We got another chapter in the saga of Ben. This put us in a unique situation where we could catch up with Ben's 2007 ventures as well as flash back to a point that took place not long after we last left Ben in 1977 (which is present day for some of our other Losties!). It all makes sense in the land of LOST these days! This episode is really a tale of redemption for Ben, much like Eko's in those dreaded first 6 episodes of season 3. Time to dive into the details!
Ben's Flashbacks
1977 - Ben's recovery
We open up tonight's episode with a man on horseback arriving to the Others' camp. I'll spare the suspense. It's Charles Widmore circa 1977! The man is furious with Richard.
- First of all, a HORSE? This is the first horse we've seen on the island since Kate's run-in with the black horse. Speaking of which, what happened to all of those stories where our characters were being haunted by ghosts via animals? Sawyer and the Boar, Kate and the Horse? Hurley and the Hurleybird? (just kidding on the last one)
- Anyway, Charles is mad that Richard brought young Ben into THEIR temple and that Richard should have let Ben die. Ben will later in life talk about how the wall around the temple was built to keep the NON-OTHERS out of it. So what is so special about this Temple? And why aren't they showing us it yet? I'm guessing that will be a season 6 reveal.
- Richard tells Charles he is just a boy and Jacob wanted it done. The Island chooses who the Island chooses. I wonder if this is where Jacob's List comes into play (referenced in season 3. The one Jack isn't on.). Of course, we don't even know if Jacob was ever communicating with Ben, so Ben may have made that list himself.
- Charles seems to accept this logic and goes in to see Ben. We find out for certain that Ben does not remember what happened. But we learn enough to tie events together in Ben's life. He remembers his father and that he wants to be one of the hostiles.
- Charles explains just because he lives with the DHARMA folk doesn't mean that he isn't one of them. This ties up the fact that Ben was still living with the DHARMA crew and working with his father right before the purge in 1992. The funny thing is, before tonight I never questioned the fact that Rousseau had Alex 16 years before 2004 and the Purge happened 12 years before 2004 and the fact that Alex was taken as a child and raised by Ben. I should have been questioning it, but it never really crossed my mind.
Speaking of Alex...
We see an older Ben and a young boy Ethan at Rousseau's camp. Ben was charged with killing Rousseau by Charles Widmore.
Here is what transpired:
- The heartless boy Ethan explains to Ben that he would do it for him. This reminds me of Sayid taking the fall for his older brother with killing the chicken and of course the tales of Eko and Yemi killing a man when told to.
- Ben shuts Ethan up and heads into Rousseau's tent. And unexpectedly baby Alex is there.
- Rousseau does some flipping out in French and accuses Ben of infecting her crew.
- Ben, apparently has a little bit of a heart and actually saves Rousseau. He tells her to never come look for her child and any time she hears whispers, run the other way.
- Hmmm....so where was the black smoke that Rousseau said she saw before they took Alex? Remember in season 1 when she told them there was black smoke and they took her baby? And then we saw the black smoke and they took Walt? (all they wanted was the boy) Unless, we're meant to think that Rousseau saw the black smoke MONSTER which infected her crew and then Ben came and took the baby. I dunno. That's a stretch, but I don't think they will really plan on closing up that loop much more!
- So Ben talks about the whispers. I guess he knows what that is all about? Will we ever find out? Or are we just going to be told that it's the "SOUND OF THE OTHERS" and to just deal with it?
- When Ben brings the baby back to Charles, the current leader of the Others is NOT a happy man. He gave orders for Ben to kill Rousseau, and then he said to kill the baby.
- Charles explains that everything he does is to protect the Island. Sounds familiar, Ben says that years later!
- Ben challenged Charles and asked if that is what Jacob would want. That it's just a child. This seems to be everyone's soft spot the past couple episodes. It's just a child! Ben challenges Charles even further by telling HIM to kill Alex. (technically, eventually he kinda does!) Thus, begins the downfall of Charles's reign on the Island.
- As I stated earlier, all of these events happened BEFORE the purge. Alex couldn't have been more than a few months old at that point which may put us around 1989ish. The purge was in 1992.
- This is clearly AFTER the purge as The OTHERS have taken over the Barracks (DHARMAVILLE). Ben is pushing Alex on the swingset and Richard is there.
- We can probably assume with certainty right now that Charles Widmore ordered the purge as he was still on the island when it happened. Ben said last season that he didn't give the order. It's never safe to assume without seeing though, especially with Ben involved!
- We also find out that Charles DID lie to Locke about how he left the island. He said he was tricked into turning the donkey wheel. But we see him kicked off the Island by Ben via Submarine.
- We learn that Penny was born OFF of the Island. Widmore made regular visits off of the island and had a life there. He had a child, Penny, with an outsider. This apparently is breaking the rules. Yikes, what rules are we talking about NOW?
- Ben claims he will be a better leader than Charles because he will sacrifice anything necessary for the island. But the issue comes up around how he wouldn't kill Alex.
- And the debate continues, did the island want Alex dead or did Charles? Charles states if the Island wants her dead she'll be dead and the roles will be reversed and Ben will be banished just like Charles is now. We see all of this play out in season 4 when Ben leaves the Island after Alex is killed by Keamy. Charles says you can't fight inevitability. Does this play into the Whatever Happened Happened philosophy from a FUTURE perspective? Whatever is meant to happen WILL happen? Is this why Locke is alive on the Island? Because he is supposed to be alive? My mind is just boggled folks!
- In any case, Charles is one ticked off dude. And I would guess ticked off enough 12ish years later to send a freighter to recruit Ben Linus, and perhaps kill his "daughter" in the process! Of course, based on that picture Miles had of Ben last season, it would appear that Ben made regular trips off of the island as well. And what's up with the 3.2 Million dollars? Maybe we'll find out about that soon! Yikes, I'm just rambling on and on aren't I?
Ever since we saw Ben tell Jack he had a promise to keep to an old Friend and then saw him make that bloody phone call to Jack later, we've been wondering what on earth happened to Penny, Desmond and little Charlie. Well, I'm excited to say that the RIGHT thing happened! But the way they tied it all together was pretty awesome.
- Ben makes a call to Charles as he is walking on the dock towards Penny and Desmond's boat. He tells Charles he is going back to the Island. Charles says he has been trying for 20 years and it's impossible. Ben says he will succeed where Charles failed. (Why wouldn't Widmore just go on the freighter WITH his crew if he wanted to go back so badly? Would the Freighter have not found the Island?)
- Ben tells Charles he is going to kill Penny and that he is looking at "Our Mutual Friend" right now. Ahhh good times, Desmond and Penny named the boat after the one Charles Dickens book that Desmond never read. He has been saving it to be the last thing he reads before he dies.
- But even better, Desmond with a bag of groceries in hand sees Ben and asks what he's doing there then BAM....Ben shoots Desmond (well he shoots the bag of groceries)
- Ben goes towards Penny, introduces himself and apologizes for her getting caught up in this. Penny explains she has no ties to her father. And as Ben is getting into explaining how awful Charles Widmore is and is responsible for killing his daughter....little Charlie comes out to the rescue!!! As we have learned earlier Ben cannot bring himself to kill the mother of a child! It's just a child!
- Ben lowers his gun, unable to proceed and BAM BROTHAAAAA...DESMOND comes and beats the living daylights out of Ben then throws him into the water. YEAAAAH!!!! Many of us were hoping that's how it went down and sure enough, it did. But the twist of using Charlie and the fact that Ben actually wasn't going to go through with it, a nice little addition of redemption for Ben's character. Beautifully done LOST WRITERS! Whew, with all the craziness going on in this episode, it was totally worth it for that scene.
- So the big question...what now is motivating Desmond to return to the island? or perhaps their crazy boat they are on will end up shipwrecked on the island, similar to when Desmond arrived the first time? Time will tell. But surely all of that talk about the rules not applying to Desmond and him being uniquely and miraculously special in the season premiere wasn't just for kicks. Maybe he factors in in getting everyone back to the future! Who needs Doc Brown when you have a time traveling SCOTSMAN?!
2007
Hydra Island - Ben and Locke catch upWhen we last left Ben and Locke last week, Ben was just waking up and Locke had a wonderful smirk on his face welcoming Ben back to the place where miracles happen. And we were all anxious to find out the rest of that conversation. Here's out it went down folks:
- First of all, Locke wakes Ben up. It didn't happen as suddenly as it was suggested in last week's episode that showed Ben waking up as soon as Richard too little Ben into the temple in 1977. I think they added that little line from John to confirm that the 2 events were completely separate.
- So after John's big line, Ben's bug eyes widened to new levels as he pronounced "I knew it!" This kind of falls in line with other things Ben said to Jack off of the island. The doubting Thomas story and Ben's reaction to Jack asking "he is dead, right?" Ben even gave a twist on the doubting Thomas story in saying that it's one thing to believe, but to see it is something else all together. (Thomas didn't believe until he saw Jesus risen from the dead)
- So instead of asking right away why Ben killed him, he asks why Ben was running away to the main island. Ben tells John he was going back to be judged. He "broke the rules" by returning to the island and now needed to be judged by "THE MONSTER." Ben claims The Others never had a name for it. We find out later, that this really isn't the reason Ben wanted to be judged. So then once again, what are these rules that he speaks of? Why was Ben able to come back and Charles wasn't? Is there even such a rule that the island won't let ex-leaders come back? And do these rules have anything to do with the rules of Time Travel that Faraday and Chang talk about? This Jacob guy is one crazy lawmaker!
- Later on we get the scene we were waiting for. Ben is in what we find out to be HIS office. (the same office that Caesar was looking around for supplies a few episodes back). Ben finds a picture of him and Alex and takes it "for sentimental reasons" he says.
- Locke, showing more confidence than ever, makes fun of Ben's office for a bit calling it "too corporate" but then wants to address the elephant in the room. Why on earth did Ben kill him?
- Here's the explanation from our most famous truth teller! It kinda makes sense I guess, in a demented weird sort of way. So it's hard not to believe him. Both Locke and Ben were aware that John had failed to convince the Oceanic 5 (no Aaron) to come back to the island and that the only way to really do it was for him to die. So then why did Ben talk him down from suicide? Locke had critical information that would have died with him and afterwards Ben didn't have time to talk Locke back into hanging himself (That got a good laugh out of me). It was in the best interest of the island. And "IT WORKED!" Everyone is back but they don't know where, Locke is alive. So it sounds like it had nothing to do with suicide vs. murder and trying to replicate whatever happened to Christian Shephard (although, I still think his death was more than a heart attack or a drunken bender).
- Locke humorously told Ben that he was just hoping for an apology. And that he is going to help Ben be judged. Locke does not completely trust Ben, with good reason. He tells Ben "if everything you have done was truly in the best interest of the island, then I'm sure the monster will understand." More to come on this!
"Sic Semper Tyrannis!" - Caesar's destiny
There were some interactions with some of the new island residents from flight 316. Here's what went down.
There were some interactions with some of the new island residents from flight 316. Here's what went down.
- We appear to see a distrusting Ben again who tells Caesar that the old man is crazy and that he doesn't remember him from the plane, doesn't even know him so couldn't possibly have "killed him." He suggests that Locke may be playing them and was already here on the island. During this conversation Ben finds out that Caesar has a gun and was planning to use it.
- When Locke and Ben later plan to take another outrigger to the main island, Caesar has some issues with this since he is "calling the shots" and he wants to know how Locke knows so much about the island. He reaches in his bag for his gun, Ben takes it out of his hiding place and takes Caesar down. RIP Caesar. So much for him playing a larger role on the show. I gotta say, not too disappointed by this one.
- So, keeping tabs on the outriggers, we know 2 of these things end up at the 815ers old camp. And there will be 2 at the dock near the barracks once Locke and Ben take one. And only one outrigger is at Hydra. Doesn't mean much now, but it plays into the end of the episode.
Main Island - Dharmaville aka Othersville
So Ben and Locke arrive at the dock that Sun and Frank parked their outrigger at. Locke puts his shoes back on as the 2 of them catch up on what happened between Sun, Frank and Ben before Locke "came back into the picture" so to speak. A quick recap, Sun knocked Ben out with an oar. And Ben explains that the injury to his arm was from something different (as we learned earlier in the blog, that was courtesy of the Scotsman brothaaaaa!!!)
- Ben explains to John that he finds sometimes friends are more dangerous than enemies. And that he killed Caesar because he had stolen the gun he was planning to use on Locke which set up the classic line "No sense in me dying twice right?"
- Ben and Locke head towards the Barracks to Ben's old house. It's the only place Ben knows where to summon the monster. Locke, seeming to have all the answers this time around on the island, informs Ben that he thinks Ben is lying about his reasoning for wanting to be judged. Ben doesn't care about RULES and leaving the island. He wants to be judged for essentially killing Alex (or letting her be killed to save himself). The look on Ben's face says it all. His old tricks don't seem to be working!
- Note, when they arrive to the Barracks the Processing Center sign is stil hanging off the roof of one of the buildings. So perhaps it wasn't a smoke monster illusion. We do see the windows are boarded up too though. Maybe no one ever went in that building? Kind of hard to believe that in all of the years The Others lived there that no one browsed in there and saw the DHARMA RECRUIT CLASS PHOTOS. Although, Ben seemed thoroughly surprised to see the picture later.
- Locke asks Ben if moving into the Others into the Barracks after the purge was Ben's idea. It doesn't seem like something the island would want. Ben tries to claim more knowledge about the island, but again Locke isn't buying it and just seems to have a better understanding than ever of what is going on. It is worth mentioning in season 3 that Locke explained that the use of technology seems against the Island's wishes and Ben told Locke then that he really didn't know what he was talking about.
- A creepy scene follows with a light on in Ben's old house and someone moving around in Alex's room. Locke tells Ben to check it out. When he goes into the house, we see an unfinished game of RISK still on the table. If you recall in "The Shape of Things to Come" Hurely, Sawyer and Locke were playing Risk right before the Red phone rang and Dharmaville went up in "smoke" (yep, dual meaning between the mercenaries blowing up some buildings and the Smoke Monster saving the day!) I think we see this table here to most certainly prove that no alternate timeline was created by our LOSTIES being in the DHARMA past.
- Ben also finds Sun and Frank in his house. They spare no time in going over the Sun vs. Ben battle. Frank shows Ben the DHARMA picture with Jack, Kate and Hurley in 1977. Ben claims not to know that they were in the DHARMA Initiative or really to know of the existence of the photo. But I'm skeptical. It seems like he is up to his lying ways again.
- Sun and Frank also inform Ben that they ran into a crazy old man named Christian who told them to wait here for John Locke but that they weren't holding their breath since the man is dead. This followed by them looking out the window and Locke politely waiving. Ahhh this crazy show.
- Sun and Frank are in disbelief. Locke explains there must be a good reason for him being alive but doesn't know why or how. Frank think they're all nuts. Leads for some good comedy of trusting a murderer, a dead guy and believing that everyone else is 30 years ago. He pretty much tells Sun he is out of this and planning to head back to the plane to try and radio for help.
- Locke convinces Sun that she will never find her husband if she leaves with Frank. Well, it is the whole reason she abandoned her 3 year old daughter, so she better go with Locke! Locke, again seeming to have a plan which he never had in his 1st Island life, said he has some ideas on how to find Jin. Where is this information coming from?
- Sidenote: Did Lapidus and Locke ever really meet last season? I don't think they did! He had heard the name from Hurley on the life raft when they explained that he moved the island and he knew the name from the manifest since he studied and memorized the whole thing. But I just thought it was interesting that they never met, and that he acted like he knew Locke in this scene. Such is life on a TV show I guess!
- Anyway, before Locke can go forth with his plans, he is forcing Ben to carry through with his mission to be judged.
- Ben opens up his secret door that we saw last season, and we get to follow Ben down into the cave this time around. There is a lantern (just like in the donkey wheel cave) and Ben crawls his way down to a nice puddle of muddy water. He pulls something in the water like a drain, and the water goes down. Ben tells "Smokey" that he'll be outside. So I wonder if there is significance to the WATER? Does that keep Smokey at bay? Is that why the thing never wanders around the beaches? Eh, just me doing some crazy speculating.
- Ben goes outside and sees Sun but no Locke. Locke told Sun he had something to do and Ben was confused on what it possibly could be. So are we Ben!
- Sun is confused to how Locke is alive and is convinced Jack lied. Ben tells Sun that Locke was indeed dead and now is alive. He says he had no idea it would happen even though he told Locke he KNEW it would happen. He has seen the island do miraculous things like heal the sick but never bring someone back from the dead. "DEAD IS DEAD. you don't get to come back from that, not even here" Locke being alive scares the living hell out of him.
- Well it sure seems like Ben feels that way, but why lie to Sun? To cover up that he is the one that killed Locke? So if Dead is Dead, I guess that is trying to confirm to us that everyone else that was dead on the island is truly dead, which includes visions we'll see later in the episode. What does this say about Christian Shephard? The producers have always said that Christian is certifiably dead. And I would say the fact that he shows up in various time periods would support that theory (visiting Locke at the Donkey Wheel). It's just tough delivering your messages via Ben, the lying machine! Especially when he tells a lie while explaining it!
- Locke returns and Smokey never shows up. He tells Ben that they will have to go TO the monster instead of trying to summon it. Ben argues that he doesn't know where it is. Locke bluntly says "I do." Okay, I give up. Where is Locke getting his information from? Is he in communion with the island now that he is risen from the dead? Where did he go when he went into the jungle. Did he go to the cabin? Ben wasn't gone for THAT long.
Main Island - Journey to the Temple
- Before departing to find ol' Smokey, Locke tries to assure Sun that he understands how weird this is with him being alive, but that he's the same John Locke he has always been.
- On the journey, Ben is clearly freaked out and asking Locke question after question. How does Locke know where he is going? How did he get this brain dump of information? Did he suddenly wake up one day and know all the answers to the universe?
- Locke is loving the role reversal and how Ben has to blindly follow Locke just Locke had to follow Ben in hopes he would find what he was looking for.
- Ben realizes where they are going, he tells them it's where they brought him as a boy. It's where the island healed him. The Temple. They arrive at the wall and we are told that the temple is a half mile past the wall which was built to keep the NON-OTHERS out. As I stated before, I'm guessing the temple itself will be a season 6 reveal. But for now, Locke has other plans in mind. They are going under the Temple into into the CAVE where we saw Smokey drag Montand sans arm and the rest of Rousseau's crew.
- Of course, perhaps the temple is the answer to reuniting the crew in the 1977 and 2007 and we just do not know that yet. I guess we'll see.
- Ben is a little freaked out about going into Smokey's residence and tells Sun if she ever leaves the island to tell Desmond he's sorry. (obviously we know what he's sorry for) Of course it makes me wonder if Sun is going to get separated from Locke and Ben after the 2 of them head into the cave. Sure, Ben thought he was marching off to his death and wouldn't get a chance to get his message across himself. But I dunno, just got that feeling. Also, does this mean that Sun and Jin after they are reunited may try to leave the island to be with their child? Time will tell.
- Locke and Ben head into the cave. To Be Continued!
Hydra Island - Frank Returns
- Well, I pointed out earlier that there was only 1 outrigger at Hydra Island. Well the 2nd one returned with Frank and he didn't run into friendly company when he returned.
- Ilana found a stash of guns (maybe in the Hydra closet where Jack grabbed a gun in season 3?) and has taken over the reigns of the motley 316 crew. When Frank goes to see Ilana she points the gun at him and asks the secret question "what did one snowman say to the other?" Just kidding! She said "What lies in the shadow of the statue?"
- Frank had no idea what the answer was and was tied up.
- Ilana tells another guy with a gun to get everyone else and tell them that it's time. I guess she asked EVERYONE the question to see if they were with her? Speaking of with her, who is SHE with? Who recruited her to get Sayid? Was it Ben? Widmore? An unkown party? Is she the leader of the new threat that will face our LOSTIES in this season and the next? Is this the introduction to the WAR that is coming to the Island where Locke needs to be there for the right side to win? (according to lying man Charles Widmore of course)
- Lots of questions, the one thing we probably can confirm is that the 2 outriggers on Hydra and the Ajira water bottle we see are the things that make their way to the 815ers old camp and the same people that chase after at shoot at Locke, Juliet, Sayid, Miles, Dan and Charlotte when they take 1 of the outriggers to the Orchid. Stay tuned for the rest of their story in a future episode.
Main Island - The Cave
- As Locke and Ben head further into the cave with their torches, Ben tells Locke he was right about why he wants to be judged. He let Alex die in order to not leave the island. And now he has to answer for that. He asks Locke to let him go on his way alone.
- As Ben walks on he falls through the floor into yet another room filled with ancient Egyptian lore. Heiroglyphics galore. Clearly, I'm not liscenced to translate this stuff for everyone, but feel free to give it a shot! There are more pictures on Sledgeweb's site linked here.
- Ben makes his way through the room to a wall with a very telling engraved picture on it. It appears to be the Egyptian God Anubis feeding our Smoke Monster a treat. This picture here is a mythological delight. First of all, there was much speculation that the 4 toed statue HAS to be the Egyptian God of the Underworld after we saw the shot of the statue's back. This picture goes a long way in supporting that theory. To help the theory along, there is also an Ankh which is carried by Anubis and also referenced in the same episode we saw the statue ("LaFleur"). There is also a Serpent hanging out with Anubis in the picture for all of you "the island is the Garden of Eden" theorists out there! And on the left side of the picture a WHEEL of some sort maybe? No clue. What does all this mean? You got me. But clearly again, we are being told that this island has strong ancient Egyptian origins or at least strong signs of the island's original inhabitants.
- As Ben stares in fear at the picture, his torch goes out and our pal Smokey comes out of the grates below it and encapsulates Ben.
- When we saw the smoke monster meet Eko for the first time, we saw images from Eko's past throughout the smoke. This time it is taken a step further as we see Ben re-experiencing some pretty bad moments in his life and with Alex including the moment where he lets her die. Ben is clearly torn up be seeing all of this and unlie Eko, seems to be very sorry for what he has done.
- The smoke eventually subsides and Ben's torch all of a sudden lights back up. What is THAT all about?
- But then like Eko was visited by Yemi, Ben is visited by Alex (all seeming to be the Smoke monster taking the form of these people). Ben apologizes to Alex and says that everything was his fault. She goes after him, pushes him against a wall and tells him that she knows he is planning to kill Locke AGAIN. If he so much as touches Locke, she will hunt him down and destroy him. She instructs him to follow his every word and do anything he asks Ben to do. Ben hesitates but then fearfully promises to do this.
- I guess if Smokey can take the form of Yemi and Alex and in both cases be able to interact and have physical contact with people, it's not a stretch to say that Christian Shephard is the same. But why is Christian appearing to more people than just Jack? Michael, Ben, Locke, Hurley, Sun, Frank and even Vincent (the mobisode) have seen Christian. Something tells me he is a bit different. But I still hesitate to say he is reincarnated like Locke.
- Anyway, back to Ben. Alex disappears into thin air. We hear Locke screaming down to Ben . He has some rope and sends it down to Ben. Locke asks what happened? Ben, looking like the fear of God, Jacob or Locke has been put into him responds "It Let me Live"
BOOM LOST!
Nothing really to say except....WHA????? Lots of headscratching to go around in this episode. So Smokey is judging people. Yeah, we kinda got that before with Eko. But is it judging everyone? Did it judge the 815 Pilot? Or did he just kill him because he wasn't supposed to be flying the plane? (Frank was) And another thing, when do we know when we can trust what Ben is saying? Only when we SEE what he is saying is true? (i.e. Ben telling Sun to trust him that Locke died. We saw Ben kill Locke) Or can we now believe Locke knows all and when he suspects Ben of lying, then we know it's a lie? And how does Locke know everything? Where was he for that first day or 2 when Ajira 316 crash landed on Hydra? Could that be helping to explain what is going on? Where did he go when he went into the jungle? Will Young Ben ever see the LOSTIES in 1977 again or will he remain with the Others until they are gone...helping to solidify him not remembering them? But what would that say about the 3 years that Sawyer, Juliet, Miles and Daniel were there? Oh yeah, where IS Daniel? While we're at it, why doesn't Richard age?
The funny thing is, I thought we were more in ANSWER mode these days on LOST. But there are still lots of questions to go around. It should be interesting to see how it is all resolved in. 22 more hours! Overall, the episode was a good time (I know, I always say it) but man was I confused! Please, join in on my confusion and post your thoughts of "Dead is Dead" and what is going on on LOST Island! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings (and I do ramble quite a bit with this show!) and I'll see you next week. NAMASTE!
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Special thanks as always to Sledgeweb for providing awesome screen shots on their site.
74 comments:
Kudos on the recap Mike! I wonder why when Ben was getting judged that Smokey focused on Alex. We know he has done a lot worse than indirectly let his not-real daughter die. Why did none of that matter? Especially the purge.
I don't know. If I have to choose sides I choose Ben is telling the truth about doing whatever it takes for the sake of the island. True, Smokey let Ben live but Ben is still getting "punished" by being forced into obeying Locke and seeing a new Leader in his place.
And am I reading too much into Alex's choice of words...she said she (aka Smokey) will destroy Ben. Not kill him, destroy him. Just semantics?
Ilana so works for Ben. The interaction between them when Ben asked if he could help carry the large crate was his way of telling them to get started with the plan. Don’t know what the plan is but I think Alex was right and it’s the start of him killing Locke again and retaking the island for himself. We’ll see what comes of it now that Ben is scared straight but I think he’ll still try to pull it all off.
Hey Mike,
Good recap as always! First off, was it just me or did anyone think why DID it take so long for Smokie to come out?? Had he already forgiven Ben in some way?? B/c it never took that long before and when it was coming out of that vent in the temple - didn't it seem weak (it was gray and not black) and moved so much slower than usual??? Did it know that Ben already felt bad and hence let him come to the island?? I mean it killed Eko b/c Eko def didn't feel bad?? Anyways just a thought.
Also, I don't think Widmore told John that it was the frozen donkey wheel.... I think all he had said was Ben tricked him into leaving the island for good.... How is he not able to come back? Maybe he is, but doesn't know HOW to??? Like which flights to take that would be in the same coordinates? Or maybe Ellie told him that his time is done with the island and he shouldn't come back?
Ok, was it just me (again) that when John was talking to Sun about being the same person.... was it me or was he addressing the "elephant" in the room again or was he able to read Sun's mind?? B/c it was like he answered her question yet she was startled like what? I didn't say anything.. or did she think it and John heard it?? I duno but I think upon his resurrection he may have gained more powers OR he just gained some type of intuition/faith that is just more powerfully in tuned with the island??
And Ilana and company are weird - I don't think they are the "war that is coming" - there is something more - b/c now we have more confirmation with Egyptian influences that that's a whole another theory I have lol....
Good job again, LOVED this episode
Mona
Thanks horseman! Not sure if it's just for the flow of the episode with what Smokey judged him for or not....but that seemed to be Ben's purpose for going there. Maybe Smokey was able to read what was on Ben's mind. And of course, the PURGE may be what Widmore has to answer to. But if the Purge was Jacob's wish, and Smokey is on Jacob's side....then would anyone have to answer for that?
It would seem that since Ben survived his bout with Smokey that he truly is doing what's in the best interest for the island. But that doesn't keep him from lying from time to time. Just a bad habit for him i guess!
Not sure about "DESTROY" vs "KILL" but we did see what smokey did to ol Montand!
good call on the Crate stedman. I totally blew off anything to do with moving that crate the whole episode. But I'm sure it holds some significance now that you mention it!
Thanks Mona. interesting thoughts on smokey and locke and all of that. I'll answer with an I don't know! lol
But as for Widmore...he definitely told Locke that he knew Locke would be there because Ben tricked him into turning that wheel. He definitely lied to Locke. I'll have to find the exact quote...but for now, take my word for it!
Perhaps Jacob can enter and control the bodies of the dead (Christian, Alex, maybe now Locke...). This would help explain how Locke now knows so much. Maybe Jacob can embody more than one person, and maybe there can be sort of a partial embodiment - enough to bring the person back to life and give them new knowledge, but where they don't lose their own identity, memories, etc. --Nicole H
Did Widmore say he's been trying 20years to get back in 2007 ?? Cause that makes no sense as that would mean that Widmore was forced off the island in 1987 !
MJ...i'm pretty sure that's what it said, but you're right...the math doesn't add up there. Maybe he was exaggerating? Maybe that's how they'd explain it! lol
Nicole, you're guess is as good as any with what's going on on that crazy Island! I just don't know anymore! lol I guess the difference with Locke vs. Christian, Alex, Yemi...is that the latter 3 seem to appear out of nowhere...and Christian has been in different time periods.
Of course, maybe that's one of Locke's ideas on how to get them back to 1977 or something.... i have no idea what is going on with this crazy show!
Mike, great recap.
Talking about Locke, I fear that we might be forgetting Season 1 and 2 John Locke who knew when it was going to rain, and was judged by the monster, and all of that other weird stuff that happened to him. I think seeing him with Ben and having someone he could ask questions might have made him forget about his bond with the island. He knew to go back to the donkey wheel and stop the time jumping. I agree he is more attuned to the island than before, but maybe not as much as we really think.
Love all of the theories. And the preview for next week....I am so excited.
Yeah - they definitely have to fill up the hole they left us with. Either Ben was lying to Sun when he said he did not remember the O5 from his past, or they leave Dharmaville pretty soon.
I'm leaning towards cdstedman's thought that Ilana is with Ben. There definitely was a strange vibe in the scene. And due to Smokey Alex we DO know that Ben came back intending to get up to his old tricks.
They definitely went out of their way to show that all the mind games and lying are still in play. Ben was lying left and right, we've now caught Widmore lying.
As for Cesar - I was surprised. Thought there would be something about this character, didn't see him as a red shirt. LOL
I've often thought that Pen looked alot like Hawking - so now I know that that my suspicion of Hawking being her mom is false. LOL
Very curious that Widmore is supposedly banished because he was secretly leaving the island and had a child with an outsider. I thought the reasons would be so much more than that. Besides the fact that we know Ben and others came and went, Ben brought outsider Alex into otherdom, so the reasoning for Charles is just not seeming to add up to me.
Daniel, great point you brought up about Season 1/2 (even 4) Locke with the rain predictions. Maybe it is the same ol' Locke we are seeing. Just that he's totally believing again.
So....one other point brought up on my gather.com version of the blog. Rousseau suspected Ben of being one of the OTHERS when he trapped her for sayid because she probably recognized him from Ben stealing Alex as a child. How about that for irony!? Of course, she doesn't recognize Jin at the same time? hmmmmmmmm lol
Hmm - Ilana could also be a new Dharma recruit, there to take back their island.
Didn't they run some commercials this past summer looking for new Dharma recruits ????
Great recap, as always!
A question I have is -- and maybe I'm completely forgetting about something -- how do the Others get to and from the island before they take over the Dharma stations and have access to the submarine, etc. I sort of assumed they didn't leave, but then apparently Charles Widmore left on a regular basis. Do we know how he would have done that?
- MC
MC, we also knew Richard left the Island to see Locke born in the 50's and another time after that. He told Locke that leaving the island is priveleged information. Hopefully we'll find out what that is!
MJ...i guess DHARMA could be returning to the island! Which reminds me...remember the video with CHANG from comic-con with suppsedly Faraday filming? Maybe that's where Dan is? He's working with Chang...and maybe that wasn't the purge that was about to happen in the video...but the INCIDENT! lol
Anyway, Doc Jensen is theorizing that maybe what lies in the shadow of the (4-toed) statue is Jughead. hmmmm not bad!
And, I guess I made an assumption that Ben was telling LOCKE the truth that he knew he'd come back vs. telling Sun the lie that he didn't know. It could've been vice versa! It was that whole doubting thomas speech he gave jack that just made me think he was telling the truth. But then again...why would SMOKEY ALEX suggest Ben was planning to kill Locke again? hmmmmmm I love BEN's character....but the inability to know when he's telling the truth when he's revealing important information is downright frustrating! LOL
Does anyone have any theories about Ethan? Do you think that he was kidnapped as a baby too? He seemed so cold hearted - I wonder if he also went to the temple with Richard.
I think Alpert is one of the previous inhabitants of the island. Thats why hes always been around through the various time travels and doesnt seem to age. Plus the "your eyeliner wearing friend" refrence Sawyer made reminds me of Egyptian tradition perhaps Alperts from then?
At this point I guess we just have to assume that Young Ben goes back to Dharmaville and at some point befriends a young Ethan and brings him over to the dark side ?
Haven't read Jenson yet, but that's an interesting theory about Jughead being in the foot of the statue.
I think the role of Smokey is clearer now (at least, to me). It's been called a security system, we know it's a shape shifter and now we see its role as a judge. Perhaps the last part should've been obvious, but I'd never really understood Eko's run-in with it before. I think it's supposed to be a tool for making sure the island's best interests are carried out.
This episode was a fascinating look into the character of Ben. It's interesting how he told Widmore he'd only do what's best for the island, but we see later that he was apparently corrupted by his power (much like Widmore apparently was). I think the island let Ben live because it knows he's still useful. I'm a little surprised by how much of a heart he has. Last week Richard said his innocence would be gone.
I think I'm going to love the rest of this season. Locke is my favorite character, and it appears he's calling the shots now. How awesome is that?
The whispers have to be some sort of information transmission system between the Others (or perhaps Jacob) and the island. I've heard that suggested somewhere before. Was it here? Perhaps the whispers were what told Richard last week that Sawyer and Kate were coming with young Ben.
I can't take credit for thinking of this one, but is there a chance that Ilana and her friends have been "infected" by Smokey, like Rousseau's crew was infected back in the day? They are acting pretty weird.
Also, what do you think about the concept that Christian "needed to die" in order to get Jack to come to the island in the first place? Maybe he was taking the place of someone else who was flown to the island in a coffin before him (like Locke did for him). And when Christian arrived at the island, he was risen from the dead, just like Locke was. Maybe this whole "re-creating the conditions" thing is a process that has been repeated over and over again through time.
I was thinking the same thing about the 316ers being infected by smokey. Maybe that is why smokey took so long to come see Ben! Maybe it was busy corrupting the 316ers. But maybe not... we don't know if smokey can go to the smaller island.
But the 316ers are on Hydra, not the main island. Can Smokey move across the water?
Better scenario is Ilana and her friends are plants (Widmore?) and the "What lies in the shadow of the statue" is the question/password used to determine who is supposed to be with her and who isn't. Her instructions could have been... "When you find the guns, start asking the question... my people will know the answer."
Mike V said: Hmmm....so where was the black smoke that Rousseau said she saw before they took Alex?
Remember when Sayid and Charlie went to where the black smoke was and found Rousseau with Aaron? She was trying to lure the others to make a trade for Alex. I always took it that she made up the story about the black smoke, she thought the others would come see what it was about,the others never really did the black smoke thing.
I was very shocked about the killing of Caeser, I thought that he was going to be more important. WOW!
I thought it was a great show, I am so ready for more!!
Great recap as always, Mike. One thing you missed, though... When Ben was waiting for Smokey outside of his house, he told Sun that she had to go inside because what was about to come out of that forest was something he couldn't control. And, lo and behold, it was not Smokey but John Locke. In other words, unlike just about everyone else he comes in contact with, and contrary to what most people seem always to have thought about Ben manipulating Locke, we're being told here that John Locke is someone that Ben cannot control. Of course, this is a foreshadowing of what we see later in the episode with Ben learning that he was to obey Locke in the future. But it's very interesting that we get this clue even before that command comes down.
was it here where some people were wondering where Locke went when he made sun wait for him outside ben's house? Could it be that he was gathering materials to make the torches that they carry later?
Rewatched the episode. Noticed that they showed the highlight of Sawyer (Lafleur) telling Richard to take wounded Ben, quickly followed by the scene where Richard tells Charles that Jacob told him to take Ben. So, does that mean Sawyer is Jacob? Or was there another "discussion" that we don't see between Jacob and Richard? Or is Richard lying? Something to think about!
Ok - I have a whacky thought germinating. Not sure I even have it all fleshed out yet LOL
What is Sawyer is..... Jacob !
Widmore was mad that young Ben was taken to the temple, what shut him up was Richard saying 'Jacob wanted it'. We saw that it was Kate and Sawyer who brought young Ben and they who said yes, do it, when Richard told them the repurcussions of doing it. So it was Sawyer who 'wanted it'.
In 75 when Sawyer first came to Dharmaville he went to the fence line to talk to Richard about knowing Locke. So for 3 years (75 - 77) Richard has known that Sawyer is from the future, has seen the future and can tell him what is to come.
Is Richard using Sawyer to keep his people in line ? Telling them of this mysterious 'Jacob' and seeming to have knowledge that no one else could have, and that it is really Sawyer supplying the info ???
LOL - I only just read your post after I sent mine Horseman - I swear it !
Too too funny that we came to the same suspicion !
Not sure if this has been said, but when the Others, led by Ben, send the "list" of 815er's, isn't it EXACTLY the 1977 crew? And the fact that he doesn't remember Sayid there after the shooting would explain why he wasn't on the list. So, I think Ben DOES remember who was there in 1977 and in fact has something to do with them getting back there.
One of questions I have is what was it exactly that Locke HAD to go do? Seems to me that this is a key piece of info that is being inadvertently looked over. I suspect it will become key to a future episode.
Regarding Widmore's banishment and being off island, it's interesting that they used the sub to transport Charles off the island. I always assumed he was tricked into turning the FDW. That would have explained how Widmore knew EXACTLY where to look for the exit point. How did he know where to set up the cameras? I highly doubt Ben told him where to look when he visited him in his bedroom.
Good blog Mike; nice comments everyone.
If Ben really believes that dead is dead, then why doesn't it scare the hell out of him that Richard Alpert is walking around not aging? Healing the sick and granting immortality aren't exactly the same thing, so there must be something to make Ben think Richard is an exception to the rule. Surely he has noticed that Richard isn't getting any older.
Didn't Ben tell a joke of some sort in a previous episode to Richard about him not knowing about birthdays. Now that was good times.
I just have a couple of questions:
I don't remember Richard ever saying that Ben tricked him, either to turn the frozen donkey wheel, or anything else. I remember him saying that whatever Ben had he took from him, but never tricked. I think that was a theory (rumor) that spread among Lost fans and somehow got turned into 'fact' via Lostpedia. If anyone remembers an episode that Charles says Ben tricked him, I would like to know that.
I don't think that Richard said Ben wouldn't remember anything about being shot, just that he wouldn't remember what Richard was going to do to heal him. I think that Ben remembers Sayid quite well, which explains why he tells Sayid that he's a killer - because Sayid told him that, because he told Sayid that, etc. (head spins).
MJ and Horseman, I don't think that Sawyer is Jacob, because Locke tells Richard that Jacob sent him (in 1954) and Richard knew the name back then, so unless Sawyer flips back in time again, it couldn't be him, but who knows?
ok a couple of things,
first off, why isn't richard the others leader???? he seems to know what the right thing to do is and he seems so leaderish(lol). i always thought from the first time i saw him that he should be the leader. and he would never die so they would always have a good leader,lol.
also, i no it didn't seem like along time, but i thought that when locke went into the jungle he went to the cabin, it can move so maybe it moved closer. also that would explain for his all knowingness. but i dont know maybe he was doing something else.
another thing, when roussoue first met sayid she told him that she had never seen an other just heard, but she saw ben and she thought he was an other. she also told him that her crew was infected by the others but then in the little prince she said it was the monster, so whats up with that stuff,lol. is she just crazy and forgot some stuff like that.
and gnni4 in the life and death of jeremy benthem when locke and widmore are talking widmore tells him that ben tricked him into turning the donkey wheel so that he could be the leader. so i no for a fact that he said he turned the FDW.
good recap again, and what an amazing episode!!!!!!!!!!!
Mary, thanks for naming the episode where Widmore says Ben tricked him, I missed that remark, I need to watch it again.
Mr. V...another fine recap man!
Has anybody thought about this:
One of the running themes of LOST has been individuals having to become their despised predecessors. For instance, Jack becomes an alcoholic and substance abuser post-Oceanic 6 escape, Sawyer takes the name and profession of the man responsible for his parent's murder-suicide, Locke uses the people around him to further his own agenda in order to eventually move beyond them, et al.
And now we know that Ben was forced to become Charles, to becomke so concerned for the safety of the Island that he was willing to let his own daughter be killed, in order to reconnect with some of that innocence that Smokey took from him those many years ago.
Jacob is Locke and Locke is Jacob. I have analyzed stills of Jacob's eye and profile and stills of Locke's profile and eyes and they match up perfectly. So unless the just have Terry O'Quinn sitting in for Jacob because they have yet to find the ultimate actor, they are definitely one and the same.
Hi guys,
Great recap and interesting comments, as usual!
Concerning Richard not aging; another site states that he went back in time (100 years) and simply won't show signs of aging until he catches up to the time when he originally sent himself back (2007). It would also explain how he knows so much and seems to appear out of nowhere when he is needed.
www.timelooptheory.com
/the_timeline.html
when do we see profiles of Jacob and his eyes? From what I remember all we saw was a ghost in a chair that was moving when he made the cabin blow around.
Here are two links that I found that support my argument followed by a third link of my enhanced version of Jacob. You be the judges.
http://img227.imageshack.us/img227/9...comaprexx0.jpg
http://www.sromedia.net/flash/John-Jacob.gif
http://img9.imageshack.us/img9/8117/lockeenhanced.th.jpg"
I'm Wrong. Meet Jacob
http://lostpedia.wikia.com/wiki/Rob_Kyker
max- i know that when they filmed "the man behind the curtain" that they did not know who would be playing jacob, and that they used their set director.so they didn't use the actor that plays locke, but i guess it still could be him in the end, even though that would not be my first choice,lol.
mike, great recap as always!
this episode was very confusing to me, though i liked it.
at this point i don't believe a single word that comes out of ben's mouth. he's constantly lying, and then lies about lying... you can never know the truth. not until the end of the show anyway lol. but i liked how they showed his compassionate side this episode and his touchy-feely thing about alex and what happened with penny's charlie.
oh and about that scene, we saw lovely desmond beating the hell out of ben but i don't recall seeing him touch his arm in any shape or form. he just punched him really bad and threw him into the water. so what happened to ben's arm?! did he fake it for some reason and that's why he took his sling off when he got back on the island? so it wasn't the island who cured him after all? it seems unlikely cuz there's no motive for him to do so, which tells me that someone else did something to his arm. i might be mistaken or missing something but it just looks weird to me.
according to ilana, i think she's in widmore's crew (remember all the talk about a war between him and ben) and what lies in the shadow of the statue is probably jughead, and that was a password of some sort to see if lapidus is on their side. maybe widmore is after jughead now and wants it to go KABOOM.
mike the plumber - i like your theory about dear mr. alpert.
i think with all the egyptian symbols on the walls where ben went to meet smokey and richard looking egyptian (and it's not just the eyeliner thing), i think he's very much connected to the ancient past and origin of the island/it's natives.
woa...lots of comments since i last commented...so I'm just gonna let them all speak for themselves! Great discussion everyone and thanks for the props on the blog.
Couple things to add.....i listened to the producer's podcast thursday (just haven't had time to post!) They said that we intentionally should be getting from the last episode that you can't trust a single word Ben says. (duh! lol) But Carlton sided with the fact that what Ben said to Sun seems to be the TRUTHFUL side to Ben. That makes sense too because we have seen Ben try to kill Locke two times now....and apparently he was working on a 3rd time. I dunno...they've done a fabulous job creating a liar on the show so hopefully they never use him to reveal major mysteries of the show! lol
also, people have been talking about what happened to Ben and Desmond after their encounter. I just assumed the bullet "missed" Desmond as an act of FATE and the fact that Desmond still has work to do (similar the sawyer not getting shot in the 70's, michael not being able to kill himself, jack not being able to jump off the bridge...etc....) Anyway, apparently confirmed by the producers...Desmond DID get hit...and we should be concerned for his well being at this point. This tells me that we will have to be following up the scene we saw with something from Dez and Penny's perspective. I guess we kinda figured that would happen anyway!
Couple other things...pre-hash for next week's episode. They refused to add any more significance to the name of next week's episode because the HOMAGE in the title is pretty obvious! (for any big Star Wars nerd! lol) They said the episode will be a lighter and "more fun" episode in preparation of the serious/darker stuff to come.
I wonder if my joke a few blogs back about DHARMA going off-island to see Star Wars will come true! LOL doubtful!
Anyway...it's been a couple days since I listened to the podcast now but it was a good time. You can subscribe at itunes or check on abc.lost.com and listen for yourself! (OFFICIAL ABC LOST PODCAST)
Again, great discussion everyone and I'll try to post and contribute more later!
12:35 PM, April 12, 2009
Thanks mike! I love those podcasts too. I am also a huge fan of the jay and jack podcast. They are just fun to listen to and share lost with in addition to this site!
About ben's arm.. Is it possible he hurt it when des charged at him and slammed him down?
Forgot to add one more thing from the podcast. They also talked about how it was an 11 hour discussion in the writers room of what time travelers could take with them from flash to flash. Here goes:
the INITIAL FLASH, anything that they were in contact with at the time, is on the ENTIRE JOURNEY with them (including the zodiac raft)....for every subsequent flash, anything they were in contact with at that time came with them.
So...since they mentioned the zodiac raft ....i have developed a pseudo theory on Bernard and Rose's whereabouts. We know the zodiac raft (that flashed in time with them) was off the beach when Sawyer, Locke and crew visited in the "future" So I'm guessing Rose and Bernard may have run into our Ajira 316 crew (Ilana and other evil people)...and took off in the zodiac. So maybe we'll run into them in the "PRESENT DAY" from the Ajira people's perspective. What happens after that is anyone's guess. Should be pretty crazy!
jane - anything is possible on lost lol but it just didn't seem like ben was having any kind of discomfort with his arm, but then again he was so quite and kinda calm when des hit him...
anywyas, they will definitely go back to it from another perspective, let's just hope it'll happen soon!
and they better bring faraday back soon too cuz i miss him and his crazy talk lol.
Love the idea of Sawyer being Jacob. In rewatching some episodes, there are possibly some more clues. In "The Man from Talahassee" there was a description by Ben of Jacob that sooo reminded me of the two Dharma guys a few episodes back in LaFleur going to dirupt Jacob/LaFleur. That would be subtle. But, later in the episode "The Man From Talahassee" Ben is talking to 'Jacob.' I swear at one point he starts to call Jacob Sawy...then gets interupted by Locke. I was trying to think if Locke just couldn't see Sawyer/Jacob because somehow their timelines were split off....but, then my head hurts with time travel ideas. But, Ben is a liar about everything anyway.
There is also a cute scene in Expose where they talk about the "Good guy" strip club owner really being the "Bad guy" Cobra and just as Hurley finds out this dual role, they flash to Sawyer. That would be a cool clue, but, I'm probably reaching.
As for Ilana and her crew, is there any chance the reason their asking what lies in the shadow of the statue is known by them because they're from the past? Or is the shadow the smoke monster and it contains lies?? Oh man, I think this show makes one overthink everything. I was thinking the Temple contains a portal on/off the island and that is how they were able to go there to fix Ben.
Richard = Anubis
and thus the Island = the Underworld of Anubis
The smoke monster can become anyone that has died. It manifests itself into different people, so that he can convince the people who are alive, to do what it wants them to do. Locke, Christian, Charlie, Richard etc. "Dead is Dead". The smoke monster has a master plan to save the island and it is using all the dead people to convince everyone who is alive to do what it wants. Richard never looks older because that is how old he looked when he died and the smoke monster uses him, just like he is using Locke as a vehicle to get things done.
Love the blog. I had to wait until Sunday night to read it this week.
This show always leaves me with so many questions. Maybe someone can help me sort it out.
If Jacob is all those people, is it Claire also? We don't know if Claire is dead or alive?
How does Smokey get off the island? Why would Claire/Smokey tell Kate to never bring Aaron to the island?
Doesn't Ben and Locke say that EVERYONE must come back. Not everyone is back yet.
How did Walt come back to Shannon and Locke? Was it a dream? Does Walt dream and creates visions for others?
What is the "magic box'? Who has come to the island that way?
Please list all the ways people have come to the island so far.
I think Richard is a guardian from the original inhabitants. Somehow he has eternal life.
good call anonymous, at first reading your comment i thought no way. But if the smoke monster was locke, it would make sense why he didnt come when ben unplugged the drain and "summoned" him. Because he was already locke. And then when they go the smoke monsters cave, the smoke doesnt appear until locke is gone.
Still, probably doubt it... but its an intersting theory and would make sense...
Yeah, I'm back and forth on Locke being dead or alive. I tend to think his revival is different than that of Christian Shephard who possibly might be different than Yemi and Alex (smokey manifestations) We just need more information!
But the one thing that makes me think Locke might certifiably be alive is that Smokey Alex told Ben "I know you are planning to kill him AGAIN" If the Smoke Monster is telling Ben that Locke is alive...who knows? Of course on an Island where Smokey creates LIARS out of people (Ben, Rousseau's husband Robert) who knows what to believe?
Anyone have any thoughts to why Locke was taking off Christian's shoes to travel from Hydra Island to Main Island? Was it simply because he didn't want to get them wet or possibly more significance?
Okay...so detail out ways everyone got to Island. This should be fun:
- Flight 815 Crashed on Island (learning this season they probably "FLASHED" to the Island like Ajira 316 did by passing through a "window")
- Desmond arrived via Sailboat
- Freighter arrived following a bearing supposedly after the Island became VISIBLE to the outside world (desmond blew the hatch)
- Locke's Dad was supposedly retrieved from a highway in Florida via the Magic Box. we still don't know what this is but we do know that Ben asked TOM do retrieve him. We also know that Tom told Michael that "SOME OF US" can come and go from the Island as they please. We can assume Richard is another as we saw him off island in 1956 and other times prior to the "DHARMA SUB" being there.
- Juliet and DHARMA recruits "SUPPOSEDLY" arrived via the submarine. Although, no one has been conscious for this trip. So we don't know for sure if it is actually the sub. We know that there is a sub docking station at the LOOKING GLASS Station, so I have always speculated that there is more to this.
- Black Rock - unknown how it arrived but we know that it was in the Indian Ocean when it happened. My guess is that it somehow "FLASHED" also and ended up in the middle of the island.
- Nigerian Plane - must have also "FLASHED" to the island...but we did see Locke witness the plane arriving at the island when he time traveled back to that point in time when it happened. At the time we thought the Island moved WITH Locke. But now I'm thinking that the Island might be stationary but moving through time. and things move TO IT through these flashes or whatever. ugh...i have no idea! lol
- Rousseau's crew arrived via boat and were caught in a storm when they were shipwrecked on the Island.
- And Ajira 316 arrived through an "open window" transporting the passengers into various times based on certain unknown circumstances.
Did I miss any? lol
Forgot to mention this with the SMOKEY stuff. Supporting clues to Christian being a smokey manifestation:
- Smokey was around in DHARMAVILLE when he was showing Sun and Frank the picture.
- the smoke alarm went off "OFF ISLAND" when he appeared to Jack in "Something Nice Back Home"
one more note! I made an assumption above that Ben was possibly "CHANGED" into the liar he is today by being exposed to the Smoke Monster. That has not been proven! lol
Everytime I convince myself Locke is "alive" I think about the title "Dead is Dead" which leads me to think he is dead (too).
Doc Jensen!
and Happy LOST Day everyone!
Not a big deal, but, I think Ben asked Richard to get the man from Talahasee, not Tom. It was a weird scene in Ben's room where he was talking to Tom, and out of nowhere Richard is there. I think somehow Richard can leave the island through the temple.
My terrible prediction for tonight:
We find out that Miles is related to Dr Chang some how.....
Pharmer, it may be a bigger deal than you think! But I have to disagree. Ben definitely told TOM to retrieve the man from tallahassee. Now whether Tom did it or got Richard to do it is a different story! lol And traveling through the TEMPLE is an interesting idea, since we have absolutely know idea about the Temple except that only the OTHERS can go to it...and Richard said that leaving the island is "priveleged information" So not a bad thought!
Anonyous - not the worst prediction in the world! I think we have all been working under the assumption that that baby we saw in the season premiere is probably Miles. Some late entries have pointed to SUN, but I disagree with those. Clearly, Miles has been on the island before his current stint there (even though he didn't know about it). So, I would hope tonight would help solidify that!
This may have already been discussed...any idea why Widmore got banished instead of judged by Smokey? Put another way, who decided to ship him out instead of getting judged?
Alex, Yemmi, Christian and.... LOCKE! are all the monster....Jhon left the scene and the monster showed up... the the monster left and locked appeared. How did he "know" where the monster was? he is the monster. He is Dead as the ones mentioned before.
Sorry I did not read all the comments and now I see some people already posted what I said... so I support that theory! Cheers.
Pharmer, I doubt you'll ever read this blog post again but I stand corrected!! I am doing my LOST rewatch and now see that Ben definitely asked RICHARD to fetch the "man from tallahasee". Ouch, may be one of my biggest LOST blunders ever. I'm going back and fixing it in all of my blog posts! lol Sorry for doubting you!
man you get a lot of comments.
Enjoying reading your blog - keep it up.
Thought I'd just pop my head in with this one, [quote]The smoke eventually subsides and Ben's torch all of a sudden lights back up. What is THAT all about?[/quote]
Probably just the continued allusion to bad vs good, light vs dark and perhpas stretching it more, that they cannot co-exist.
Light goes out when black smoke came, black smoke leaves light magaically illuminates.
I always just remember the whole scene right at the start with Locke holding up the black and the white chips froma backgoammon game.
Yay! My request was finally satisfied-we finally got to see where that cave in Ben's closet leads-to a sort of smoke monster toilet that needed to be flushed - LOL! Dead is dead, except if you come back to the island in a coffin with another person's shoes...? Locke seems pretty alive to everyone, including himself. Awesome episode! So, one question I had was - at the Temple, is this hole that they go underground in something that Ben didn't ever know about? He didn't seem to.
When Ben said "Tell Desmond I'm sorry" I just knew he didn't kill Penny - it would be too obvious - so happy that was correct! Awesome scene - Ben getting beat up is always a good time! And yay for little Charlie!
The Smokey scene was great - very cool. I kind of like the theory that the smoke monster can manifest as a dead person - aka Alex in this case - LOVED when she throttled Ben!
Awesome episode and blog - so Mike to answer your question, LostFamily is on a hiatus while LostDaughter is at camp for two weeks and then LostFamily is on vacation for two weeks. So, when we're all back on August 7th we have five one-hour episodes to parse out until we find the SEASON 6 DVD on our doorstep on August 24th. That's the plan anyway. Thanks for replying to our posts - it's always great to hear from you and of course to read your recaps. Like you said, still so many questions even though we've been given a lot of info this season so far. Until August 7th...
"So, what lies in the shadow of the statue? Um I dunno, maybe the 5th toe?"
HAHA, what a great opening line to the recap, Mike! Once again, I thoroughly enjoyed the episode and have re-entered a phase where I don't ask too many questions and just let the reveals wash all over me and just look forward to learning more. Even though I'm still wrong on about 90% of my guesses on the mythology and wrong about summarizing half of what I JUST SAW, the show still makes perfect sense to me in this season and I'm happy just to be along for the ride.
Yeah, I knew that was Widmore the moment I saw him get off the horse. His role on the island was one of my rare good guesses and I've kinda been waiting for him to assume day-to-day leadership of the Hostiles. By the time he was banished from the island at the end of the show, I felt vindicated with my predictions of his role and how Ben usurped him. But I'm sure we'll spend more time with Widmore on the island in the future where I'll learn all sorts of new insights. Like I still don't know what the true motivation is for Charles wanting the island back in his control.
And I still don't have a clue about Jacob, except Locke heard him say "Help me" and caught a glimpse of him, and that Christian communicated on his behalf. So far, it seems like Jacob is the closest thing to an island God that there is and everyone (even Ben and Charles) bends to his will. But we've kind of known that forever yet there's still no more details on the mysterious Jacob.
Of course I cheered when Desmond tackled Ben on the pier and beat the crap out of him. Long live Desmond and Penny! (or at least die together!)
Yeah, I think Ilana and her band of survivors will end up causing quite a ruckus. They're much more actively aggressive than our original band of survivors!
Mike, it's interesting how you point out certain continuity errors or other slip-ups the show made, like when they inferred that Lapidus and Locke had met before when they never had. You've done this quite a few times and I always enjoy when you point them out, cuz I miss them sometimes. Does LOSTpedia have a page that lists all these types of errors? (I've barely gone there and looked at anything since I'm afraid of spoilers.) It just goes to show that even the best written shows can't remember every little detail.
I also saw in one of your comments that you were going to write a blog entirely about LOSTpedia? Did you? I certainly hope to hear your views on it (if not now, after I finish "The End").
So is Locke any more alive than Christian? It sure seems that way, as Mike pointed out that Alex screamed at Ben, "I know you're planning to kill him again!" which is kind of proof that Locke is really alive. Or he's become the new Jacob. Or Christian has actually returned from the dead as well. Dead is dead?
Ben is a liar: The best kind of liar is one who tells the truth more often than not. The best kind of lie is one you tell yourself often enough that you come to believe it yourself. That's how I convinced myself that while the show is confusing I am not feeling confused!
Man did I love the judgment scene between the smoke monster and Ben. The smoke monster's "home base" was really cool and certainly led me to believe it had been there a very long time. I wonder how many others will eventually be forced to stand in judgment with the island's supreme magistrate?
LOL forgot about my "great" (sarcasm) humor I added to these recaps. :-) I've read all your comments I'm about to respond to and I'm glad you're feeling the same way about season 5 as I did. Just great television and definitely a great focus on what they were trying to accomplish. You could tell LOST was a well oiled machine at this point, and ironically it was right before the end. lol
Lots more to come in the Jacob department. And you know what, some of the stuff you're still speculating about I really didn't figure out fully until after the fact. Just had to process it all and have some commenters fill in some details I may have overlooked the first time.
The LOSTpedia blog entry you're referring to....I don't think I ever said that. What you may have read (in a "when lost was done" comment on these older posts) that I was planning to dissect the LOST Encyclopedia that was released after LOST ended. It's an actual book and not affiliated with the fan site LOSTpedia. I did actually do that. On the 1 year anniversary of the end of LOST, I posted my reflection on the show and some of the mysteries I thought weren't clear at face value. I had fun writing that post up and I'll be interested to get your take on the show once you're done too. Of course, I also rewatched the show last summer (a few of us did) and we commented about our progress on the TV Addicts Blog in the Summer 2012 posts. It was a fun time, but not sure how easy it is to follow for people reading now. Anyway, it was all great discussion taking the whole series and providing our fresh perspective on the show.
No comment on the smoke monster. :-)
Whew, what an episode! Once again we're reminded that things can be confusing as hell in Lost-land even without time travel.
God, I loved Locke in this. That wonderful smirk of his was there for the entire episode! For once he's not believing a word Ben says. But, if "Dead is dead"... how are we supposed to feel about Locke? I'm still reluctant to think he's really resurrected.
I was worried for a while there that Ben was really going to kill Penny. Thankfully, little Charlie showed up at the right moment!
I'm not going to even comment on the rest of the craziness. I just hope Smokey is explained really well in the end!
There is just too much spoiler bait in your comments for me to possibly even comment! lol I would say that the "MAJOR" mysteries of LOST will all be touched on before the end. Some little nitpicky stuff that people found along the way might be eternally up for discussion. (Which I'm always happy to do!) But if you consider SMOKEY a "major" mystery of LOST, well then....that is all I can say!
You're raising a lot of the same questions we all raised when we watched for the first time.
Ahhhh, I loved season 5!
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