items like Jeff Jensen, we clearly ARE NOT that crowd..we take the time to make the connections the show does not make obvious to us. Do you know that I have had to explain to my boss that the “Man in Black from the Season 5 Finale is the Smoke Monster” 3 times…THREE TIMES?! I guess people like that are “shocked” Jacob’s touch and Richard’s age are connected…phew..
There’s an important distinction in writing about whether or not you are a character driven story or a plot driven story. Unfortunately for as long as I can remember in any science fiction based show, any time you tout yourself as a character based one (X-Files, Battlestar Gallactica) you wind up falling into an abyss with the fans, who by their very nature WANT to know ANSWERS TO QUESTIONS. It is in their nature to be curious about overall plots, we are dorks so it’s in our nature to question such things. I don’t want to spoil the end of BSG, but even though the “character” arcs were settled magnificently, the plot arcs were done in such a shabby way that it is hard to classify it as a success.
I found these interesting questions to look at when Writing:
1. What is the force propelling your story from beginning to end? Is it the characters or what they’re going through?
2. Am I more interested in the story? Or the people within in the story?
3. What do you remember about your favorite books? The plot? Or are the characters what make the story stand out in your mind?
4. Are you a heavy outliner of events? (Plot = important) Or do you focus on character development and allow them to move the action forward? (Character-driven)
The answers to all of these questions are the same: If you look at seasons 1-3 you can say that the characters defined the show, even though we had mysteries like the Hatch, the Island, the Numbers, etc. The Flashback mechanic made us care about the characters themselves: their interconnectivity, their dreams, and their motivations that led them to Oceanic 815. Then you had the Flash Forward mechanic, and it all fell apart. We stopped asking “who are these characters” and focused on “why are things happening.” The writers FORCED US DOWN THIS PATH!! It does not make us all “haters” for wanting to get answers to questions that the writers put out there for us. Hell half the time in the Flash Forwards was focused on GETTING BACK TO THE ISLAND!!! So was NOT a truly separate stanza in time like the Flashbacks or the awful Flash-Sideways. The Flash Forwards moved the ISLAND time plot forward, ultimately leading the seemingly useless “Incident” (I say useless because now that we know Ben left the Island in one piece and he was THERE during the Incident, clearly the Incident had no effect on the timeline, or at least the intended result).
So Three Seasons of character focus, 2 that swing back to Plot development, and now you have the last one that is trying to focus on character development again. How does this make any sense?
2. Now this is going to change for each viewer, but clearly the Writers have AGAIN shifted this focus for the viewer.
3. See answer 2. You have to understand that as a dedicated viewer, this is the path the writers have taken us down, so what choice do we have? One cannot choice to ignore the “big issues” and focus on “oh gee I hope Kate and Sawyer wind up together”, “Gee I hope Sun and Jin find each other and live happily ever after”..this stopped becoming a Disney Movie 2 years ago..
4. same
Now specifically on last night, we get it, Ben chose Alex over Power this time…yeah, we get it. But now I ask you, are the decisions the same? Is being principal of a high school on the same level of leader of what you have grown to understand as an “Island under the influence of a god that is the center of the world?” No one is saying he “chose wisely” by allowing Alex to die on the Island, but we are not talking apples and oranges here people…
Another hour, no real answers, I do not see how one can define this as a good episode in the sense that it moves the Plot forward, which now MUST be the focus of the show.
I heard "cheese curds." Which makes perfect sense, because cheese curds are a delicious dairy treat and I'm guessing Hurley loves delicious dairy treats!
The writers peeved me on one thing last night. Principal Reynold's negotiation of the blackmail was utter horses$%t. You don't negotiate blackmail when someone has something that good on you. You don't set conditions like he did. Ben should have looked back at him and said, OK now there's 2 conditions of my keeping these emails a secret, your job, and a glowing reco for Alex. What could the principal have said to that? Nada.
AU Star Wars - I understand your frustration with the show, I don't necessarily agree with you on why people watch the show. Granted, I have talked to several people today who didn't like the episode. But not everyone is citing the same issues that you are. The Richard Stuff - there have been LOTS of assumptions made with Richard and his relationship to the Black Rock. We didn't ever OFFICIALLY get an answer. And we still didn't. I think the show HAS to address this. I don't think they are DONE addressing it. They just started. We know Jacob's touch is involved with stuff but not to the extent. We still don't. I look to the March 23rd Episode to shed some light on this. So get ready for more Black Rock stuff. Maybe you'll be satisfied then! As for the Jacob's touch thing...the more I think about it...it seems that it's exclusive to preventing Suicide (i also forgot to mention John Locke in this one as well)...but then I don't get the Flight 815 crash scenario.
As for the story becoming less character-centric in seasons 4 and 5...eh...I'm not so sure I agree with that. Season 5's whole "getting back to the island" story was a challenge for the character centric stories but they did sorta make it work. But season 4...we still had character development going on. We saw what happened to Jack, Kate, hurley, Sayid, Sun and Aaron (and Ben) when they left the Island. Season 4 was also rushed due to the writer's strike so it's unfair to judge it stuffing so much into those final episodes. I still think they were very character centric. But yes...lots of questions and mystery introduced.
I am all about coming FULL CIRCLE with a final season of any show. I'm all about getting back to the roots of what made a show successful in the first place. I think LOST is striking the right balance by showing us all of the sites we have seen over the 6 years...reminding us that the mysteries are still out there and need to be addressed by the show (yes, even if a bulk of us don't need to be hit over the head with it).
I would agree that the plot didn't necessarily move forward, but we did still see the SIDES shaping up. Jack has signed up for Team Jacob...Richard is going to follow Jack. Everyone has joined up on the Beach (and who doesn't love a Reunion scene on the BEACH?)....Flocke and crew are moving to Ajira Island and Ben has this intel. Widmore is coming to the island. The pieces are moving into place....SOMETHING is about to happen. I can't see how that isn't exciting!
We can agree to disagree on some things, but some people still watch this show for the characters. And I do love my Disney movies! :-)
Lol nice on the cheese curds Nicole.
I head about this whole Blackmail beef too...yeah Ben, the master manipulator, should have been able to turn the tides on Reynolds again...but this is a different Ben off-island...all he cared about was his students and more importantly, he has some connection with Alex and he didn't want to jeopardize that. I'm fine with the liberties taken by the writers to make the scene work. Besides...a lot of people in the world are a lot of talk but when it comes down to it...they just...can't...pull the trigger! lol
I agree with Mike that we did get some exciting answers lastnight. of course my favorite was Richard (where he came from, how he got to the island, and why on earth doesn't he age?) i consider myself more than a "popcorn viewer" or whatever you called it (the fact that i'm reading this blog for more ideas about all the puzzles on LOST is probably proof of that) and i don't ever remember there being a hint that Richard came to the island on the Black Rock. Smokey talked about being in chains but who could have known that's what he meant?
Also, we don't know how far this plot needs to go, and as long as the show is finally starting to answer some of these mysteries, that is a good sign and all i really ask for. I wasn't really looking forward to a two hour finale event trying to answer every single question ever asked from the viewers at the last minute!
WOW!
I heard Hurley say Cheese Curds, and it made me laugh out loud! Maybe they are all like cheese curds, coming together to form a huge chuck of swiss! Cheese Curds! Dude, no whey!
I actually cried when Ilana told Ben that she would have him. He just looked so lost and broken and vunerable as he stumbled behind her. Then he gave the gun to Sun, or just set it down, didn't need it anymore, decided to offer help instead. I thought that was the best moment of the entire episode.
Frank Lapidus is the shit!!
I agree with my son, I am on whatever team Hurley is on, because he is definately a good guy.
I was totaly thrilled to see Miles with a diamond!
I was not suprised to see Charles Whidmore, I am looking forward to more information. I wonder what the island would have been like if Charles had not been overturned as leader.
I thought that it was a great episode, and thank you for staying up all night to write your blog so I have something to read while waiting for my boy to get ready for school.
I think everyone has a right to love or hate the show, have issues with it, whatever, but this is the lost addicts blog, and I prefer to read positive thoughts and share my excitement of the show with Mike V and others here....I think that haters should perhads post on the sites that have specific areas just for them, as I am willing to concede that the rabbit talks in order to enjoy bugs bunny.
got a question for all of you.... since what I've read so far about the black rock and the slave trading bla bla bla bla.... it has come to me a simple thought... was Charles Witmore the captain of the black rock back in the 1800? maybe Im going to far.... but that just keep going through my mind!
Courtney...glad you agree with me! As for a hint on Richard...we did see him working on a model replica of the Black Rock last season when Locke (we later learned it was Smokey) came to see him. And I think there was even speculation before that but never solid evidence. When smokey talked about Richard in chains many of us looked at that as "confirmation" that Richard was part of the black rock...but then people started to look at it as a motiff for being chained to Jacob all of these years. There was also speculation that he was from Ancient Egyptian times...so I think the show needed to clarify and still will clarify further in a future episode. Hey, I speculated along with everyone that Anthony Cooper (Locke's Father) was the same Conman that was involved in Sawyer's parents' death....but I still loved it when that came to a climax in season 3. The Brig is an awesome episode! (and also the episode where this blog started to blow up!)
The key is...we have 11 hours left of this show and the pieces are moving into place. The answers are coming...but I think it's clear that there will be people that are no doubt upset with the level of answers that are provided.
I agree with you, Mike, that they wanted to have Ben give up the blackmail to show the difference in his character. And to contrast his decision to save Alex in sideways land against his decision to sacrifice Alex on the island. I understand the purpose of the decision. But it wasn't believeable to me because there was such an EASY solution for Ben to have his cake and eat it too there. Even a good guy should've seen that!
gnni4:
I totally agree with you! i was so happy when Ilana accepted Ben. but you never know what to expect with lost so i was yelling at my tv "please go with her ben! FOLLOW HER!!!!!" and he did :) it is so amazing how much i care for that guy and i too am glad he's on the "good" side. they need him. plus, now (thanks to Flocke) he knows exactly where the "bad" side is gathering at..
man i wonder if kate has any idea what she is involved in? and jin too? they're just tagging along, not knowing what side they are on.
Great job as usual Mike V.
My wife and I really liked this episode, it showcased Michael Emerson's talent. The two versions of Ben and his "redemption" by making the choice to follow Ilana and company was good dramatic stuff. Sure, the Alex Rousseau/blackmail stuff in bizarro universe was kind of rushed and Disney-esque but it did illustrate a point that these characters in some ways are different but the same as well. Sometimes we make decisions not to "pull the trigger" but never fully realize how much good or happiness that brings into the world. That's the point I think the writers are trying to make. Do we always need to know and see the results of choices we make?
BTW - I knew the Black Rock ship would make into Ben's curriculum somehow and laughed out loud with my wife when it showed up in his lesson with Alex Rousseau!
I really love how they are tying these season 6 episodes to episodes from season 1 and 2. The Dr. Artz/Richard Alpert/dynamite/Black Rock/beach camp reunion montage/Jack Shephard "let's sit and see what happens" attititude was awesome and nostalgic.
Jack is gonna be badass as the man of science that has found his faith also and become a true believer! LOL!
Mike,
I heard "cheese curds". Whatever, as long as it is food, it is worthy of Hurley.
My favorite moment in this episode was Miles with a diamond. I always knew those diamonds would turn up again, and Miles is the best person to have them. Of course, there may be more to this story...
Thanks for the props Jenn (gnni)! Although, I don't discriminate between positive and negative comments. AUStarWars has been posting here for years and I welcome his and any other people's input. We're all going to have varying opinions. It's nice to see other perspectives of the show. me? I think I'm easily pleased by the LOST Writers. Looking back at the episode recaps, I can't think of many times where I didn't "WOW" the episode and talk about how much i loved it. Key episodes I remember not being thrilled about: Fire + Water and The Tattoo Episode (name is escaping me for a second and I'm too lazy to think of it!) But i am glad you guys appreiciate the effort I put into the blogs.....Wednesdays are very rough for me trying to get through the work day! lol
Juan...I am going to guess Widmore wasn't the captain of the Black Rock...since he was like a teenager or young 20's in 1954 on the Island. But it was an interesting thought! :-) lol
btw...i am going to be in meetings all afternoon, so I'll probably be playing "comment catchup" later on. Please don't be mad if I miss your comment in my responses!
Thanks again for the props guys...enjoy the discussions!
David, I share your enthusiasm for the episode and the tying back to prior seasons and loved Emerson in this too! Thanks for the props!
Nicole, I get what you're saying and understand. I'm willing to overlook it! lol
Courtney, I guess the good news for Kate is that Sawyer will be over there looking out for her. Or maybe it's the other way around with her looking out for him and Jin and Claire! Maybe she can even convince them to get away from that crew. But I have a feeling that Ben's intel,like you said also, will come in handy to bring these LOSTIES all into one location for a showdown and possibly some team switching! lol
we'll see! But we must be patient.
It was cheese curds.
The Prologue theory could still work... I have a feeling that BAD things will start happening soon in sideways land...
@Anonymous - We don't know that Sun is not married. As an earlier poster pointed out, women in her culture do not change their last name when they get married
I think Ilana was talking about Kate as one of the 6 (remember she is 51 on Jacob's numbers)
Weasel, I still have that feeling too...but I don't know if that definitely insinuates PROLOGUE theory lol...we'll see!
I may have to update the blog to say Cheese Curds so people stop bringing it up! lol
And good call on Kate...although Ilana never brought up Austen's name at the temple when she was asking where everyone was!
About being touched by Jacob, I don't think it keeps people from aging... we would not have a bald Locke and Kate & Sawyer would be kids.
Great place to read some insight on Lost with different points of view.
Nice catch on Miles potentially beign on both the canoes - I'm so glad he is still surviving on the show & I would love to learn why he has his gift but I don't see that as a major point for the show to address in detail with such few shows left.
Since the Dharma did still exist & Ben/Dad spent time there I would expect his birth to be the same, mom died & they met Horace. No value in redoing that story.
MIB was tempting Ben with the one thing that he really wanted which was to be in charge of the island -to have a purpose in life but he will renege on this promise as well & he won't let anyone stay behind alive.
At the reunion I had hoped Ricahrd & Ben might have hugged or at least shook hands. Ben needs a new shirt!
Is the Ajira plane still on the other island? It landed & didn't crash - First class or Coach for MIB
Oh, and Jack does not mention being touched by Jacob to Richard in the Black Rock while the fuse is burning. I don't think Jack knows he was touched by Jacob... has he met Jacob besides in the hospital (where he did NOT get his name)?
I agree with Weasel. Richard is special in another way. The aging thing doesn't jive with Kate and Sawyer. Richard perhaps was the only "good" person available for some time to Jacob? The only person he saw fit to lead. There was obviously something he specifically needed from Richard, as I dont believe he was a candidate same as Jack etc.
I am a popcorn watcher too, so I think the hardcore watchers need to take it easy. Its entertainment meant for everyone, not a select few.
Weasel - ahhhh touche' on them being touched as kids and the locke thing. Also possibly widmore aging from Teenager to Old man.
Penner - agreed that we may not get more info on Miles's gift other than he's an Island baby! lol
I talked myself into the same thing about Ben's birth as well!
good point on MIB tempting Ben with power again.
I think they all need new shirts! lol
i don't think that plane is functioning anymore but it would be very interesting if that was Smokey's way off of the island! There's only one dude that can pilot it and he's on Team jacob right now! lol (and yes it's on hydra)
i still can't figure out the whole sideways story...epilogue/prologue makes the most sense so far imo. im more intrigued by what is happening on the island now. is it me or does it feel like ben and kate are wildcards on both sides. flocke sees kate but he wasn't planning on her being there. team beach wasn't really planning on having ben. also...aren't their names not on the lists?
also...im starting to think that jacob/mib being the same person makes even more sense. they both are looking for someone to take their place. why? they both want off the island...they just have different approaches...right? jacob is just the more patient side of this thing/person locked up on the island...ha!
Weasel - I think Jack put the pieces together on jacob himself. He has never met Jacob other than that one time as far as we know. But he knows they're all on that dial/wheel so he's assuming that he was "touched" or something. And Richard said the magic words about being "brought here for a reason" just like Locke told Jack back in the day.
I would say I'm a popcorn watcher with a desire to analyze every detail of the show. I'm on both sides of the fence! But everyone is definitely allowed their opinion!
Cheese Curls not Cheese curds.... makes it even funnier if its a vague reference to Cartman and chessy poofs.
lol...nice!
Whew - great ep. The heck with the haters, I've yet to hate any this year.
Great recap as always Mike (looking forward to FF coming back and reading that as well), but I haven't read the 34 comments yet so sorry if I'm repeating things already said.
'Many people think this show will end with the LOSTIES all against each other. And, I had one big argument against that point and I will share it with you again. The mantra that has guided Jack and his crew through the entire show: Live Together, Die Alone! ' I hear what you are saying Mike - but I think that you have misunderstood some of us. Last week we debated on whether some of the losties will be on different sides - that's not a debate any more as we have seen it happen so far. But what I am thinking is that while both are on opposing teams, the end result will be that they ALL get off or stay on the island by not allowing Jacob and MIB to keep playing their game - meaning they will be together. Both sides working towards their own goal, but with the same end result in a way. Or which ever teams does win gets to reset and get them all back. But I think someone will have to make a sacrifice to enable this - Adam and Eve.
The whole love triangle of Kate/Jack/Sawyer was never my fave part - but I really will be pissed if Penny or Juliette wind up being the baby mama for Jack. That would be so wrong. So it occurs to me that Rebecca Mader (freighter chick whose name I can't remember) has those nice blue eyes ! LOL
This is the first time that island timeline Ben was offered a chance at power and did NOT take it. I agree with you - He's been redeemed !
Did Flocke use the force ? Good one Mike !
And I want Sawyer and Jin back dang it ! I guess we are to assume they are waiting on Hydra now, but Sawyer was stuck in a cave with a broken ladder and Jin wasn't able to walk too good last time we each saw them.
Widmore told Locke a war is coming and if you do not go back then the wrong side will win. But that does not necessarily mean that Widmore wants Locke to win ! But what squishes my brainpan is this - how could Widmore KNOW that Locke had to be there for the right team to win !?!
I thought it was Cheese Carrots, I liked the episode, I felt there was closuse to Ben's sideway reality that we may not get from other characters with such little time left.
This episode reinforced to me that this is a game, When Miles told Ben that Jacob's last thoughts were ,he hoped you would change or something to that effect b4 he killed him, it proves to me that the folks on the island are just pawns to MIB and Jacob, they can't totally controll them but they picked them to play the game, it is up to each free will to make the decision. Another example is when FLocke breaks the shackle for Ben. Ben had a choice to make , run with the devil to the Hydra and protect the island! or ask Illana for forgiveness and plead his case.
My last thought is on Jacob. I dont think anyone except for Ben has actually saw him in human form except Ben "on the island", Hurley has seen him as a ghost. Could Jacob have chose to let Ben see him? and give him this opportunity to kill him. Was he always some type of ghost on the island? As Flock points out b4 they go on the temple walk end of S5, how many of you have seen Jacob? none of them raise there hand. "but" then why did he bleed when Ben stabbed him and MIB didnt when Sayid stabbed him?? lol , who knows!
Interesting thought MJ! I'm still not buying it! lol I want my Island LOSTIES working together in the end! :-) we'll see what happens! (I'm nervous for FF to start back up..don't know how i'll balance it all!)
yikes...i can't hit hurleyate's comment or the rest of yours MJ...i'm late for my afternoon meetings! I'll catch up with everyone later!
The 1st incident was the original drilling at the swan site when they hit the pocket of electromagnetism. This is why the swan had to be encased in concrete before being built. The incident was documented on the infamous wall painting map. This was also the reason for having to release the energy every 108 minutes. (Season 1 until the implosion)
Farraday was aware of this incident and proposed the variable cahnge into the equation of time string theory, at that precise moment the bomb needed to go off.
This equation change forced all of the islanders to present day at the destruction site of the swan's implosion.
But none of it explains why in 2004 (sideway's time) the island is under water or how in present time it is no longer under water.
I will not comment at all on how the flash sideways fit in, but I think there was another similarity between Ben's sideways antics and his early life on the island. When Widmore was forced to leave the island, it was because he had an affair off-island, right? (Or at least that was part of the problem...) And Ben became the leader only after Widmore, the previous leader, was banished. We don't know for sure that Ben was the one to discover/bring up the affair, but I think it's quite convenient that in both story lines Ben could/does gain a position of power by outing his superior. What do you think?
I just discovered your blog at the beginning of this season, and I lover reading it and the comments every week. But on the 6 that Ilana is talking about -- I think "Kwon" still only counts as 1 in her eyes. If she knows about the Lighthouse list, then you're missing Kate in there!!
Count me in the disappointed camp this season (although still looking forward to the show and reading up on it every week).
Spending half of every episode on Sideways land seems excessive, since there are so many things to answer on the island. Yes, I know it will be important. But so important that we don't have time to see Sawyer for two episodes or Kate for this entire episode? And before tonight Ben had been a minor character throughout the season. Sideways Land just crowds out too much on the island to be worth all this time. Couldn't we have had an episode or two to make the point about this alternative life, whatever it is?
Also, why so much time on Dogen's life story, convincing Jack to give Sayid the pill, etc. So much of this season is interesting enough, but in the context of the final season when there are so many unanswered questions, it all seems like a criminal waste of time. A quick example: Richard was at the Black Rock, ready to die, told to talk. And we still don't know what his backstory is, although we got another clue nugget. I realize they're going to spend an episode on Richard, but it's so frustrating to keep coming up on the verge of an answer, in this Season of Answers, and get turned away again and told to wait.
With too many questions to answer, I wish the producers had tried more earnestly to give us as many answers as they could. Instead we get Jack and the pill, Ben trying to get a principal to resign, and so forth, all of which is interesting and likely to pay off to some extent later, but I am just not convinced that this is the most efficient way of doing it or the most thoughtful way of rewarding fans who have watched and debated about the show for five seasons.
Don't get me wrong, I'll be glued to my TV every week, as I have been throughout the season. It's still a great show. But my feeling so far this season is that Lost is betraying the greatness of its first five seasons with a plodding, distracted sixth season.
I'm wonderng if Ben's dad is sick because of the incident on the island. If he was around when the bomb blew he could have been exposed to the radiation?
I was not annoyed at all by the blackmail scene - I think it was done purposely just to highlight how very different this Ben is.
Love Ben trying to bribe Miles - just like the old days ! LOL
AUstarwars - maybe the word 'answers' is what seems to get to you. It's confirmations of our long held theories and thoughts is what makes the rest of us pretty happy. And while I love to savor every morsel they give us for clues and hints as a rabid fan, I also firmly have a foot on the other side of the line in popcorn watcher-ville this season in that I just want to sit back and enjoy the ep for what it is - part of the season of answers.
Is Miles starting to go down a dark path? They are reenforcing that his motive is greed. Now he has the diamonds in hand what is the next thing he is going to want...perhaps a way off the island. Does he switch sides to get off the island? Look again at the "Last Supper" picture. Miles and Claire switch position between the two photos. And it is interesting to see who is on each side ok Locke in that photo.
Any ideas as to why Smokey/Locke doesn't take out the crew at the beach?
"live together or die alone" i think Jacob and Smokey are the two sides of this. Except, the "rule" is Smokey cant just kill people (that would be cheating essentially). So, Jacob tries to prove people can live together. Smokey wants everyone to die alone. They've picked candidates to prove their point. Doesnt explain why smokey doesn't kill Ilana though. Perhaps it would too easily solidify people against him.
i thought of a couple things when reading through the comments...
1) isn't it amazing how Flocke has an uncanny ability to come to and tempt people when they are at there lowest, lowest points? ben is digging his own grave for goodness sakes! it is almost as if he can sense someone in that state and just SHOWS UP! so does someone else do that too in our everyday lives? just happens to be there to give you a push when we're headed down the wrong path? :) black and white/ good and evil right?
2) another somewhat religious item that came to me when i was reading your blog, mike. you said "Oh well, I guess we find out Jacob was prepared to die but he was hoping he didn't have to?" i can think of someone else who came into this world knowing he would have to die and still wished there could be another way.
so take those how you will. it's easy to paste religion on a lot of things but dang they are really laying this good and evil thing on pretty thick lol.
I just noticed AUStarwars' comments, and was very interested to see them. While I don't think everything is always as obvious as s/he says, I wholeheartedly agree with his/her overall view of Season 6, particularly the frustration over Lost shortchanging us on answers.
I read AUStarwars' comments last week and they crystallized a lot of the frustrations I had been having. Same goes for this week.
I don't really care whether Kate ends up with Sawyer or Jack, or at least that's not what I'm watchign every week. I care about fundamental questions like: What IS the island? What is the game going on between Jacob and MIB? Who is good and who is evil? Whether Jack, Sayid, Ben, or anyone else ends up happy off the island is not what I really care about.
If what happens in Sideways Land shapes how we think about the island and what it saved people from or deprived them of, then, yes, it is worthwhile to show us Sideways Land. But I just can't believe that you need half (or maybe it's one-third, I don't know) of every episode to make that point.
I would much rather be watching Richard explain why he doesn't age than see Jack patch up his relationship with his son. I know that sounds callous, and the point is not that I'm uninterested in the characters. That's not the case. My point is that, as AUStarwards points out, the series has been more about the island than the characters for a long time, and this was built up as the Season of Answers. So focus on the answers, not the characters. This doesn't have to be mutually exclusive. Rather, let's just say there's a balance in every show and right now Lost is tipping in the wrong direction...
I think it seems a little frustrating that what may seem like obvious answers are being addressed instead of questions like "what the island is?" and "why does Richard Alpert seem ageless while not being a time traveller?", however we should trust the writers and makers of the show. They are trying to show full character journeys and will definitely answer the questions above in a very satisfying way. I am certain of this.
The momentum is building in the episodes so far, we just need to be patient. :-)
Another thing about bizzaro/sideways land - a lot of folks are assuming the lack of Jacob's presence in this universe. I don't know if this was stated clearly on the show or in the enhanced episodes. Can someone please confirm?
Mike- Thanks for your blog, I look forward to reading every week!
Quick question, in this episode when Flocke came to Ben chained up and digging his own grave, and said he needs Ben to "stay on the island when he leaves" do you think this was just Flocke trying to manipulate Ben to come? In the episode The Substitute, when Flocke and Sawyer are in the cave, Flocke is pretty adamant about the fact that the island does NOT need anyone one there to protect it. Thoughts?
Great job as usual Mike, thanks!
I am not sure this has been addressed before but it bugs me. If Ben was on team Jacob the whole time (and by the way how can he be "good" when he was asked to exterminate dharma people, and also he and the first others killed a bunch of people from Oceanic in the first couple of seasons), how could he have summoned the smoke monster that time, from his closet?
Mike V. - I found your blog about a month ago and I love your recaps and discussion posts. I’m 100% completely addicted to Lost and obsess over it constantly!! I always read your blog first thing Wednesday morning to see what everyone is dissecting and point out what I missed. I do have a question... Am I the only one who thinks that Charles W. is on his way to meet MIB at the Hydra Station to take them off the island? I don't know what is making me think he's on MIB side, but he is definitely opposite of Ilana's side and she's team Jacob. Just a thought. It's also making me think that Jacob and MIB might be one in the same somehow too, I just haven't figured out how that can be because there were 2 men on the beach in "the Incident" so there should be two opposing characters, unless as someone else stated they represent the two sides in us all right/wrong. Ahhh I'm so confused!
we still don't know if the kwon's are one or two seperate candidates. i don't think that should be dismissed. i know, i know...they have been an after thought but im sure they will come around to them sooner or later.
Ghost of Jeremy: Thanks for your kind words on my comments (and I am a guy lol, I work with Mike lol), and to all I am glad we are able to use Mike's comments blog as a forum to discuss both what we love and what frustrates us about Lost
Anonymous- In regards to your comments about Widmore being on MIB's side, I completely agree, here is why:
1) As someone mentioned above, when Locke was in bed, Widmore said to him that if he didn't get back to the island, the wrong side would win. Above, it was said that he didn't say Locke's side would win (valid) however, if Locke DIDN"T go back, then it doesn't seem that there even would be that side at all (make sense?) so I think Widmore did want Locke to be used by smoke monster.
2) In season 5 eposode "Some like it Hoth" that was based on Miles, Miles was recruited by Naomi (who we knew worked for Widmore). Later in the episode, a van pulls up and Bram and other masked people pull him into the van and ask the usual "what lies in the shadow of the statue". We know that they are working for Jacob, and they tell Miles that he is playing for the wrong team. Bram then says that he is on the team that will win.
To me, there are clearly the two sides, and Widmore seems to be very cleary on the side opposing Jacob.
Just how I interpret it.
Interesting thought that Widmore may be on his way to Hydra island to meet Flocke, I hadn't thought of that.
I agree that we do have to have "faith" in the writers, that all the important questions will be answered, I am confident they will. We're all so anxious to know what is going on (after all, we are ADDICTED to a show that we don't even know the plot to!) so, we want to skip over the anticipation and build up and just get to the good stuff!!(AUStarwars) But, that is what will make us that much more satisfied when we do get the BIG answers. I personally just want to know what the heck the show is actually about! LOL!! I love the characters and hate the sideways land and I really hope everyone who thinks it will be their lives in the end is wrong because so far I like the Island version of everyone better than the sideways versions (even though some people died on the island). I also think that everyone is not happier in sideways land, it just appears that way on the outside, but I think it will soon change. They are all actually a lot more bored in their lives and have no actual purpose. The Island versions of their lives are so much more meaningful, so if the show ends with them living in Boringville forever with no recollection of the Island I will be so MAD! All the progress they made since season 1 will just be wiped out!! No way, I refuse to belive that theory!
I think we're all making an assumption about the Sideways world. We are assuming that the island reality is the one in which Jacob touched the lives of the candidates, and Sideways world is the "normal" reality in which the Losties were never affected by any outside power. However, we're all noticing the "coincidences" of characters meeting each other in Sideways world. What if Sideways world is the one in which Smokey/MIB has touched or affected these characters' lives and fates? What if we're seeing the battle between Jacob and Smokey played out in these two alternate realities?
I'm the last 2 anons.. KDH- Thanks for the agreement and clarification on the Widmore/MIB confusion. The main reason why I'm confused about the MIB/Jacob sides thing is because it was "Jacob" who was trying to guide someone to the Island and now that we see Widmore on the way to the Island everyone is assuming that's who he was leading. I however, don't think that makes any sense because clearly he can't be on Jacob's side, so why would Jacob care about leading him there? Also, I don't think MIB can go undercover to Hurley as Jacob because Ilana said that now that Jacob's dead MIB can't change his "disguise" or whatever and he is stuck as Flocke now. So it did just confuse me and make me think maybe Jacob and MIB will turn out to be the same guy. Kinda like how there's an angel on your right shoulder and the devil on your left, but you are still just one person. I hope I'm making sense.
We shouldn't assume that just because Jacob says "someone needs to find the island" that Jacob is necessarily on the same side as the person.
Jacob seems like a very masterful planner and factors in both actions that work to his advantage (whatever that may be) AND against it. He seems to see the "big picture" much like his decades long tapestry weaving endeavor.
I am also thinking that what Jacob said to each of the "touched" Oceanics is VERY important i.e. the actual words. They seem to factor into the ultimate purpose and tasks each of them have. For example, Hurley constantly making choices - stay or run from the dynamite?! Jack needing "a little push or shake" much like the candy dispensing machine with the Apollo bar, I am sure Katy will "do something really good" in the end etc.
Sidewaysland seems very limiting with respect to the potential of a lot of these characters. They need a little "shakeup"!
Sorry, I just wanted to add one more thing to that. I don't actually think that Jacob and MIB are the same, I was just saying that the thought crossed my mind when I was reading people's comments about Widmore coming back to the Island because Jacob was guiding him there. I also wanted to say that I totally agree with the comment above about religious/biblical references and I think the whole thing will come down to a Jacob and Esau type of a storyline. I think there's a major reason why we don't know MIB's name and I think it's because they want to keep us guessing until the end, but we will find out it's Esau. This would also make Jacob the bad guy because he deceived his brother and father to get ultimate control and would explain why MIB/Esau is so vengeful and on a killing rampage all the time…. IDK Just some ideas. Who knows maybe none of us are right about any of the theories and we will all be totally shocked to find out what's going on. LOL! I hope so because that would be epic!
Anonymous - Widmore's hard to peg. I always felt he was on the same side as Ben - he competed with Ben for the job as leader - which puts him on Jacob's side.
Truthfully - I was never that invested on who got to go home with Kate, I swear! But - that said - this is a show all about characters and they have made me care about them. Then they got me invested in Des and Pen being a couple and Juliette and Sawyer, Bernard and Rose. So I am going on record now saying that Jack's baby mama better be that redhead with nice blue eyes that Rebecca Mader played ! LOL I will NOT be happy if it's Pen or Jul !
Mike, I am avid LOST fan and started reading your blog this season. I love it and all the comments as well. I love that this has turned into a whitmore amnd co. discussion because I am constantly thinking about, who is on who's side. We have Whitmore, Eliose, Jacob, MIB, Ilana and Ben. Now, I think they made it clear that Whitmore and Ben are on opposing sides. Illana is on Jacob's side. Eliose and Whitmore are connected (Ferraty's parents), however, Eloise is the one that told Jack and co. that they need to get back to the island, the means of doing so and that Jack had to bring Locke in the coffin with Christian's clothes (or something of his fathers). I believe Ben also told Jack to speak to Eloise (correct me if I'm wrong here). All of this leads me to believe she is on MIB's side. Did she know that Smokey would be able to take over Locke's dead body? It sort of seems that way and why she gave such explicit instructions on how Locke needed to be transported. Also, Jacob was trying to help Whitmore get to the island. This makes it appear that they are on the same team, but it is making more sense that Whitmore is with MIB. Also, another disconnect is that Ben has been on Jacob's side this whole time. If Whitmore is also on Jacob's side, that would not make sense since Ben and Whitmore are enemies. We also still do not know if Ben was telling the truth when he said Whitmore was coming to exploit the island. Maybe he is coming as part of the main plan with Jacob?
Woah, I know that was a lot of rambling. Hopefully these answers will be revealed over the course of the season, but I'd love to here what everyone else thinks!
Okay I'm back! Lots of comments, impossible for me to get to them all. But it looks like you guys are talking to each other which is GREAT! I'll just fill in where I feel necessary! Hurley Ate Me - Love your thoughts....one comment on Jacob. Richard has seen him too (we think, but you could be right that no one has seen him). Well, everyone he touched has seen him, they just didn't realize it was jacob when it happened!
Anonymous with the Hatch Implosion/underwater stuff...i was following you until you started saying that 2004 the island was underater and in 2007 it isn't. We are witnessing 2 different timelines...one where 815 crashed and one where it didn't. the 2007 we are seeing on the island is still where 815 crashed. The 2004 we are seeing is the sideways timeline where it didn't. Somehow these 2 stories are linked, but we don't know how yet.
Nice thinking victoria with the whole affair thing. I didn't even think of that angle!
Anonymous with the Kwon vs. Austen comment...thanks for the props btw....I agree that it could be Kate, but I wonder then why Ilana didn't ask about Austen when she was at the temple rambling off names of where everyone was? She said Shephard, Reyes, Ford, Jarrah and Kwon I think. But i'd have to double check.
Jeremy Bentham Ghost...I agree that it may seem excessive with the sideways story telling...and i had the same concern before the season started that this would get old fast...but i'm really enjoying it....and with the producers keep pounding it in our heads that this story IS important and it DOES tie into the world we've been following...it makes it that more intriguing. They have told everyone to be patient and say that this story is essential to the LOST Saga..it's a story that HAD to be told. This show has always been about waiting for answers....and we may even find out in the finale we're still looking for answers....but there will still be a conclusion...a sense of closure. I'm excited to see what they have in mind!
Rick - same comment as above...i don't know if the bomb ever went off in the Sideways universe. But it could have something to do with it. But then why would he have wanted to stay on the Island?
Katie - I think the whole Miles thing with the diamonds was meant to be funny...but it is interesting to speculate on him taking the dark path! No thoughts on Smokey and other crew taking out the beach crew. Maybe they're still essential to Flocke's plan? Maybe he doesn't care what they do as long as he can leave the island?
Anonymous - interesting take on the Live Together/Die Alone and Jacob and Smokey. could be right! I dunno...
Courtney - didn't Jacob show up at people's lowest points too? (according to Smokey?) But yeah...it's very true that MIB has been doing it as well. Probably not a coincidence. Yes very ironic on the religious tie-ins with my comment on Jacob's thought process.
Ghost (again) - Unfortunately, I can already tell you you're probably going to be upset by the end of LOST. They have already said that they're not going to answer the question to "What is the Island?" Maybe we'll get something, but it's not going to be an in-depth answer like The Garden of Eden, or some alien planet! lol They may have suggested that someone would ask that question at some point this season though. As for who is good vs. who is evil...i think that is a valid question to be asking and I think we will get SOME form of an answer to that one. I really don't think the sideways stories are the END STATE of LOST...so I am keeping track of who is having a better life and who isn't for now...but i still think things are going to change and we're going to start seeing where this sideways thing is going. HAVE FAITH! As for Richard's backstory...be patient...it's coming. To your "focus on answers" comment....i still say this show has always been about the characters....and they can't abandon that format in the final season.
I'm gonna post and go for the next round of comments! yikes
Mike, you stated:
"I just have been thinking though if they really did "RESET TIME" the incident would have never happened because the LOSTIES never would have been back there to bring jughead to the hatch anyway. The whole thing gets my mind all twisted if I think about it too long!"
I absolutely disagree with you on this. I think you are missing the point of Darlton's message about time travel here, at least as they went to great pains to spell out in the Miles-Hurley conversation in last season's episode.
I don't have time to go into this (or to restate my theory) more at this moment, but I will come back and work on swaying your mind! ;-)
I'll just say for now that it seems very clear to me that both are possible -- and so far, nothing on the show has disproved the evidence for that perspective (as I can see it, and I'd be happy to be proven wrong.)
(Awesome episode by the way! I am sucking the nectar out of every episode in full appreciation of the fact that we'll never have all these mysteries in front of us as they are right now again! So it is the time to Carpe Diem and Enjoy, baby!
One more thing: I suspect that Flocke recruited Ben NOT to become the Island’s protector (remember his empassioned statement that the island didn’t need protecting), but instead to kill Ilana. He likely cannot kill her himself (she is one of the Old Ones, the rules apply), and he realizes that she will carry a vendetta against him for orchestrating the killing of Jacob. So he needed someone else to off her so he wouldn’t have to worry about her in the future.
Mad props on the blog, Mike! I have been reading for two years and am finally commenting for the first time. I can honestly say I have read every single comment this season and everybody's got some great ideas flowing.
@KDH - Interesting points on Widmore being on Flocke's side but... see below.
@Jessica - Desmond could still be on his way!
@Trent - That would be an amazing twist if all Jacob's candidate-touching flashbacks happened in the alternate timeline. Pretty much impossible but still a really cool thought.
@MJ - Mader did say in an interview that she was coming back to Lost in an "unexpected" way ;).
Multiple commenters are saying they like the island version of our losties better than the alternate timeline folks and that they are not better off in the sideways world. I'm not sure how things will end up, but for now it seems pretty obvious that the sideways losties are making healthier and more responsible life choices.
Main point I wanted to make falls in line with David's comments. Jacob has always had an intricate plan based on the choices he knew others would make (including MIB). I think it's pretty clear he knew what would happen with Locke/MIB and that he himself was going to die. He hoped/wished he was wrong about Ben but still knew the ultimate result and it is all part of his grand plan. The one person who is truly being deceived is Flocke/MIB as he thinks he has accomplished so much when in reality he only has what Jacob has given him in order to accomplish his (Jacob's) plan.
Just my thoughts :).
David - I agree...let's wait until the story is over then we can complain about their level of answering. Even if there is a ton of questions at the end of this show, I'm still gonna look back at an amazing ride for 6 years. The journey is always more exciting than the finish.....I think we're going to enjoy the speculation that we have had over the years more than the actual answers we get. And I think this is how it SHOULD be! If they answer these things too detailed, they run the risk of it being too heavy handed, too boring, too confusing...and underwhelming. Leaving a shade of mystery around it could be exactly what this show needs to do. I know that won't satisfy everyone. As for Jacob's lack of presence...there has been no information on the show to PROVE Jacob not existing in this other timeline....it is just speculation at this point since we haven't seen him...and well...the island is underwater! lol
KDH - You're welcome...thanks for reading! Someone mentioned the same thing you did in the above comments...i think it's definitely a good thing to point out. Flocke seems to be telling anyone what they want to hear if it benefits him. We'll see!
Thanks Anonymous! - it's a good question on summoning smokey. I still think when people explained Smokey as a "security system" for the Temple or the Island or whatever....it's still accurate. I think MIB did have a job to do on the Island (probably assigned by Jacob)....and there was a threat on the island....Ben, the leader of the others, summoned the security system to eliminate the threat. I think Smokey still was doing his job. I'm not sure who really knew that he was "going rogue" It seems the Temple Crew knew once Jacob was dead what was going on. So, I think there is more to hash out there.
Anonymous who found the blog a month ago. THANKS!! I love the discussions on here as well and I'm glad you love the recaps! Interesting on Widmmore coming to help MIB get people off the island. I didn't even consider that! I wonder how if flocke can leave the island in SMOKEY form? Like if he gets off the island...would he still be a smoke monster? Could he terrorize the whole world? lol That would be an interesting spin on this show. I'm pretty confused to where Widmore plays into this too...he did seem to be on the Anti-Jacob side since we know Bram tried to recruit Miles for his side instead of going to the island on Widmore's payroll. I think Widmore is coming to the island for this WAR he told Locke about last season....Hopefully, we'll get a whole lot more information on this guy! We definitely need a Charles vs. Ben showdown!
J.dot - I think this episode clearly stated that there is a chance that BOTH of them are candidates....Ilana didn't rule that out either...so I think you're right that we can't dismiss it.
AUStarwars - you blew your cover as a random poster!! LOL
KDH (again!) - Looks like you commented on Widmore too just like I did...and stated some of the same reasons. Good stuff! (if you can't tell..when i get far behind...i just go comment by comment and respond as I go! lol)
Well said Anonymous on summing up the frustration vs. faith in writers! I still agree that wiping out everything from seasons 1-6 to get to that sideways story would be disappointing. But we'll see how they would handle it if that's the case. I'm still hoping they have another trick up their sleeve that we're not quite seeing yet. That way AUStarWars won't be upset when we find out the Epilogue Theory is true....because that would be for a "Popcorn Crowd!" LOL
Trent - I actually thought about that possibility and was going to bring it up in this blog...but I only have so much time to type my recaps before heading to work. Actually...when Wheelchair Locke was "PUSHING" Ben to run for Principal...it seemed like something the MIB might try to do. But i felt I was really reaching and I didn't want to think about the implications....that maybe Sideways Locke isn't even Locke! LOL But I do like the thought that maybe Sideways Land is MIB's attempt at the Island Game and Regularville is Jacob's Attempt.....and in the end Jacob is trying to prove MIB that HE is wrong...and that it only ends once...and that his progress led somewhere. Yikes...i have no idea what i'm talking about!
Jessica - thanks for giving a name! I'm surprised how many people post as Anonymous, not that there's anything wrong with that! lol There is a theory floating around that maybe MIB and Jacob are the same person...it was discussed on certain podcasts and even on this blog last week. I"m not a subscriber of the theory...but it definitely is something to consider! I just go back to the fact that we saw 2 men talking on the beach...we saw 2 men interacting with each other in the statue....it seems to me that there are 2 people. I would hope the LOST brains are a little smarter than copying that MOVIE that I will not spoil (yet again)! lol (released in 1999 - hint SOAP ...research if you dare!) I saw your follow up comment too btw... I think we will be able to tie some aspects of the LOST story back to religious aspects...but I don't think it will be the LITERAL Jacob and Esau from the Bible that are battling! But i don't think that's what you meant either! lol I'm hoping your last 2 sentences are really what's going down. The beautiful thing about LOST is that they are always holding certain information from us so it's impossible to guess their next move. Yes, little things along the way like linking Richard to the Black Rock over several episodes are things we can guess...but BIG moves for the show are their specialty. I never saw that Flash Forward coming! I love that about the show!
David - I would agree that we can't assume that Jacob is on the same side as widmore even with him trying to get Widmore there. Good analogy with the tapestry! Good points on what jacob said to the individuals as well. He just flat out apologized to Locke too! poor guy lol
whew home stretch -
MJ - Agreed on the Kate/Sawyer/Jack thing...even if it's not the largest mystery of the show...it needs to be resolved one way or another! Desmond and Penny were definitely the TRUE love story of LOST. but Juliet and Sawyer were a close 2nd. Damn..forgot bernard and rose too! (i'm literally writing to your comment as i read it lol) Yikes...charlotte as the baby mama? hmmm not sure if I'd go for that.... I think we need to see Daniel and Charlotte together in this timeline. Actually that could make sense. Daniel is Charlotte's new man....and he continued to teach David piano! lol
Tracy - thanks so much for the compliments! Glad you like the blog! All good questions with Eloise....I don't think ben told Jack to speak to her though. But yeah..what was up with her demanding Locke's body needing to be on the plane. Did the Island REALLY require the flight be recreated as best as possible? I think the best recreation of the flight would have had to be Sideways Flight 815....wait a sec...hmmmmm Nope, no idea where I was going with that one! anyway, very interesting questions! I have no answers! lol
I finally thought I caught up and see Glenn and a few others have posted now...yikes!
Glenn R- I agree with you about Flocke not killing Ilena, I don't think he can kill any of Jacob's chosen ones. He definitely wants to use Ben some more and knows that he's lost and vulnerable. I also think Ben may have been misguided in the past and actually been told to do things in the name of Jacob, but it was actually MIB telling him in some form. I just think Ben is easily influenced. Also, Mike V, you mentioned about them not telling us what the Island is, but I know for a fact they are going to tell us. If anyone is interested there is a clue floating around out there on cyberspace that they gave Kristen D at E!. I am not going to say what the clue is because I don't want to give a way a spoiler, but it's definitely a fun game floating around the internet to try to figure out the clue. I still don't think Widmore is the one Jacob is trying to guide to the Island. I think they're trying to make us think that right now, but I actually think it's going to be Desmond or Elouise that he is trying to bring back.
hey mike,
i thought of that too, but to me, Jacob didn't always come at low points in everyone's life. Sometimes he was there for a happy event (Jin and Sun's wedding) or just on ordinary days (when he got in the cab with Hurley). He helped Kate not get into trouble and he also seemed to somewhat cause Sayid's wife to die by stopping him and asking for directions (however i think of this moment as Jacob SAVING Sayid. because had Sayid been walking right alongside his wife when the car came, he would have definitely pushed Nadia out of the way and been killed himself.)
So he really switches it up with all the different characters, but in the end i think that Jacob came to them at IMPORTANT times in their life, not necessarily low times and not necessarily trying to guide them to do bad things like MIB does.
The whole "Richard wanting to kill himself or for someone to kill him"... I don't buy it. I think Richard was playing Jack to get Jack to do what Jacob wants. When he tells Hurley "Don't believe a word he says", he just wants them to think that he does not want the same thing as Jacob. Richard knew that jack needed a "push or a shake" which he provided in the form of dynamite.
However, I am probably completely wrong on this :^)
Glenn, I totally get the Whatever Happened Happened conversation. I was the biggest proponent of it last season because DARLTON were big proponents of it. I think it still applies to the Island timeline...hence nothing changed...Jack and crew went back to 2007 and the Hatch and everything was just how they left it. But, if we're to treat this Sideways universe as a universe where Flight 815 never crashed on the Island...then they NEVER went to the island...they never time traveled back to the past...henceforth...they could not have been motivated to try and CHANGE the past...by detonating a bomb! We aren't even sure if the Sideways Universe has anything to do with Jughead blowing up...it could be something totally different. Yes, Juliet said it worked...but that's all we're going on right now. I'm waiting for more info and look forward to your explanation! lol
Interesting theory on Ben/Ilana/Smokey too...I like it...we'll see how it goes!
Wow Bryan...you were able to hold out on commenting for 2 years!?!? Very strong...welcome to the other side and thanks for the mad props! very impressive on reading all of the comments...you and i might be the only ones! LOL I agree that Desmond could still be on his way...in fact, i'd be quite disappointed if he didn't return to the Island before the end. Darlton make it sound like they have really big plans for ol' Des. can't wait!
Agreed that right now Sideways world looks like a "happier and better" place for the Losties....but I keep thinking that is going to change lol I keep waiting for them to flip something on us!
Sounds pretty good with your main point...it seems to be where this is headed! I'm still waiting to be sold on Jacob being someone they can trust but I'm enjoying the wait! Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
Whew...i can finally go home! lol
Jessica...no spoilers please! Like i said...i did hear a rumor that the question will be asked on the show. But Darlton also said that their answer to "what the island is" won't be descriptive to the level of explaining Midichlorians in the force.
It could be simply stated as "it's a place where miracles happen" lol But...I will wait to be surprised myself! If they're going to answer it, then great! If not, I'm cool with that too!
Courtney...good point on the "important times" in their life. That makes sense!
Weasel, I liked your prologue theory...but I ain't buying this one! LOL Hope you are okay with me being that blunt! :-)
I wonder if Hurley and Sayid were touched before 815 crashed. Getting touched after does not explain how they survived the crash.
@Jessica. Thanks for the alert as the E! writer knowing the answer of all answers. I found the clue you were talking about... (gotta love Google). It's not really too much of a spoiler, because it is only a clue... However, it may be a spoiler as to WHEN we will find out :)
I wondered to about Hurley and Sayid being visited by Jacob AFTER they escaped the island as part of the Oceanic 6.
Also wondered why the transmission broadcast with the repeating numbers could be heard on the Ajira 316 flight in 2007? Y'know, the broadcast that Hurley's fellow patient in the asylum knew and the husband of the strange lady that Hurley visited in Australia referenced. I think Rousseau recorded her message over it - I can't remember for certain.
@horseman: I was wondering the same thing. They were touched AFTER they got back home.
@Mike V: I read every comment as well :P. Also, one of the reasons I like your comment section so much is that you ARE blunt!
Mike V- Yes, you're right, I wasn't saying it would be the exact story of Jacob and Esau, But I do think it will be a version of the story: ie: 2 brothers fighting against each other for leadership and Esau will be MIB's name. But, I don't know it almost seems to obvious and Lost is never obvious and always misleading so it could just be the writers messing with us and MIB's name will end up being Bob! LOL!
David- Good call on the Tapestry analogy, I meant to point that out, but got lost in my train of thought and forgot.
I think it's great that Bryan took the time to comment after 2 years! Nice, great input and I too just started commenting today. I just have so much bottled up about this show and no one to discuss it with :( I only know 1 other person who watches the show and she just doesn't put as much effort into picking it apart. Everyone else I know doesn't have the patience to wait for all the answers. Ha, I'm sure though when this is all said and done people will be talking about this show and it will bring outsiders in to watch the whole series. It's how I got started and now I am completely hooked! It's like mental crack!
Oh yeah... LOL I totally thought it was cheese carrots, but then it dawned on me a few seconds after Hurley said it that he said curds. I think that is the name of one of the Darma Initiative snacks they found from the ballon that crashed way back when.
Sorry Mike, I was pretty sure I didn't give any spoiler away with the comment, just wanted to let those who were interested know if they looked it up they could find it. I never said anything else regarding the actual clue. I hope that's okay. I would never ruin anything for others because I know how touchy spoilers are with this show in particular.
No apologies necessary Jessica! You didn't spoil anything. I was just letting you know I didn't want to know what you know! Ya know? Lol
Weasel- lol i do what I can!
Others - I'll post more when I'm off my phone!
Thanks Mike, I really think there are no true spoilers out there. I have tried to find things because the suspense is killing me and there isn't much out there. The writers are doing a great job of keeping everyone guessing, even those of us who are looking, and I think you shouldn't take to heart too much of what “Darlton” say in some of the interviews you've mentioned because I think they are just throwing us off with interviews. They aren't going to give anything away. I'm glad, because truthfully I want to be just a shocked as the next person when the cord finally does unravel. This is why my gut tells me that Jacob is still the good guy even though they told us not to make any assumptions. They could just be messing with us to drive us all towards Lost insaninty! But regardless it's so much fun to discuss theories with fellow Losties who are just as anxious as you are to know the out come. I tried to explain to my boyfriend the other night what the show was about because he’s never watched the show and wants to know why I’m so obsessed and I just finally told him it's an addicting show that no one really knows the plot too, but it's just an AMAZING show and I can’t explain why!!
Anon 9:09, you forgot for Dr. Arnzt - carpy parking space.
Thanks Mike for the Doc Jensen heads up in your blog. I read his recap too (yours is much better and more clear), but I was so thrilled to see that he too thinks Ben was mislead from the start in thinking that he was doing Jacob's "will" and in fact was doing the work of MIB. This just confirmed my suspicion. Does anyone else have insight/opinion on this?
Jessica- In response to your comment about Ben not doing Jacob's will, but doing MIB's: I think that is a really interesting thought.
We don't know for sure who is "good" or "evil" yet (or possibly both have good and evil) but as far as I can remember, I have not seen Jacob do or condone anything evil yet (people please correct me if I'm forgetting something).
But my point is, Ben seems to have done so many evil things (gassing all the Dharma people, manipulating, kidnapping and striking fear into people, killing Locke etc) and this just doesn't seem in line with the little we know about Jacob and what he's all about.
So where is Ben getting all of this evil tendencies from? I don't know. I suppose we can assume it started after Sayid shot him and Richard brought him into the pool but said he would never be the same.
I feel like I have rambled a lot, but to tell you my thoughts, it doesn't seem logical that these evil things Ben did were Jacob's "will".
Mike- Random question, its about the reflections in the flash sideways (which I'm so glad you pointed out bc I would have never noticed!) you mentioned that Sayid's reflection in his flash sideways looked "off".
How so? And do you think that this is implying that he is on the "bad" side, and the others with normal reflections are on the "good" side?
I'd be curious to see if there is a Claire-centric flash sideways and if we see a reflection of her, if it will be "off" as well.
One other random question, in last week's episode when Flocke and Claire are outside the temple and Flocke wants to send Claire in, she say "why can't you send Jin or Sawyer?" Are we supposed to assume that Jin and Sawyer have now been "claimed" by Smoke Monster in the same way Claire and Sayid have been? If so, we'll have to look out for their reflections as well!
Gosh, I sure hope Sawyer and Jin haven't been "claimed"! especially Sawyer!
Still posting from my phone so I am just responding to what I can! So the mirror/reflection thing. Again I was rushing in the blog but I did note that it was "in the script" that Jorge Garcia noted on his podcast. There is nothing in the actual episode that would have let us know something was off. But I found it interesting that they would put something like that in the script especially when jack is getting so confused when he looks in the mirror!
In Sundown, Sayid's reflection in the door looks almost like a harlequin - perfectly divided between light and dark. This probably reflects his true nature.
What makes me think that Jacob is good and Flocke is bad is that Flocke manipulates via promises (I'll bring back Nadia, I'll make you Protector of the Island) or lies (the Others have your baby.)
As was demonstrated so beautifully in Lighthouse and again last night in the Ben/Miles interchange over Jacob's last thoughts, Jacob allows people to come to a decision without overt manipulation.
Most of the other candidates saw dead friends/relatives/enemies (shapes presumably taken by the Smoke Monster), but Kate saw a horse. Was that the Smoke Monster? Why did she see something so different from the rest?
Would it be cheating if Miles and Lapidus were "secret candidates" who Jacob did not record?
KDH- Yes, that's exactly my point about Ben, all the things he's done in the past were very evil and he was always under the impression he was doing Jacob's work, but it doesn't match up with what we know about Jacob. Someone has been feeding him instructions ever since he was shot as a boy and brought to the temple and that someone has always been Richard. What if Richard is really not working for Jacob, what if he was just instructing Ben to do things in the name of Jacob, but it was really for MIB. I know Richard was terrified when he saw MIB as Flocke for the first time and he ran away from him and refused to join him, but there could be a reason for that that we don't know yet. Also Ben's dead mother's Ghost led him out of Darmaville and into the jungle where he first met Richard and we pretty much know that MIB takes on the form of dead people to influence the people he is after. It just seems like it all comes together that Ben was led to believe he was serving Jacob/Island, but he was being used instead and was changed when Richard brought him to the temple for "healing". Richard did warn Kate and Sawyer that he would never be the same once they took him in the healing water.
Anybody who didn't like this episode is a damn fool. ;)
Great recap. Like the epilogue theory but don't think that it is possible unless the dead are reborn.
I thought he said cheese curds
Cheese CURLS makes a lot more sense, doncha think? :D
Mike V
It seems to me that Hurley is taking the path of a Richard replacement maybe!! He is delivering messages from Jacob and everyone seems surprised when the hear "jacob told me" Could he be a replacement for richard?
Remember when Hurley had a secret stash of food? I am pretty sure part of that stash was a bag of cheese curds... He opened them up and dumped them all over the jungle in one episode. I don't remember the episode name, but I think that's what he was dreaming of.
It was the episode "Dave" and he takes Libby to his stash and rips open bags of junk food and dumps bottles of Ranch all over the jungle.
Cheese curds, Cheese curls, cheese carrots! Whatever! Hurley loves food! lol As for the episode Dave, I don't remember the exact food he had in his stash, but there very well could have been cheese curds! lol
HurleyAteMe...i don't know if Richard sees Ghosts though...that might be a difference lol It doesn't seem like Richard was groomed as a candidate to replace Jacob ever. But I guess we don't know for sure yet! I really don't know if I'm on board with our candidates just resuming the POSTS of these Island Dwellers and that's how the show ends. I feel like there needs to be some sense of FINALITY to it. And Jack ending up as protector of the Island (or any of them for that matter) in the end....seems like there is an opening for a MOVIE down the road. Know what I mean? I have no idea how this whole thing is going to end...and that's what makes it exciting!
Thanks Rhino! I think the whole thing with the epilogue theory is that a "RESET" has to be in order...so they aren't really reborn...they just NEVER DIED. But I don't think i really like the epilogue theory the more I think it through...just seems too easy. But we'll see what twists they have coming our way!
Man that's a lot of comments again! I'm gonna have to try and revisit some tomorrow if I get a chance. If not, please don't be offended. I'm trying to keep on top of all of this! Loving the discussion as always though. Keep it up guys!
Hi Mike V! Props on the blog... to you & everyone else for making this great place where we can all go to have intelligent discussion about everything we love/hate about Lost.
I am the wife of Weasel, and have been a faithful watcher from the beginning but only started reading the blog this season myself. better late than never.
A few things-
This was a great episode.
Cheese Curds :)
I am NOT a fan of the sideways lost theory being the end game. YUCK. that would just invalidate everything we have come to know and love about the characters we have been watching in every episode before this season started. I would be very disappointed if they "erased" the characters like that.
I could care less about the Jack/Kate/Sawyer love triangle it's overrated. Sawyer & Juliet, Des & Penny were better, and Rose & Bernard (I still think they are Adam and Eve) and am not even a fan of them writing a son into Jack's sideways story.
Des/Penny had better be on their way to stop her Daddy. :)
I totally cried when Ben had his moment with Ilana & was so glad he chose to go to the beach. LOVE THAT THEY ARE BACK AT THE BEACH AGAIN! :)
The notes in the enhanced episode said that Kate "knows that Locke is on the wrong side" so that leans more towards MIB is evil.
And we can't be sure that Sawyer and Jin are with MIB. as it was pointed out we haven't seen either of them for a couple episodes. we can't go by what Claire said to MIB about why can't you just send one of them... He lied to her about other things, what is to say he didn't lie about them also being on his side. maybe she was just assuming as did he that sawyer is on his side, still loving the long con theory myself. don't dig sawyer as a sheeple, and Jin said that he was her friend, only to avoid her axing him like the Templeton, he couldn't have run far in his condition.
Lapidus would have been dead if he was on the original flight...
And Ben did manage to manipulate his way into getting his History club back, I think he just kinda threw that in there at that moment because Alex was there, don't think that was part of their "agreed upon terms"... but the principal agreed so as to not look like a jerk. :) Gotta love Ben. He might not have been one of the "main characters" but the story would not be the same if he weren't there.
Rambled long enough... have a good night all.
Just a thought on the Jacob/Esau theory. Jacob ends up pleading for Esau's forgiveness, and the two brothers reconcile, becoming the two fathers of the Isrealites (Jacob) and and the Edomites (Esau) and are never at war. Just doesn't seem to add up to Lost, so I don't think we should get caught up in this theory.
Mike, thanks for the response. It's really cool that you take the time to respond to everyone's comments. That, and the thoroughness and insightfulness of your recaps, make this a really great blog (the only one I use for Lost).
I still do have hope for this season, plenty of it. Look at Season Three. The first six or so episodes were a waste, and the rest of the season was amazing (including my favorite episode ever, the finale). So I certainly haven't given up, and I'm well aware of the fact that I could be eating my criticism of Sideways Land by the end of the season.
I don't expect all of the answers now, so that's not what's troubling me. I just feel like the show is stalling, or at least moving in slow motion. Yes, we're seeing progress and development of the plot. But we get about one really interesting piece of information per episode, and usually see a lot of filler in between. That's time that could be spent answering other questions, even smaller ones, or delving more seriously into the characters. Instead we get a lot of inconsequential stuff, like Jack and Dogen debating about whether to give Sayid the pill (I know I'm harping on that, but it epitomizes what's frustrating me about this season).
It just doesn't seem like the writers are taking seriously the fact that they have very little time to answer the tall stack of questions they've piled up for five seasons. I know they're not going to answer everything. That's fine. But it's really gratifying to finally get answers and getting them makes the episodes more exciting. The big ones are the best, but toss us some bones even. Heck, I'll take Shannon's inhaler and the like over getting to know characters that are introduced and dead within a half-dozen episodes.
Anyway, I know I've been coming off as being quite negative the whole time and I really don't mean to be. I'd watch Lost no matter what, and debate it with my friends and on here no matter what. I just hate to see them squandering precious time when there's so little left because has been so great and I really think it can be better now than it is.
Hello! I have a random thought on Juliet's last thoughts of "it worked" ... Miles says that he can tell what people's last thoughts were. So, these are Juliet's last thoughts, correct? I don't think we can link this to whether or not Jughead worked in changing things and that's why we have sideways land, because Juliet never saw anything happen to make her think they had changed the past/future/whatever... so why would she think that it worked in accomplishing this task?
I think she meant that "it worked" in the sense that she knew she was dying and wouldn't have to feel heartbroken over her break-up with Sawyer (remember her comments in The Incident?)... what do you guys think?
Quick comment on Sayid's reflection in alt-universe. I tried to figure it out when the episode replayed this week, and all I can see is that half of his face looks normal and the other half is kind of dark... but it could just be the glass! What do you think Mike? Great blog btw!
Me again! With another random thought... I really don't think the sideways timeline is a result of Jughead, because how would this incident on a remote Pacific island change so many things, like Jack has a son now and Rose and Bernard live in L.A. and Shannon stayed with her crappy boyfriend and Desmond was flying from Sydney to LA too?
I'm kind of starting to agree with people saying that the sideway stories are wasting our time... I think the writers could make their points in fewer scenes and devote more time to the island (i.e. they could have left out the scene with Ben convincing Arzt to get the e-mails... was that really necessary? We could have just assumed that Ben is good with computers in this timeline and did it himself...) Just saying... :)
Woah, its been about 40 hours and there are 108 entries :S and yes, i think i did see on cnn news that Mike V was gifted 100 shares in Kenko for the massive order he places just after the season premier when he realised how demanding we were on here :D
Okay, im going to take time to read through all the thoughts but before i do, quick mentions from the episode
BEST LINE - Miles, after revealing that Ben killed Jacob, walks off screen past Ben and says..........
"UT-OH"
AMAZING :D
And finally, Richard couldnt kill himself because he was touched by Jacob, and so was Jack, so that might be way the dynamite didnt go boom, but also remember Michael couldnt kill himself either, that was pretty mystical, i mean in theory nothing human can stop someone from blowing their own spaghetti off the plate right?
I think we will see more of the magical powers that Jacob and MIB have, i mean MIB can pop shackles off Ben with his mind.
Was great seeing Ben broken again :P
What an actor :D
Did i say 40? wow that was weird, i just sort of converted GMT to CST, got confused and then counted 2100CST tuesday to 0730GMT Thursday and bam my head has blown up. Okay maybe i need to take a week off work and get some sleep :P
It has been 27 and a half hours since the show finished, and i imagine you didnt get a chance to post the blog until the morning Mike so make that like 17 hours and 108 comments :D
Tooo Much Coooofffeeeeeee, watch out mike, trying to take over Kenco
Jessica, I totally agree with you that the things that Ben did were most likely being guided/manipulated by MIB all the way through, maybe even from the time he was resurrected in the temple after being shot by Sayid. Ben was the first half of his necessary conditions to create the loophole to kill Jacob.
It becomes even more fascinating when you consider the efforts MIB went to to fulfill the second half of the loophole -- leading Locke down a path which led him to become MIB's ultimate sacrifial lamb!
After he had Ben effectively under his wing, he had to bide his time and wait for the right candidate to come to the island to fulfill the second half of the loophole. Namely, someone with the right combination of idealism and vulnerability to manipulate down a path which would lead to him being able to take over a new body. At first he was leaning toward Eko, but ultimately Eko defied his manipulations, and so killed him. Next came Locke, who played the perfect victim.
There is a fascinating, very detailed theory out there that suggests that every single jump in time last season was manipulated by MIB with the express purpose of guiding Locke down the final stages of becoming MIB's ultimate sacrificial pawn. I was blown away when I first started thinking about that. But it made a lot of sense. Something unique and important happened to John Locke in every single time jump which ultimately, in combination, led him to leave the island and return a dead man, body intact and ready for MIB's use.
Wow, no wonder MIB had such a reflective, satisfied look in his eye when he responded to Jacob's statement in the season 5 finale, right before Jacob is killed -- "Indeed I did [find my loophole]. And you have no idea what I've gone through to be here." Indeed he did... go through a lot!
Here's a thought, Mike- What if it was the shooting of young Ben by Sayid that made Roger decide to leave the island. Would any self-respecting father stay on that island after his son was shot and almost died? (In combination with all the other bizarre and violent events that led up to the incident, as well as the Incident)
And to take it one step further... what if that experience (of almost losing Ben) is what actually made Roger have a change of heart about his relationship with his son, and commit to being a better father? Which led us to the Ben we are witnessing in Sidewaysland?
Mike... it is my belief that you did get tripped up by the time stuff. When you are saying that "the incident would have never happened because the LOSTIES never would have been back there to bring jughead to the hatch," I believe that you are missing one major point -- that that statement is true for the Sideways reality characters only, but it is NOT TRUE for the original timeline characters and reality.
In other words -- What we are watching in Season 6 Sideways reality is indeed the reality that happens "if the plane never crashes." But the original plane crash is what led to the Sideways reality being different, and therefore it cannot be erased. So when Darlton say sideways is showing us what would have happened if the plane did not crash, I believe they are leaving out one significant point -- it's more than that just if the plane did not crash -- it's also showing what would have happened if Faraday was right about the variables, and Jack was successful, and their lives were changed by the incident. They are pulling their old trick of misleading us by not telling us everything.
To try and put it one other way -- THE PLANE CRASHING IN SEASON 1 WAS A CAUSAL EVENT WHICH ULTIMATELY LED TO THE PLANE NOT-CRASHING IN SEASON 6 SIDEWAYS REALITY. But you can't change the original causal event. Therefore the original Lost characters ALWAYS went back to the 70s.
Yes yes, I do agree that it is completely mindbogglingly KNOTS-IN-BRAIN Tying!
The reason I'm trying so hard to get this point across is because it is directly tied into my theory about Sideways. And while I'm not going to bet my life on this theory, I have to say that after the Dr. Linus episode, I still am searching for an anomaly or something to disprove it, but so far I haven't found it yet. So, I'm a tiny bit more dug in on believing it. But still wide open to finding the anomaly.
Man it's so difficult to explain this stuff! If I am not successful, I think I may have to grow a long beard and go and try to jump off a bridge in L.A. or something. But never fear. I'll try but won't be able to bring it to fruition - because I'm actually a candidate.
Oh, and Jessica -- I totally hear you about not having anyone in your immediate life who is into analyzing & dissecting the mysteries of Lost as much as me! It's so great to meet so many other mental crack lostheads out there! :-)
Yikes...more comments!!! whew...if it keeps getting out of hand (which make no mistake...I love it!) I'm going to just have to let you guys keep talking and just post here and there. Yeah, I know myself too well for that but it's tough to keep up!
Kimaaaaay - nice name and thanks for the props!! As for your choice in a husband...well.....JUST KIDDING! lol Nice of you to join us and sorry you just started reading this season! The Epilogue Theory....i'm not a fan either but i definitely like it better as the END GAME than if it would have been a total reset at the beginning of season 6 and we never saw how the island story wrapped up. I still think something different is going on though. Agreed that the relationships are not the highest priority...but call be a sucker for a good old fashioned romance story....I'm a closet Jater! lol
I saw that note on the Enhanced episode as well. Actually the full note was "In season 5 charles widmore told Locke if he didn't return to the island, the wrong side would win. This is the first time Kate is seeing the 'ressurected locke' and she knows he is on the wrong side" Very interesting! I would agree on Sawyer in Jin....even if they are with locke, i'm gonna say they're not "CLAIMED" like Claire and Sayid and all possessed like lol I think Sawyer will come around and team up with Kate and Jack for the greater good in the end. Well, I think all the losties will but that's something I have already mentioned a thousand times! WOULD Lapidus have been dead? We don't know if Smokey killed Parkman (lol Seth Norris) because he WASN'T Lapidus. I think Smokey did still serve a purpose on the Island before he was trying to get off of it. We don't know what that is though. Agreed on Ben! Thanks for sharing your comments Kim!
Anonymous - good call on the Jacob/Esau stuff...if this stuff doesn't build up into an Epic battle for the ages, I think there would be some disappointment lol Of course, LOST has never really been about big battles...sure we have had some nice action scenes, but contrary to what some have been saying...it's always been about the characters' redemption.
Jeremy Bentham Ghost...no problem...i do what I can! It's getting tougher though! Honored that this is your sole lost blog and thanks for the props! Definitely agree on season 3....i've actually written many times in defense of that season. everyone looks down on it and it's one of my favorites. I even liked the first 6 episodes, but I do know they were stalling...that was clear! But "Looking Glass" is one of the best episodes of dramatic television EVER! (The Constant being the other one)....love them! The problem with the sideways storytelling is it really could go either way. If it's not an AMAZING connection to the Island story....then we might look at it as wasted time....but if it ends up being awesome...these episodes are revisited in a totally different light. And of course, if you're just the casual viewer wanting to watch some good TV without worrying about your checklist of answers....it IS good TV! I think that's really all I want in the end. 6 seasons of a solid TV show that went out on its own terms. How can anyone ask for anything more? (I'm sure there are definitely different opinions there! lol)
I think Darlton have already gone on record saying that they aren't going to answer as much as we think. They said if the characters don't care about the answers, then they're not worrying about it either. They warned everyone at the beginning of the season that not every episode is going to be full of mythology and answers. They are writing a TV show and it has to be organic. They may have initially planned season 6 as "the season of answers" and I think it still is and will be....but when they finally got to it, they realized that some of the answers that "WE THINK" we want...are really not things that can be explained without taking away from the mystique of the show. Yeah, maybe it's an excuse. But, I'm fine with it. I trust that they'll find the right balance of answers vs. Midichlorians lol But, I'm a forgiving person when it comes to Team Darlton...those dudes just crack me up! lol
Bring on the negativity! I need to to keep me sane lol Sometimes I (we) need a reality check! :-)
Yikes, is it 7:11 already??? I gotta get ready for work! lol I'll try to get to everyone else later I promise!
"Mike... it is my belief that you did get tripped up by the time stuff. When you are saying that "the incident would have never happened because the LOSTIES never would have been back there to bring jughead to the hatch," I believe that you are missing one major point -- that that statement is true for the Sideways reality characters only, but it is NOT TRUE for the original timeline characters and reality. "
Glenn, I still need to read the rest of this when I get to work....but I agree with everything in that statement and it's how I'm viewing things....except the last word "REALITY" I think we're being told that both storylines are REAL! It might be taken out of context though...I'm gonna have to read the rest of what you're saying before I say much more...so hold your comments until i finish...i'm getting to it! LOL
don't sweat it, Mike. I think we all know that you are devoting a whole heckuva lot to your Lost peeps! Get to it when you can, and I for one fully respect your need to take whatever time you need to stay caught up with the rest of your life! We wouldn't want you to neglect your (clearly) very supportive wife, for one thing!
Btw, please give her some props of her own, would you? For sharing you with us! :-)
114 comments ! Wow - it's getting impossible to keep up any more.
Spoiler alert for those who do not want to know what actors/actresses are coming back...
Rousseau will be back according to Ausiello
Trent Frazier - excellent point ! Except maybe that Nadia was not with Sayid in Sideways world, and was with him when Jacob touched Sayid.
Glenn, I'm sure she will really appreciate you saying that! She definitely is very supportive....and may not have known exactly what she got into when she married me! lol (this is the first season as a married couple) But, there is a light at the end of the tunnel. May 24th.....sad for LOST, but good for the marriage! lol At least she loves LOST, so that helps. But, if she wants, she can give her perspective on the whole thing whenever SHE gets time lol Okay, I have some peeps to respond to then I'll get to your accusations of my understanding! :-)
Annie - Juliet, it would seem, had a vision of herself having coffee with Sawyer off of the island and splitting the bill. It was like her consciousness went to sideways land for a second (or that's what we're meant to speculate) It was very similar to Charlotte dying and her last words being about "not allowed to have chocolcate before dinner"....she was remembering the past and the first time she met time traveling daniel faraday. But now we're throwing a whole new thing with the sideways land. Yeah...we definitely don't have enough information to prove that it was jughead that caused this sideways timeline yet. So Juliet saying "it worked" could be her THINKING that jughead worked...but really just her crossing into this other timeline which we don't even know what it is. The reason i don't want to think Jughead worked is because I would be wondering how season 6's island timeline would play into things. I think we're missing some key piece of information that ties all of this together. Hence the many opinions on what is going on! lol But now that i see your last sentence I see where you're coming from. It's a possibility...but I would think that juliet's last thoughts would be more important in defining season 6 than that. See: coffee thing lol to your next post...I think the Sideways Timelines are showing the reprecussions of life without interference of THE ISLAND (or the powers that be on the island - e.g. Jacob)....so it is showing some kind of connection between these people and how they are mostly the same person but wired a little differently because of not having the Island's influence on their lives. I think we needed that scene with Ben and Arzt to show that Ben can still be a master manipulator and schemer but then we show that the whole thing ended differently than Island Ben would have done things. I don't agree with the concept of doing "LESS Sideways scenes" and more answers.....they're trying to tell a story...not just run through a checklist and give us answers. The story has to flow from beginning to finish and I think they're doing a solid job with it. We'll see!
Don't get me wrong...i have my frustrations with the sideways timeline as well. There were backstories that I still wanted more on like Desmond's....i want to see why he was dishonorably discharged. yeah, we can speculate that it was because of events in The Constant, but not for certain. Maybe the encylcopedia! I want Richard's Island back story (not an Islandless back story)...which I'm guessing we're going to get. I want the Black Rock Story (which I'm guessing is the same story).... So I think they'll find a way to deliver to us what we need. It won't be what each individual has built into their head was SUPPOSED to happen...but it will be what the writers decided is best and true to their vision of LOST.
Anonymous - Thanks for the props on the blog! I think someone else commented on Sayid's reflection too being light and dark.and i forgot to respond. I have no idea...i didn't notice anything "OFF" on the reflection but that definitely could be what it is. I don't know if each LOSTIE will see something different when they see their reflection or if the MIRROR/Reflection concept itself is something we should be keeping in mind for the whole Sideways Timeline and its connection to the Island timeline. It could be a combination of both. I really have no idea! But I can't wait to find out! (well maybe I can, because when we do find out....the show is probably over :-( )
Okay...i'm going to post and keep going through the comments!
I just noticed another thing....
Dogen mentioned that his son was 12 when the accident happened.
We can assume Dogen's son in Sideways world is 12 during the piano recital in Sideways land.
David Shephard in Sideways world looks like he is about 12 years old to.
Sayid mentions to Nadia in Sideways world that "for the last 12 years since the war he has been wracked with guilt" or something to that effect.
2004 minus 12 is 1992.
Are the crafty writers trying to tell us that something pretty important happened in 1992 in Sideways world in particular?
Just a thought!
Also wonder if Mikhail and Ilana know each other?Ilana was in a Russian hospital with one eye covered over in her Jacob flashback and Mikhail described Jacob as a "great man".
Matt - funny stuff on the CNN comment! I sure wish I was seeing profit from my efforts. But that's not why I do it (well...it certainly wouldn't hurt things! LOL)....i love the show and can't imagine NOT doing this. The "UH OH" from Miles was a good time...i'm a little mad at myself for not including it. His character has really come far since season 4 in the comedy perspective. Love it!
I definitely remember Michael couldn't kill himself also...and even mentioned it in the blog. Who is to say that Jacob didn't touch Michael also and then determine that he had served his purpose and is no longer a candidate? Remember the Christian Ghost (who possibly said he can speak for Jacob...if he's not MIB) told Michael he was done and then the freighter blew up? Maybe Jacob crossed michael off the list. Yeah...i get what you're saying though...how can Jacob physically cause this if he's human. Is it more the Island that provided these superhuman powers to Jacob and MIB....and all the other folks with abilities....when did this show become HEROES???? LOL Anyway...i'm as anxious to find out as you! And totally agree on Ben....Emerson is awesome! BTW he's a guest star on the Geromino Jack's Beard Podcast this week. (jorge garcia's podcast with his girlfriend Beth) Good times! No problem on the hours.....i definitely need sleep too! I posted the blog at about 8am Eastern time the day after. But if you factor in the time it took me to write the blog.....11-1:30am, 5-8am... (yep...i sleep a little) it's a little more! lol
Glenn, I'm at your comments now! Some great comments on the manipulation of Locke and the Time Travel aspect of it. I didn't even consider Smokey being behind that. Afterall, it was the wheel that was dislodged. I still want to know about Christian Shephard's role in all of this...and if he's been impersonated by Smokey PLUS just a Ghost vision on the Island.....I know we'll get that answer, but I'm getting impatient on that one! lol It just seems like it has to be both since he's appeared off island too.
What you're saying about Roger deciding to leave the Island because of Sayid shooting Ben. Remember when Richard said to Sawyer that bringing Ben to the Temple and healing him would cause him to LOSE HIS INNOCENCE? The Ben we see off island seems to be just fine. Sayid shooting Ben is what caused Ben to become the Ben we know....he went to the temple...and he forever became ONE OF THE OTHERS (Richard's words, not mine). Yeah...i see where you're going with it...the sideways timeline that we're seeing is the LOSTIES that were off Island while the LOSTIES we know were in the 70's causing the Incident. The LOSTIES we know returned to the future/present that THEY know.....and there are 2 distinct timelines. At least that's what I think you're saying. What I am saying is...we do not know yet if jughead caused the island to sink....we do not know yet if what we are seeing is a result of jughead. The producers even told us that!
If you're suggesting that this motivated Roger to leave the island it just doesn't make sense...because roger didn't leave the island in the original timeline because of it happening. If you're saying Roger left the island because of the incident and the incident DIDN'T happen that way originally...that the losties involvement was a NEW version of the incident....then maybe I can buy it. But i really don't think that's the case. I think what Miles said at the end of season 5 is how the events transpired....everything they did to contribute to the past and to the INCIDENT is what ALWAYS happened...the reason the hatch was built was to compress the energy that was set lose as a result of the drilling and also whatever happened with jughead. We even saw that Pierre chang injured his hand in this Incident which matches up with his prosthetic hand in the Swan Orientation Film (season 2). Now I didn't even read your next comment yet but this is my first comment based on what you said lol
okay...next Glenn comment... I'm not sure how you think it's tripping me up. I never said that this sideways timeline is as simple as the enhanced lost is putting it. They definitely are withholding information about the sideways timeline. I know that. I am just saying, like the producers are saying, we cannot ASSUME that it was jughead that caused it. And MY point is...if jughead DID cause it....or didn't cause it....it's a DIFFERENT timeline where the LOSTIES never went to the island. Therefore...if whatever happened happened still applies for pebbles and not boulders (this is Daniel's explanation of variables in the deleted scenes of season 5).....the LOSTIES were never on the island....Ben wasn't on the island to turn the donkey wheel and send Sawyer, Juliette, Charlotte, Daniel and crew back in time and forward in time. The US Military may have still gone to the island and brought jughead. But Daniel never told Ellie to bury it. Jack didn't get drunk, try to jump off a bridge and convince all of the LOSTIES to go BACK to the island leading them to 1977.....Sayid didn't shoot Ben because he never knew ben..... Daniel didn't spend 3 years in 1970's michigan to learn about variables....he actually probably wasn't even pushed to study science and he's a master musician. He didn't return to the island to set events in motion for the incident that we know had to have happened because it was all documented in his journal. Jack was never convinced by Daniel that he had to get the bomb and blow it up at the future Swan site.....it NEVER happened! That is what we're seeing in Sideways Land. Yes...Darlton is saying the 2 timelines are connected somehow...but i don't think that is how. I don't think we're seeing the direct result of the Incident in the SAME timeline.....it just doesn't make sense if that's the case. Not to me. I'm not tripped up...i'm thinking very clearly about this!
I see what you're trying to say that the original losties ALWAYS had to go back to the 70's even in the sideways land....but that's where I'm not following you. It just doesn't seem possible based on what I am seeing on the show. I also don't think they're going to hit us up with a solution that is so complicated that the casual popcorn viewer won't understand it! lol But you can go ahead and dump your sideways theory on me...and maybe it will make sense! lol
Yeah I think Jacob has you covered on the bridge thing! :-)
NICE MJ! Thanks for the heads up. I definitely am glad to hear that.
David...very good observation about 12 years being mentioned a lot. Perhaps 1992 is when the island sank in sideways land! Don't tell Glenn though! :-) lol
But didn't we find out that Ben was NOT talking with Jacob - he only told people he was ! Ben used the 'Jacob says' to control his people. And he has stated that gassing the Dharma people was not his order, he wasn't in charge at the time. He aslo admitted that he lied and made things up to keep them from leaving. I don't know that I would call Ben evil as evil is a very hard description to quantify - but he's not a good guy. He's a liar and a manipulator. And - if Dogen's story of his son is true then Jabob isn't so nice or great either. God asked someone to sacrifice his son, but stopped him before he actually could do it.
Here's a thought on Sideways world. This is the new reality of what happened when the Oceanic 815 did not crash in 2004.
As Jacob has pointed out before, they will find another way to get to the island because that is their destiny/fate.
This could all culminate in the final episodes as the island re-emerges from the sea as seen in present day.
The mirror reflections could be glimpses of the two timelines beginning to collide within their consciousness. Once all the piece get put together (as Jack has started to do) it will be over. The final episode will be one huge ?
Hate it or Love it. As long as they don't fade to black playing a Journey tune I'll be ok with it.
MJ, are you responding to a particular comment? I'm trying to figure out the context lol But yes, we did find out that Ben never spoke to Jacob. And I would agree that we do not know enough about Jacob to determine he is all good! Hence me suggesting that the real goal for the LOSTIES may be for them to get out of this game between the 2 of them! whatever that is lol
Anonymous, The day after the Sopranos Finale aired...they promised that is not how LOST will end lol But in retrospective, I did like that ending! Darlton did say we may not like how the show ends but again..in retrospective after thinking about it for a month or so...we may lol Makes you feel all warm inside doesn't it!? Good times....anyway..yeah that is one way i've been looking at sideways...somehow the 2 paths are going to intersect down the road...don't know how...don't know why. but i did think about the possibilities of all of these folks ending up going to the island anyway....i'm not sure how the island re-emerges from the sea or whatever though lol But we still have to find out why it's underwater in the first place! lol
Love, love, love, did I say that I love your blog MikeV! Keep up the great work....please!
My thoughts:
Didn't Benjamin Linus’ story of the island of Elba reminds you that sometimes the most substantial change is how the stagnation of one’s position drives them to the point of disrepair? Napoleon remained Emperor when he was exiled on Elba, but his power was false, and it eventually wore him down: this is the story of a man whose quest for power met a similar end, but it is also a story where change seems plausible and, in another universe, an established fact of life.
From this point forward, it might also be the driving force of this series. More to follow...
Charles Atherton
Now in a slightly negative tone, Jack lighting that fuse in the Black Rock was a moment that should have felt dangerous or tense if we really think about it, but it wasn’t. This is not only because we know that the show has no intention of killing Jack, nor is it just because we know that Richard Alpert has other stories to tell that will provide even more detail on his relationship with Jacob and the Black Rock (which we can now safely presume he arrived on, considering his comments regarding his return to the wreckage). Instead, it’s because that scene is the show writ small: Lindelof and Cuse have always been lighting fuses that we knew wouldn’t go off, and thus the tension and suspense is derived from what we learn when they fizzle out or, should they actually go off, what that explosion taught us about the island. Just like Richard and Jack are unable to die by their own hands sitting inside the hull of the Black Rock, this show will not die through the explosion of a single story. Just a microcosm of the whole series IMHO. More to follow...
Charles Atherton
Some might argue that, rather than that scene representing the series itself, the show is instead like Benjamin Linus digging his own grave as Ilana holds him hostage. Perhaps some feel that the show has been on borrowed time for a few seasons, simply driving further and further into insanity because their life has lost all meaning. I can understand some peoples' frustrations with this show.
But, I would tend to disagree with those people. I think that both of these sequences are meaningful to how we read the series as a whole. One scene proves that mortality has become subjective, something that the island is able to control (whether in terms of Richard’s lengthy existence or through Jack’s similar resistance to the dynamite’s potential effect). Meanwhile, Ben has his mortality placed into his own hands, forced to dig his own grave rather than having it dug for him. As one group wrestles with their lack of control, Ben comes to the realization that he gave away control of his own life a long time ago, and actually does something about it. Rather than accept the influence of another omnipotent figure within the island’s mythology, Ben chooses to stay with Ilana and the castaways. Recall that it was Ben's idea to head to the beach! I think he still knows something that none of us do...yet. And, similarly, Jack’s demonstration of the island’s power brings Richard back to the beach with Jack and Hurley, ready to try to adapt to his new situation. Yes, that final scene has both of these men separate from the others, each marked by their experience with Jacob and the toll it has had on their lives. However, both are at the point where they want to discover something more, whether it’s a chance to wash away their past sins or the answers to the questions that they gave their life away for. They are skeptical, and a bit scared, but they feel like they still have a role to play, and they need to embrace change (and choice) in order to do so. Still more to follow...
Charles Atherton
Of course, we as the audience are perhaps more curious about Richard than any other character at this point, and all Lost fans want Ben to play a prominent role, so we don’t tend to view them as outsiders so much as the other castaways do. Accordingly, the episode was a pleasure from a performance perspective: so much of this episode depended on both Nestor Carbonell and Michael Emerson, and both delivered some really great work. I’m guessing most will focus on Emerson, and rightfully so: on island (I’ll get to Off in a second) he was absolutely fantastic discussing Alex’s death with Ilana, and I could watch Emerson dig his own grave for an entire two hours if someone decided to turn it into a feature length film. (Hell, we watched Tom Hanks single-handedly deliver a great performance in Castaway didn't we?) But I think Carbonell deserves equal amounts of credit for playing Richard’s usual sense of mystery as a sort of wide-eyed insanity: he was still the same character, still talking in riddles and refusing to answer clear questions, but whereas before he was reassuring or even supporting, here he was sporadic and dangerous, unable to deal with the death he found at the Temple and unable to confront the idea that Jacob would abandon him without giving him a clear sense of why he was forced to walk this island for decades. Emerson got the more emotional material, certainly, but they were notes he has hit before: Carbonell was in less certain territory, and I thought he really brought it. Good for him! More to come....
Charles Atherton
This was also a big week for the Flash Sideways, which was certainly the closest parallel we’ve had yet to life on the island. It was, quite literally, the real world version of Ben sacrificing his “daughter” for the sake of the island: there were no explosive devices and no deaths, but Ben was put in a position where he could gain ultimate power over a high school (read: the island) if he is willing to throw away his student (read: daughter) Alex’s chances at Yale (read: her life) in order to take down the evil Principal Reynolds. Power is a tricky thing, and from what we know about Ben it’s something that he has always valued above all else: he wrestled it away from Charles Widmore, he protected it against the intrusion of John Locke, and he eventually killed John Locke in order to use him as leverage to maintain power over the Oceanic Six. On the island, Ben chose to pursue power at every turn and lost the one person he truly loved: in the flash sideways, he chooses the smaller victory, using his information as leverage to reinstate the history club, to ensure Alex a good reference, and to ensure that he could still live with himself.
Still more...
Charles Atherton
I say this is a big week for the Flash Sideways because we learn, as Ben sits at the dinner table with his father, that the island has not been wiped from history: Dr. Linus was once on that island, and his father ponders what their life could have been if they had stayed there, wonders what would have happened if the Dharma Initiative’s wild ideas had brought them into a whole new world. But while that detail helps us piece together the intricacies, the Flash Sideways is most intriguing if we accept the hypothesis from last week that these are somehow absolute truths. The argument was made that Sayid, at his core, has always had a darkness that could not be erased, and so he turns to the “dark side” in both the island and off-island stories: here, meanwhile, Ben is given opportunities to take the path of power in both scenarios and yet turns them BOTH down, unwilling to become caretaker of the island and unable to sacrifice a student with a bright future for his own selfish (if noble) reasons. Does this mean that at the root of Ben is a good person who was simply corrupted by the island’s influences? And would Sayid have come to similar conclusions if it were not for the darkness that exists within his body which drives him towards that side of this battle, and will he be proven to be a good man in future Flash Sideways episodes now that he found Jin in that walk-in?These are all, as I note above, really intriguing questions, and what “Dr. Linus” does best is the way it frames them in human contexts. We learn more clearly that the candidacy system is very much like a draft in sports. There are a number of serious candidates, and two sides are trying to give them something they desire: one side promises them power and independence with a considerable cost, while the other promises them meaning and substance but forces them to turn their lives over to receive it. And right now, they’re trying to bring together their lineups, scouting who might be the most vulnerable, the most persuadable, the most liky to help their cause.
But our loyalties unquestionably lie with the candidates and not the management, our interests in their stories and their struggles rather than the battle between different levels of the bureaucracy. We’re not actually concerned about power so much as we are about purpose, and the idea that the characters are actually closer to understanding their purpose when they give up their power over this situation is extremely liberating. That final montage is vintage “Michael Giacchino Piano Melody,” and it reminds us of those simpler times when episodes could end without a foreboding shot of Charles Widmore in a submarine approaching the island with some sort of nefarious scheme. The fact that it does end with that scene could risk undermining the narrative of personal freedom, of stepping out from under the thumb of the epic battle ongoing on the island, but instead it simply reignites the conflict: for Charles Widmore, his plans are not changed by the presence of people on the beach, but something tells me that his success will be highly dependent on how they respond to his requests or demands. The castaways are very much like Dr. Linus: they might want absolute power, but they might be even more satisfied with just enough power to keep upper management in check while they’re able to move on with their lives. The wonderful thing about Free Agents is that, at the end of the day, they hold all the power: with Jacob dead and Smokey still trying to bring his team together, our characters have a sense of control that has nothing to do with mysticism, and I’m looking forward to seeing how that sort of smaller power, not unlike Ben’s actions in his Flash Sideways, helps bring this series to its rightful conclusion whether you believe it will come in the form of an explosion or a grave.
One more section to come...
Charles Atherton
On a completely off note of sorts, I had never put together that Miles, when returning to the beach, could actually hear/speak to the bodies buried there. He has became this season's Sawyer with his somewhat hilarous comments and an underlying shiftiness to his character that makes you suspicious of his every move. What is his long con? Does it have to do with the $3.2 million he still wants from Ben? With the way he's already got his hands on the diamonds (did he really dig six feet under to get them and nobody else noticed/seemed to care?), it makes you wonder two things: One, I guess you really CAN'T take it with you and two, how often has he done this before and where? There's a lot left to Miles story and I hope when Widmore gets to the island, a lot of those questions are answered.
Sorry if this was too long.
Mr. Charles Atherton
Glenn- Thanks for the feedback regarding Ben being mislead all along. After reading your further detail about Locke also being the ultimate sacrifice the whole thing makes even more sense. Ben and Lock were definitely meant to be intertwined for a reason and I think MIB pitted them against each other just as you said so that Ben would ultimately kill Locke. Wow!!! This is why I love this blog!! So much fun talking about all this stuff. Some of the theories are a little too complex for me to follow, but I think I get the jist of most of it.
Mike V. - I also wanted to compliment you on taking the time to read and respond to everyone's comments, even the ones that annoy you about the cheese curds LOL! I think it's funny that everyone keeps commenting on that when there are a million other things to focus on.
Anonymous - Thanks for the response about Jacob/Esau and as I said before, I don't think it will be the exact story of Jacob/Esau, but I do think it will be a version of the story. The main reason I think it will be is because they kept MIB's name from us and I'm sure there’s a good reason for that. I guess we will all have to wait and see.
Ghost of Jeremy B- I totally agree with how you feel about this season going in slow motion. I wish they would reveal a little bit each episode instead of making us wait and throwing a million other questions into the mix on the way. It gets to be so confusing and frustrating. But as Mike said, once we know all the answers the show will be over and that will definitely be sad :( I will miss this show.
Oh yeah one more thing, Mike V you had responded about my comment on Widmore meeting up with MIB to take him off the island and said it would be interesting if Smokey did get off the island, what form would he be in and would he terrorize the world LOL! I actually think that’s why Jacob had kept him imprisoned on the island, so that he can't terrorize the world, if he really is evil incarnate, then that's probably what he would try to do. YIKES!!
Charles, never too long! Very well said and agree with everything from performances of Michael and Nestor to the importance of the episode. Definitely agree with the mirroring of Ben's desire for power.
One thing I wanted to note: we did know the island existed and that DHARMA had been on the island before this episode (in sideways land)...in LA X are given a glimpse of DHARMAVILLE and the DHARMA Shark roaming around the underwater Island. What we didn't know is that Ben and Roger still went to the island in this timeline. And we don't know why they left!
I like the comments about MIB vs. Jacob and what they're promising, the draft system...all great stuff! Totally agree with the awesome Giacchino music and Classic LOST scene.
Great questions about Miles, I don't know if they really are going to explore his character much further but I wouldn't mind if they did! There are definitely pieces missing to his story. But agree on the comedy angle...he has been solid!
Thanks for sharing your great thoughts. I'd love to respond to it all but I think it speaks for itself! lol
It may seem that Jacob's deal with Dogen comes across as cruel but one thing I have learned watching LOST is that sometimes we don't get all the facts.
Dogen said he was very much a career man and very good at it in his previous life in Japan. Being a workaholic in Japan really does mean being TOTALLY dedicated to your job. Dogen may not have been a very good father - he drove his son around while intoxicated and most likely would have continued on this selfish path. Jacob's offer may have saved Dogen's son from a very dysfunctional relationship with his father and also given Dogen a chance to become a "better person", being a leader to the Templetons and appreciating the blessings he once had.
Jessica...come on...I love the cheese curds comments! But it is funny how many people are bringing it up. I'm getting bombarded with emails from Wisconsin folk telling me about them too! They sure do love their cheese out there! :-) But Thanks for the compliments...i love discussing LOST just as much as anyone. It's the whole reason I put this blog out there. I wanted to talk LOST with people! I'm just glad you all came and found it! Yeah, it's so crazy...i never really thought about the Smoke Monster existing in an environment other than the Island....so when MIB talked about going home...i just assumed he wanted to cease to exist (since he should be dead by now anyway)...or return to human form...off of the island. (not sure how that works).... but the concept of him actually leaving the island AS a Smoke monster? well that's just nuts! lol Could you imagine seeing OFF-ISLAND shots of Smokey just going around and throwing buildings into the air and everything? Yikes....I think they would need a MOVIE budget to pull off that one! lol
It is an interesting concept though! I don't think that's where this is going. But we'll see!
interesting take on it David! I have nothing to add...but I think you're responding to MJ anyway lol I am awaiting further information on Jacob. I think i'll be waiting for a bit longer!
Yeah Mike, I don't think so either, I never meant that he would go off the island as Smokey, but when I saw your comment it cracked me up. I just assumed he intended to leave the island in human form as Locke, if that were to actully happen, he keeps saying he wants off the island and all I keep thinking is where the heck is going to go? I think he's sneaky and spooky and I will be shocked if he somehow turns out to be the good guy. I too don't think the show will go that way in the end I think He and Jacob are never going to get off the island. I think whatever happens in the end we will get a very happy ending!! I read on one of your blogs that Darlton said our characters would get the ending they deserved. To me that means they will all prevail in the end and that dead is really not dead. I think all our favorites that died in the past will be alive in the finale. But I could just be wishful thinking, I mean I am a girl and love the happy endings!
Oh yeah I'm definitely a Jater too, I think Jack and Kate belong together and I loved Sawyer and Juliette, so she has to be resurrected somehow :) I refuse to believe that she's dead and Charlie too, he will be alive and with Claire and Aaron!! I know, I know it's a Disney ending, but I don't care, that's what I want!! LOL!!
Yeah...i didn't think that's what you meant Jessica. As usual, I was just running off on my tangents that I like to do! yeah, i really don't know if LOST is going to be a 100% happy ending. I think it's going to mixed and on a character by character basis. Some people's redemption could be death...others life. I do see the show ending in musican giacchino montage in whatever way it ends. I still like the idea of the last shot of the series being jack's eye closing...but i'd hate for Jack to die! It really depends how this sideways world plays into things. If it's the end-state...then we could see people dying on the island but still see how it was for a better life for all of them in "another life brotha" .... But i still think there's more to the sideways world than just an epilogue.
As long as you're not upset when you don't get you're Disney ending you should be okay! lol I think the ending will be a mix of happiness and sadness. But whatever the end result is....yes...THE LOSTIES will have prevailed!
What if, in order for Smokey to leave the island in human form he must pass on his curse of smoke to someone---like Ben (yet another substitute)...
Jacob is a "free spirit" looking for a candidate (a human vessel or his replacement?)---any chance we'll see some white smoke in the future? (and not just from the writer's rooms or our ears)
Glenn R:
i reeeally enjoyed reading your thoughts and theories, although i have trouble following ANYONE'S idea of the timelines.lol. i'm just hoping the the show comes up with an easier to understand way of meshing them like Mike said lol. but here are my thoughts:
Mr. Eko was one of my favorite characters on this show and so short lived :( but you are absolutely right that he was a person with similar idealism to locke (however less vulnerable) and now that stand off with Mr. Eko and the smoke monstor makes so much sense. the images flashed but it was MIB reading him and trying to manipulate him and realized it would not work. i love it i love it i love it!
and i am going to have to do some more research on this theory that MIB was in charge of the jumps through time. if MIB was being represented as Christian at that time(which i think it was him EVERY time we saw Christian walking around on the island..and all the other 'should have been dead' people) it would make perfect sense. remember? christian was down there where the wheel that moved the island was stuck! and if all this was orchestrated (AAALLLLL of it!) by the MIB to bring dead Locke back... of course! "Indeed he did... go through a lot!"
sidewaysland (lost bizzarro world, as me and my husband call it).... it would make sense that Ben's father would feel so much differently about him after the whole getting shot thing. Because if you recall, after he was shot, that was the first time we saw Roger have any sort of feeling of love shown for Ben. He even cried and stayed with him in the infirmary at all times. He was miserable when he realized they took him away to the jungle.
however Ben's sideways story is easier to calculate than all the other plane crash survivors... i think. but if i understand your thoughts on how the sideways land came about (and the variables involved) i think i agree that it would work and make sense.
I was thinking that too about MIB having to be "relieved of his duties" somehow by getting some other guy to take over. Maybe that was his "offer" to ben. Makes sense. Hmm...what if Jacob was stuck doing that role before MIB and he tricked MIB into doing it? lol Doubt that's where it is going but I thought I'd throw it out there!
Ahh the white smoke...very interesting about the candidate being a vessel for Jacob to come back and not necessarily be a replacement for Jacob. That would make him just as evil as MIB! As for the white smoke...that certainly would be interesting. I have heard it mentioned before...it's even on the latest geronimo jack's beard podcast (jorge garcia)...we all know Locke saw something beautiful when he looked into the eye of the island, later telling eko it was a bright white light. we know that smokey does emit some white lights....we saw it happen to Juliet and Kate when they were all muddy in the jungle lol If that was the same thing...i have no idea!
I'm just rambling again btw...no end in sight..so I'll stop. It's all good ideas, I'm not sure where they'll go with it!
I'm just not seeing it Courtney! And with it...i mean the same thing that Glenn is talking about with Roger feeling emotion for Ben.
If that is indeed what we're saying...then we are suggesting that the very presence of the LOSTIES in 1977 was already changing the timeline before they decided to blow Jughead. Because Sayid SHOT Ben. Roger FELT emotion! This, we are meant to believe, ALWAYS happened. it's a pebble in the stream....at attempt to change something but the water keeps flowing. The BOULDER in the stream is JUGHEAD. This causes the water to have to go in a different path to keep flowing. If we are to believe that the LOSTIES always went back in time...even in this SPLIT universe...then everything that preceded Jughead...needs to be the same...it is 1 timeline at that point. So Sayid still always shoots Ben....Roger always feels upset over it. What changes for Roger when Jughead blows and there are 2 timelines? After he shoots sayid...does he run out into the jungle to find the others and grab ben and leave the island? Ben has already become ONE OF THE OTHERS! He hated his father already. How does he go from that to being off island going for his doctorate?
I see it this way....there is a whole different timeline (in existence for whatever reason)...one in which the losties never travel back in time. Ben and Roger had a more functional relationship...but they still went to the island. this time around though, he did it FOR his kid. And for some reason, they left the Island. How do we explain Locke having a relationship with his father in Sideways land if we just Split the timeline in 1977? Wouldn't Anthony Cooper have already conned Sawyer's parents causing them to die? Wouldn't Jacob have already come to him? Sawyer told Jack in 1977 that the event already happened. His wheels were already in motion.
I think that last comment i made just sold it for me. There are things that Jacob did BEFORE the events of THE INCIDENT that would be pushing these people to the Island.
ooooh here's a thought..... how did the Black Rock get so far inland? wouldn't much much more of the island have had to be underwater at that time? =) =) lol you guys have probably talked about and analyzed that before but i didn't think about it until now when i was thinking about the island being submerged in the sideways timeline.
i actually thought after the island starting moving through time that perhaps it moved right underneath the black rock...that was until i saw the beginning of the season 5 episode with it sailing towards the island! lol
it could be tough for the island to sink so soon to it arriving so that the ship ends up in the middle of the island. lol Maybe in the episode 2 weeks from now we're going to pick up right where we left off with MIB and Jacob's conversation...and MIB is going to turn into the black smoke...fly out into the water, pick up the black rock and shove it into the middle of the island out of frustration with Jacob LOL Now that would be a sight to see!
I like the idea though of the underwater island and the ship floating right above it! We'll see! lol
Okay, that's my last comment for awhile guys..have some stuff to do....so I'll try to catch up on any discussion later!
hey mike, i honestly don't take up to many torches in these timeline scenarios. i am actually more with you because the way i looked at the sidewaysland from the beginning is that some things are the same (i.e. kate's still in trouble, claire's still having a baby, jack is still coming back from australia with his dead dad), some things are exactly the opposite (hurley is now the luckiest man on earth), and some things are just DIFFERENT (jack has a son and possibly an ex-wife, sayid works for an oil company and not needing to be found but married to his brother).
and honestly until after reading this week's blog and comments which are so riddled with sidewaysland ideas, i didn't care about explaining it. i feel like instead of hurting my brain trying to figure out what it is, i should just focus on what the sideways stories are telling us and trust that they are relevant in the long run, you know? i KNOW they are relevant. and i know you agree with me on that =)
by the way, what did you think about glenn saying that the smoke monstor was trying to recruit (manipulate) Mr. Eko? he is one of my favorite characters and i think if that IS what the smoke monstor was trying to do, MIB must have been completely intrigued by Mr. Eko because he wasn't afraid of the smoke and stopped and faced it head on. However i think that MIB tried to use Mr. Eko's dead brother to manipulate him, or test him. and because Mr. Eko was a man of such strong principles and strong FAITH, he couldn't be manipulated. He wasn't as vulnerable as Locke. this is the first time i've heard a theory about that and felt like i understood what happened to him!
p.s. LOOVE your idea about the black rock, wouldn't put it past that old smokey!
catch you later!
***NADIA is not needing to be found but married to his brother***
Courtney, I wad pretty much putting that out there for glenn too lol
On my phone so I'll be quick:
listening to Geronimo jack's beard podcast again. Jorge actually talks about trying to add into the script asking if Richard is a vampire. So that was all his idea. Lol good times! I love this Podcast!
Pharmer i mentioned that in the comments as a possibility too. Would definitely be interesting! I choose not to think so for now though lol
Yeah - I was responding to someone - but have no idea who now. LOL
Oh man - I HATED the Sopranos end. Hated BSG's end too. But I don't think I will hate Lost's end - I have faith. I don't need to have every little thing explained - alot of the stuff wasn't even supposed to be a big deal til the fans glommed onto it. As long as the end makes sense and bigger loose ends are tied up then I will be satisfied.
I guess I am just easily pleased - or just love the show enough that I'm just happy when it's on - but I am genuinely surprised by the high level of criticism any more. This is not a complaint - every one has the right to their opinion - one of the things I love about this blog - but I'm am just surprised by how many are complaining is all.
Mike V - if you read all that Atherton wrote then YOU deserve many many kudos ! That was just too long for me. LOL
DavidLasko - agree that with Lost you never know, and that japanese business men are known to be overly driven - but he did say that he went and picked him up each friday - so it sounded like their relationship was pretty good.
MJ et al....I apologize for my lack of brevity. I'll try to do better next time. Just really, really into Lost and its many mysteries, etc.
Charles Atherton
Perhaps Dogen's son playing baseball in the original timeline was more of Dogen's own pressure on the kid to succeed. The son is shown to be a musician in Sideways world and he seems to have a good relationship with him just as Jack eventually seems to do with his own son.
Probably nothing, just thought it was interesting to speculate on the difference between Jacob's offers and MIB's offers.
FWIW, a spin-off series at that high school with Artz, Linus, Locke and Reynolds would be sheer bliss and would automatically become my favorite new show of the 2010-2011 season without ever airing a single episode. Someone at ABC needs to make this happen.
LOL
I just was musing how internet slang has become new-age hieroglyphics. Disclaimer: These are meant as a tribute to the characters portrayed on LOST. I mean no disrespect in regards to gender, appearance, religion, or ethnic origin.
These read as:
Character
Slang Symbol(s)
Meaning
Claire
#:-)
From a person with matted hair
Hurley
:-)^<
Big Boy
Sawyer-at the Barracks
%-}
Intoxicated
Medusa spider
/\(00)/\
Spider
Dogen
I-)=
with a beard
Dogen’s son
d:-)
Smiling with baseball cap
Shannon
:-{}
Lip stick
Rose
@}--\-,---
rose
Bernard
TDTU
Totally devoted to you
Eko
+:-)
Priest
Jin
|-)
Asian man
Sun
&|-)
Asian woman
Lennon
(8 {
John Lennon
Penny
M8
Mate
Penny and Desmond
M8S
Mates
Submarine captain and crew
X:-)
Propeller Head
Alex
DD
Dear (or Darling) daughter
Rousseau
~~\8-O
Bad hair day
Sayid
B&
Banned
Man in Black
~~~~8}
Snake
Kate
K8T
Katie
Miles
$_$
Greedy
Experiment Rabbit
(\_/)
(o.o)
(___)0
Rabbit
Aaron
~:0
Baby
Ji Yeon
8:-)
Little Girl
Wild boar
^ ^
( '@' )
( UU )~
Pig
Faraday
(:I
Egghead scientist
Dr. Chen
G9
Genius
Mr. Cluck
8^
Chicken
Vincent
:3-]
Dog
Locke
~~:-(
Getting Rained On
Rousseau Team
/:-)
Frenchman with a beret
Rousseau Team
/&:-)
Frenchwoman with a beret
Sawyer’s Frog
8)
Frog
Desmond watching Swan computer
=%-O
Stared at Computer Way Too Long
Juliet
459
Means I love you (ILY is 459 using keypad numbers)
4815162342
BBN
Big Bad Number
Polar bear
@ @
( '.' )
c(UU)
bear
Shark
o
o
o<' ))> )))))<
shark
Jack
IAAD
I am a doctor
I hope everyone enjoys this tribute.
Mike commented about how we know that the Dharma Initiative existed in the sideways timeline... So, if Dharma did exist (proven from our view of the underwater Island, and from Ben Linus' comments), and if Ben and Roger were on the island during the Incident (I'm trying to figure out if we know this with certainty?)... Then, that would prove that the island did NOT sink in 1977 as a result of either Jughead or the Incident, wouldn't it?
Because if it did sink, Roger would not have commented about what would have happened if they had stayed. He would have known that staying wasn't an option. At least not without deep sea equipment!
So, can we conclude from those two pieces of info that the island definitively did NOT sink in 1977. That must have happened some other time between 1977 and 2004?
Until the show gives us more information, we only know that in Sideways universe, the island is underwater in 2004 and that the Dharma Initiative were present on the island at least in the 70s. No idea if the Dharma presence is pre- or post- Swan hatch. We know Ben was on the island with his father and we know that Ben got his Ph.D., so he probably left the island at the very latest for high school as I do not recall a high school on the island. Probably they left the island in the late 70s. Doesn't seem like the Linus's know that the island is drowned in 2004. I am hedging my bets on the island submerging occurring in 1992.
Glenn R., I was just thinking the exact same thing. Also, if Dharma and the island existed, and now the island is underwater and nobody knows it, then it still must have been a secret place. How much more of the island "story" is the same? Not sure where I'm going with this...
Okay...back to commenting...
Courntey I short changed you last time lol with Hurley...I still think he, personally, has been very lucky in both timelines...he just views it differently in this new one. Remember, things only happened to other people around him. nothing bad ever happened to him personally! It is still different though, so the concept you're saying is right. Same characters but with key differences. I think you're philosophy of just enjoying the sideways story for what it is...is definitely something the producers are striving for. yeah we're taking a shot here and there at figuring it out....but they know it's a slow burn over the season. They are definitely relevant and we will find out why!
Yeah...i think i mentioned to Glenn that I liked his whole Smokey analysis. it makes sense that he may have been trying to recruit Eko....maybe not recruit right at that time...but at least get a good look at him to see if he was worthy. But I'm not so sure why Smokey would care if Eko would repent for his sins or whatever. "you speak to me as if I was your brother" well..okay mr. mcmoody! I still wonder if at times smokey was fulfilling his island duties while pulling a long-con on Jacob, Locke and the entire island! lol Because when ben summoned him...he came and wiped out the freighter crew. I just don't know. I'm rambling again. i also want to know who is behind the dreams that people were having...ben claimed to have them, locke had em, Charlie had them, eko had them....hurley had them.... surely they're not by coincidence!
I forget who was talking about Christian Shephard always being smokey...but I still have to debate that. Yeah it makes sense that it was Smokey in the cabin....thinking back..the fact that Ilana said that Jacob hadn't been there for a long time makes it seem like MIB was Christian there. But I just can't think that Ghost Christian was always him. If Smokey can't leave the island...could he appear as a ghost to Jack off island? can he appear on the freighter to Michael? Or even just appear on the island to jack in the white rabbit episode...because the key thing we saw in that episode and were reminded in "lighthouse" was that his body was not in the coffin. Locke's body WAS in the coffin.
Rambling rambling rambling again! lol
MJ - I totally agree with LOST....the episode rarely has left me upset after the episode where I felt like it was utterly worthless. I can count on my hand those episodes (Fire +Water, Stranger in a Strange Land) Still haven't gotten to that BSG ending...i'm near the end of season 1 but the spring TV onslaught has slowed down my process!
I defintely read the entire atherton post! What I forgot to ask is if, Charles, you're related to William Atherton the actor who played Principal Reynolds? LOL Or if that was the whole intent of the last name!
David - definitely interesting to speculate on Jacob vs. MIB's offers. And I think it's definitely key to the story.
Anonymous...LOVE the spinoff idea! LOL
Wow...Anonymous with the symbols..some of them are very creative! LOL Definitely was a good time!
Glenn - I am thinking you're right that we can ALMOST prove that the island did not sink in 1977. We know that Roger and Ben were on the island before 1977 though...so I guess they could have left earlier. But yeah...I'm still keeping the option open that Jughead isn't the cause of the sunk Island. Just like Team Darlton have advised us. I am thinking whenever Roger and Ben left...they had no idea the Island was submerged. I think I mentioned that in the blog too.
We also saw the 4 toed statue on the underwater island (destroyed)....but Ben said that it was like that when he got there...might have been lying...but it seemed like he was being honest.
The best theory i have heard about the island sinking was a volcanic eruption....because we WERE told in Ben's 1st centric episode "Man Behind The Curtain" that there was a volcano on the Island (btw...that was BEFORE 1977 when Roger and Ben were on the Island) But yes...we can confirm it happened from some time in the 70's to 2004.
David...you know what i just thought about?
Remember when Horace said in Locke's cabin dream "I've been dead for 12 years??" The PURGE also happened in 1992! hmmmmmmmmmmmmm
Horseman - I'm not sure where you're going with it either...but I am curious to how much more of the Island story is the same as well. I am just hoping with a Richard story that it would be the same in both timelines....but who knows??? I don't want a sideways richard story...i want the ACTUAL Richard story! LOL
and yes yes...i know....both timelines are real...so I can't judge yet. maybe Richard is FROM the sideways timeline anyway! lol
Courtney, thanks for sharing, and I'm happy to know someone else was as happy as me to have a theory that seems to fit about that whole Mr. Eko final scene with "Yemi" (MIB). That was driving me crazy when the scene first happened, in part because I was so mad that they killed off my absolute hands-down favorite character too! (I'm still really sad about that!)
And yea, when I first heard that theory, with fairly in-depth analysis about how each and every time shift impacted Locke, it helped me put so much into perspective. If you are interested, I am quite sure I first read about that somewhere on Lostpedia. I'll try and find the original summary link for you and pass it on here.
Re. the Christian appearances... about 4 or so episodes ago, we had some discussion on here which broke down each of Christian's scenes. Personally, I'm not so sure about Christian's earlier appearances... such as in White Rabbit in the first season, in which his actions could be interpreted as helping the recently arrived candidates find water. I actually went back and re-watched every Christian scene. But from the Claire appearance and after, at the time, I felt very certain that they were all Smokey.
Now some people here are taking it as proof that Christian in the cabin (when Locke visited, while Ben and Hurley ate Dharmabars together outside) was NOT Smokey ... because Claire thinks of the two of them as separate. The argument goes that if she knows that her "friend" is not the same entity as "John Locke", then she should also be able to tell the difference between Christian and Smokey. Thus the argument goes: Christian could not be Smokey. I personally do not buy that. Claire never knew Christian or spent anywhere near as much time with him as she did John Locke (after the plane crashed). I think that Smokey could have appeared as Christian and totally fooled Claire. I mean, think about Smokey's scanning abilities... he seems to be able to scan any person to find their deepest desires and weaknesses. To me that is why he chose Christian -- because he could influence Claire the best that way. Until we see Christian in the same scene as Smokey, that's my belief.
Which brings me back to... I definitely believe that Smokey was Christian, at least from the Claire scene onwards. Prior to that, I just don't know. But I'm sure looking forward to enjoying each and every one of the approximately 462 remaining minutes of Lost to find out!
Glenn...i would agree from the Claire appearance onward it did seem like Smokey.... And Christian also appeared in the moving cabin at the beginning of season 4 (still wearing a suit i might add) That really throws me off!
Yeah...i can still go either way on Claire's FRIEND comment. The first time that Smokey could have appeared as Locke would have been when they returned to the Island on Ajira....and I wondered if that was when Ben went to summon smokey and he didn't show up....and Locke was out in the woods (maybe he went to check on claire) But I wonder who he was appearing to Claire as for the 3 years prior??? And would Claire know that he appears as different people? Because she says she hasn't been alone for 3 years...and she clearly specifies Christian as a separate entity....you see where I'm confused? lol
Mike, I think the reason Smokey wanted Eko to repent was because that would have put Eko utterly and completely under his manipulative control, and made him "usable" for the second requirement in his loophole.
He appeared as Yemi to manipulate him, because his scan had told him that that was the character to whom Eko was most vulnerable. (i guess he got really lucky that Yemi's body happened to be on the island for convenient usage too!) If Eko would have continued to believe that he was the real Yemi come back to haunt him, then just think how easy it would have been to mold Eko to his exact needs.
When Eko rejected Yemi's plea to repent, he showed himself to be too strong to achieve full submission, and thus unusuable for loophole requirement 2. At that point, I'm guessing in a fit of rage that he was SO CLOSE to finding his second person, he just killed him out of frustration.
Man, I'm never going to forgive Smokey for that!
I know this sounds crazy but what if our Sideways LOSTIES have been on the island in their universe, just in different ways from the Oceanic 815 crash?
The comment Ben made to Lapidus about "the island getting him anyway in the end" sounds like an important clue to me.
Plus the fact that Ben and Roger confirmed that they were part of the Dharma Initiative.
I am leaning towards Christian Shephard being some sort of anomaly and his own entity on the island.
Dogen specifically said that MIB's modus operandi is the come to you as someone you know that is dead. Yet Christian Shephard appeared to John Locke in the Donkey Wheel cavern. Locke had no idea who he was. MIB most likely would have appeared as someone from Locke's life instead. Same goes for Christian Shephard's appearance to Michael on the Kahana releasing him by saying "you can go now"and then the explosion. Michael had no idea who Christian was and it would have made more sense for the apparition to be Ana-Lucia for instance or Libby from Michael's past.
@Mike V. - The Purge was in 1992!
I like it!!
Horace Goodspeed must be a key player in this somehow.
It always bothered me how the terrible genocide of that incident seemed downplayed.
If Jacob instructed Widmore to do that....
Perhaps it really was MIB in disguise while he was pulling his long con as both the security system and master manipulator. Funny that the other con artist - Sawyer was also head of security as LaFluer in Dharma times! lol!
I agree to that Hurley has ALWAYS been lucky.
Courtney, I went back to Lostpedia, and for some reason, someone deleted 90% of the Smokey-Manipulated-Locke-Through-Time theory. So I went back to an older date's entry, and found the theory, and went ahead and posted it to a webpage for your reading pleasure! Check it out here:
Locke Time Manipulation Theory
trying again with that link:
Locke Time Manipulation Theory
man, i hate how sometimes that link thing works and sometimes not. Just cut and paste this link and you'll find it:
http://www.shiftingparadigms.com/locketimemanipulationtheory.html
uuuggghhh, now it didn't all show up in the comments! Here is a bitURL for the same link, this will definitely work, either as a link, or for cutting/pasting. Sorry about the repetitive posts!
http://bit.ly/9HshhR
Just for future reference. If you google "HTML links code" you can get the code to make actual links in the blog posts.
I'd do it for you but I'm on my phone again! Lol
One last comment for this go-round. Mike I don't buy it's such a huge leap to imagine that Ben could have returned to his father and eventually come to love him again. For starters, one of the things that drove him to like the Others was his hatred of his father. If his father had a change of heart, I think Ben could have changed his heart in response too. Secondly, the whole "Others" phenonemon was an on-island thing. Once they left the island, and the Others were no longer a part of his life, and his father was now becoming more of a loving father...
So, off island, he had a) no others around to influence him and b) a loving father. Seems enough to me to impact his life.
Of course, the one hole in this is Richard's comment that he would lose his innocence. But maybe that "lost innocence" part of him is the part that started to rear its head in the last Dr. Linus episode at the high school (as Arszt saw in his comment about how deceptive Ben's outward appearance was). Maybe just maybe the Sideways Ben is a story of how Love triumphs. Once Ben truly felt loved by his father, the influence of the Other's went on the backburner, and ultimately was vanquished in the sequence of events we saw both on island and off in the last ep! :-)
Yes, there are certainly many other ways to interpret all this, and I admit I'm still kind of "thinking out loud" about how the info we've been given fits into my Sideways theory. And as I said before, I am not wedded to this theory. The fun is in the testing of it against the evidence we are given.
Greetings, Mike. Sorry to add to your voluminous workload, but wanted to get this out there for speculation. (The comments have really blown up, even in just the last 2-3 weeks. I haven’t yet got to the last 60-70, so apologies in advance if I’m repeating something.)
I refuse to believe that the writers will include an impossible time travel loop (temporal paradox) as part of the resolution to the show (plane crashes…survivors time travel…detonate bomb…plane doesn’t crash…therefore no bomb…plane crashes…ad infinitum). I also don’t believe there will be an alternate/parallel/sideways universe, at least not a physical one. Maybe we’ll see the return of the traveling consciousness – like Desmond cycling back and forth to 1996 or Faraday’s rat running the maze before he taught it how. There was one particular FS for Ben, when he was about halfway done with the grave, that looked to me like we were supposed to see that as a memory, not just a sideways jump in the plot. I need to rewatch other episodes to see if any of the other character’s FS had the same appearance. As you’ve stated, the mirrors/reflections in the FS are probably important, which got me thinking about Alice/Through the Looking-Glass (there have been a few Alice themes so far in the show), and how there was a queen who could “remember” events that hadn’t happened yet. Before rambling anymore, trying to tie together the mirrors, the sideways flashes, Faraday’s theory on traveling consciousness, and my perspective that Ben appeared to be “remembering”, I think the FS world might represent another level or state of their consciousness, some of which depends on decisions and actions that occur on the island, or maybe just what they learn about themselves on the island affects their decisions in what I think is the “real” world (epilogue theory, I guess). (This made more sense in my head.) This might also tie into Juliet’s “It worked”. In her last few moments, I think she flashed between these states of consciousness, saw herself having coffee with Sawyer, and realized what they did worked. Otherwise, how would she know?
I just have to add that I love how the writers have consistently included references or allusions to real people, works of literature, philosophies, etc. that seem to relate directly to the characters or theme at the time. Whether intentional or not, the duality of human nature theme (good and bad in everyone) also got me thinking about RLS’s Dr Jekyll/Mr Hyde – Smokey makes for a great Mr Hyde, lol.
Bill [PA]
David...maybe you're right about Horace. I don't think the purge has been downplayed...it was brought up a lot in season 5...and it was brought up in season 4 with Ben telling Hurley that he didn't make the call. I still think we need to know who did...but based on Richard following orders to PURGE the US Army that was there....it would seem to be Jacob's call. Who knows!?! Hopefullly they'll touch on it this season again.
It could have been the MIB in disguise...but he can only take the form of dead folk...and jacob wasn't dead! But maybe he disguised himself as someone Widmore trusted. I dunno...i'm rambling again.
Glenn - I like the philosophy of the whole Roger caring for Ben again after the shooting. Something just doesn't add up for me because Sayid would have still shot ben causing him to become AN OTHER in the timeline we know. But keep thinking out loud...i'm trying to figure it out too. Well...that's a lie...i like speculating until they just give us the damn answer! lol I can't figure out anything!!
PA Bill! No prob on the workload...i live for it! Unfortunately...i have to tend to Primetime TV and Idol blogging in a little bit so I'll be taking the rest of the night off from LOST. :-( Yeah...i don't like the idea of 2 timelines existing in the end. If they tie it in with a consciousness Desmondo thing...i might be cool with that. Depends on how they do it! As for the Flash Sideways with Ben...not sure i'm exactly following you...but based on Jorge and Michael Emerson on the Geronimo Jack's podcast...the Director (Mario Van Peobles yikes on the spelling) wanted to really transition from Island timeline to flash sideways seamlessly to make it flow. So if someone was running on the island..the next sideways scene would start with someone running...so maybe that's what you were seeing with the grave scene. But it also could be totally deliberate! Yeah i think the mirrors are definitely key...funny you mention Faraday and "remembering" since he lost his memory before going back to the healing island. I agree also that Juliet flashing to her sideways consciousness seems to be the only explanation for the coffee thing. I really don't know how they're gonna explain it all but you could be onto something here! If it ends up giving us an episode nearly as cool as THE CONSTANT, I'm all game for it! lol
Talk to you guys later...ugh...time to mail in an idol blog for a quick payday! lol
Glenn, thanks for the props...it's nice to know that someone appreciates me! ;-)
You guys are out of control on here this season! This is my first time clicking the comments section. I'm not even going to get started reading all of it. Mike sent me the nice comments from Glenn, and I just wanted to stop in to say thanks! Carry on!
I just wanted to say I don't think Christian was ever MIB.... When he was at the wheel with Locke he said tell my son hello. I don't think smokey would've said that even if it was so Locke could get Jack to come to the island. I think Christian is similar to Richard's role in some way minus the never aging aspect.
Also on a totally different subject I think Sawyer can see ghosts like Hurley can .. he saw that little blonde boy and Kates horse. Anyone have thought on that?
@davidsalako: It could have been MIB as Christian at the frozen donkey wheel. He needed Locke to tell Jack that his Father says hello. I think it was Jacob though.
Also, in the last episode, didn't Jacob tell Hurley that Jack "had more work to do". Christian said the same thing to Jack at one point. Also, it makes me think that Jacob came to Locke as Walt after Lock got shot by Ben because he said "you have more work to do". It seems to me that that phrase is emphasized for a reason (I love it when I get to use "that that" in a sentence).
@Bill [PA] I like your idea about the "traveling consciousness". The LOSTIES have been exposed to radiation...
@Weasel - yes I am leaning towards (though not 100% convinced) Jacob appearing as Christian Shephard and Walt. I wonder why Jacob needs these disguises though, he seemed to be able to walk around quite okay in bodily form. Perhaps it is to keep his "interfering" to a minimum and preserve the supposed free will of the individual as much as possible?
Why was Walt's apparition to Shannon with him seeming to be under water or something?
@Anonymous - great point on Sawyer being able to see the ghosts i.e. blond boy and the black horse. He is also very perceptive in sizing up people as he knew Flocke was not Locke without Flocke having to demonstrate his supernatural badassedness to Sawyer!
Good point Dave. I agree I think Jacob has the same abilities as MIB and with the advantage that he could leave the island. This would explain appearing to Michael and Jack off island.
Islands were often used as penal colonies and MIB has been trapped in this prison. Except this island is something out of Superman 2 (or was it 3).
I think MIB used some of the same characters on the island to serve his agenda.
@Anonymous - another great point regarding penal colonies. Australia was a penal colony for a long time to and as Locke or was it Hurley said while playing the board game "Risk" - Australia is the key!
MikeV...Thanks for asking in regards to my last name. No one else has thought to ask. However, sad to say, I am NOT related to the actor William Atherton (although there is a William Atherton in my family).
Charles Atherton
okay...so there's an official ABC LOST Podcast with Damon and Carlton that posted this morning on iTunes and probably lost.abc.com. Check it out! But I will give highlights below. They did pre-hash next week's episode so beware of mild spoilers like episode names and whose centric it is! (btw...the podcast was once again hysterical. I highly recommend the listen!)
*****MILD SPOILER ALERT*******
EPISODE NAME: Recon - Damon and Carlton informed us that it's a Sawyer-centric....and we were meant to be wondering where Sawyer has been the last few episodes. They also went to defining "RECON" as short for "Reconnaisance (SP)"....which means going behind enemy lines to gather intel. They said it also could be a play on words "TO CON AGAIN" nice.... they suggested that it is probably meant to mean both. So, our speculation that Sawyer could be playing MIB...could be accurate!
*****END MILD SPOILER ALERT********
Q&A's
- Why is Flocke stuck the way he is? - As speculated, the major thing that happened since he took the form of alex and others is that Jacob died. They joked about why he didn't take the form of FABIO then lol Anyway, in their ramblings they did mention Christian Shephard as one of the smoke monster apparitions. Maybe this isn't even meant to be a question. So they may have actually confirmed that Smokey took his form. But I still hold out that Christian has appeared as a ghost as well.
- How did Kate not get caught by Off-Island people as not Aaron's Mother when she wasn't breast feeding? - LOL This was hysterical. They said that when they get caught in something like this that they never considered their answer is...."THERE'S A SMOKE MONSTER PEOPLE!!!" In other words...don't be so serious! Good times!
- The Caves vs. The Lighthouse - could one be MIB's and the other Jacob's? - Loved this answer because it proved my original speculations true. They're both Jacob's. Why would Jacob need them in 2 places? They said the show speaks for itself...when Flocke went into the caves and threw the rock into the ocean...that didn't seem like he was putting on a show...he seemed genuinely pleased with himself that he outsmarted Jacob. The speculation they gave is that maybe Jacob etched those names on the wall with the intent that MIB would find it....and perhaps it would mislead him. they also mentioned that austin 51 is on the wall but crossed off.....they said this also could be intent to throw MIB off the scent that she is important! The lighthouse must be the ACTUAL LIST!
I think there was more but I'll have to try and remember some! I'll also respond to people's comments when I get a chance...but this may have answered some for me! lol
Charles Atherton
don't apologise ! I didn't mean my comment as a complaint to you - merely a kudo to Mike for still being able to keep up since this year the comments are off the charts. I'm enjoying it all - just can't keep up any more. Imagine - my employers actually expect me to work rather than read the blog all day ! LOL
One of the reasons I love this blog is that all theories are welcome - so don't ever stop Charles !
"Imagine - my employers actually expect me to work rather than read the blog all day ! LOL"
hmmm...speaking of mirrors...i may need to start looking into one while reading that comment! LOL
Forgot..from the podcast also:
Charles Widmore is the person that Jacob wanted to come to the Island. Appropriate questions are "wait...widmore is working with Jacob? Wasn't he the evil guy that sent the freighter???" we should be asking this stuff. And I also remember in the enhanced version of Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham....that it said something like Widmore is acting like a different person.
I guess it's possible that maybe Jacob came to him off of the island as well or something? After the freighter incident of course.
Of course...we can't forget the comment he made to Ben "The Island was mine Benjamin. It will be again" oooohhhhh chilling. There's that need for POWER again!
@ Mike V. - great tips from the podcast, they sound really entertaining. Interesting stuff on Widmore, it did seem like he was somewhat of a wealthy broken man when Ben visited him in Widmore's bedroom and they had their heart to heart confrontation. Apparently Ben can't kill Widmore and vice-versa! The "new" Widmore that helped Locke with his Jeremy Bentham does tie in very nicely to Jacob's Jeremy Bentham panopticon-like Lighthouse. Nice stuff indeed.
I am with you - Christian Shephard has appeared sans Smokey' involvement. I still hold to that one lol.
MikeV...you have got to check this out....Hilarous
http://ebaumnation.com/2010/03/05/lost-full-house-style
Enjoy!
good points david...and i'm glad we agree on Christian!
Anonymous..sounds hysterical, I'll have to check that out when I go home.
I actually tweeted one last night that has LOST Opening Credits to the Baywatch opening..it's fantastic! lol
Remembering more from the podcast:
- Darlton have always been surprised by everyone's fascination with Annie. So they went into a whole description of why they wrote the character. It was to accentuate Ben's desire to have a relationship with Juliet. Ben was very inexperienced with women but he did have a strong friendship with a girl as a child. But that was it. They don't plan to explore her further.
- Dharma Food Drops...they have every intention of answering where they came from but NOT on the show. Then they said "that's all we'll say for now" My guess is this is the LOST Encyclopedia. Maybe they didn't know it was already announced? lol Or maybe there's going to be a Q&A Episode AFTER LOST LOL
- The Island Volcano - They said we should definitely plan to hear more about that this season. I'm liking the Island sinking by volcano theory more and more! lol
okay..that's it for now. In case you hadn't noticed, this was a really good podcast!
Hilarious stuff regarding the podcast Mike V.
I don't know why I am fascinated with Annie either, I guess that puts all our wild theories to rest :-).
I always thought that volcanic eruptions created islands especially within the Pacific "ring of fire" region, rather than destroyed islands? It has been a while since I studied physical geography in high school lol!
oh yeah...i don't remember anything about Volcanic Eruptions from school lol But I have been to the Pompeii Ruins! Pretty crazy stuff.
Of course, there has been Hollywood's fascination with the movies Volcano, Dante's Peak...and how can we forget... Star Wars Episode III Revenge of the Sith LOL
Where on earth have they been hiding this volcano for 6 seasons???? I guess maybe it could be the "origin story" of the islands. What do i know? lol But it sounds like we'll find out! Very exciting!
I actually loved this episode! Ben's redemption moment with Ilana was perfect. I was SO happy when he decided to stay with the good guys. (;
three things bugged me though:
1) the beginning where Ben is running through the forest and then he meets up with Ilana and the gang. and then they talk about what to do next. it felt SO rushed and forced and unrealistic. I don't think anyone would have complained if the scene was 30 secs longer.
2) Sun. when she said Jin again all I thought was UGH. we don't hear Jin complaining 24/7 do we? I think there could have been a smarter less annoying way to instigate the conversation between Ilana and Sun.
3) (yes I know everyone already complained about this one.)the blackmail moment between Ben and Reynolds. it could have been played out so much better. here's how the writer could have made it work:
so Ben makes his proposal and says here's the dirt I got on you and this is what I want. Reynolds turns on him and says lemme read this email to you. then he says, look, I know this girl is basically your favorite student. I'll write her a letter of recommendation if you back off. then Ben says I'll back off if you write that letter and do a whole bunch of other stuff I want. Reynolds says he's pushing his luck. he makes some threats and says If I'm outta the job, who'll write this girl a good recommendation? Ben says, I would, after YOU resign and recommend me for principal. principal says Touche, you got me. I want to remain an esteemed person of society AND I want my job so I'll do what you want. Alex gets a good letter of recommendation. Ben gets the history club back on track. Arzt gets everything he wanted.
Honestly, I don't see why it couldn't have played out that way. Ben CLEARLY had the advantage. and honestly, I don't see how Reynolds could ruin Alex's chances of getting into Yale if HIS rep goes down the toilet. Dr. Linus was deterred WAY TOO EASILY. There was a very tiny compensation at the end when he gets the history club back. but it still just feels like he chickened out. and even to me, a soft-spoken person, Reynolds and what he said just did not seem threatening in the least.
-Lauren
I get the feeling this episode was suffering from time constraints. but because I'm naive about how TV works, I think the director should have just gone ahead and made it a full-blown hour, excluding commercials. Oh well.
Last thing:
what is so wrong if the show is both character AND plot driven? to be honest, that's better than a show that is just one or the other. every show that is to come should take a leaf from Avatar: The Last Airbender. It was so perfectly well-balanced all throughout the entire series! I hate rewatching anything from loooooong series'. It's like been there, done that, I was happy when I moved on from it the first time. Why the hell would I make myself suffer through all of it a second time? However, I would gladly rewatch ANYTHING from Avatar! It was funny, entertaining, deep, adventurous, mysterious, actiony, realistic, heart warming, touching. real characters moving forward in a real plot. Lost is very much the same, which is why I love it.
Personally, I love the flash sideways so far. (mostly) Everyone is getting a happy ending, and it is very believable. Problems happen; you deal with it; you move on. that's life. It is especially nice to see them "move on" and "tie loose ends" in their own lives after all the tragedy and suffering they've had to go through since season 1.
My bottom line of my understanding of the nature of things in the Lost universe: the island screwed up everyone's life, including Jacob's. From what I can tell, I think Jacob doesn't like his "job", and this scheme he's cracking is gonna free the world from the force that is the island. I'm totally rooting for the epilogue theory! Jacob saves everybody including Smokey. I don't know how. I'm leaving the mysteries to the writers cuz so far I like all the "pieces of the puzzle" that they've already come up with. the lighthouse. the statue. the wheel. the black rock. I think all of them are fascinating.
btw, I really enjoy reading everyones debates and speculations, like the reason behind some of Smokey's actions in earlier seasons and how that fits with what we know now. I mostly just go with the flow of episodes so I don't really think too much on those things.
Phew! What a long first comment. Keep commenting everyone!
-Lauren
Ben Linus in Sideways Land can still get his boss booted out, he just has to wait until (the very cute) Alex Rousseau has been admitted to Yale. E-mail records do not disappear....
very passionate statements Lauren! And yes you may be naive about television! lol They are required to have so much advertising per hour. Most episodes run about 44 minutes in total.
i still really don't see the issue with Ben backing down and making Alex happy. He chose her happiness over power. And the whole episode was about Ben's desire for power....ben's whole story was about that...him grasping at every last straw to KEEP his power when he was losing it. And it's why Flocke tempted him with it. It all just was a very well put together episode!
And one other thing i forgot from the podcast...Team Darlton argued it might be their favorite episode this season...and quite possibly the entire series. Not that this should sway anyone into liking it more. But it makes me feel better that I liked it so much lol
Thanks for you comments Lauren!
Ok, really the last thing I want to say.
In my other post, I made a theory that Jacob himself is trapped by the island and hates his job. As proof, remember back in idk season and idk episode, Locke demands Ben take him to see Jacob. They go to the cabin, Locke realizes Ben is a sham and as he is leaving, Jacob speaks to him and says, "Save me".
or help me. I forgot which, but point is Jacob is suffering too.
Also, I have a question. What does MIB stand for?
-Lauren
Man in black! Lol
Yeah smokey may have been trapped and tired of it. That's been my thought as well.
We aren't sure if "help me" voice in the man behind the curtain (season 3) was Jacob or mib though. Probably Jacob but I still have doubts.
Sorry for being brief! On phone again lol
I think the "help me" in Jacob's cabin was most likely MIB. All part of his plan to make Ben even more insecure and to further make certain that Locke felt he had a special connection with the island.
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