Anyway, I'm getting ahead of myself (what else is new?). Overall, tonight was still a solid episode of LOST. (WOW!!!, by the way!) This episode was a Kate centric story and she was a major factor on the Island and off. The plot keeps moving ahead on the Island (in the past of course). We also got some key flashback scenes with Kate that answered all of the questions we have had about her since she told Jack in season 4 that she made a promise to Sawyer. And we continued to see a whole new side of Jack Shephard with his rebirth on the Island. Oh yeah, and Hurley and Miles discuss Back to the Future and all things Time Travel! Let's dive in and see if there's anything worth discussing. (DUH....it is LOST after all!)
Kate's Flashbacks
(2005-2007)
(2005-2007)
Kate and Cassidy Meet Again
I think we all knew when Kate was on that phone with someone in the season 4 episode "Something Nice Back Home" (a Jack Flash Forward episode) that she was talking to Cassidy, Sawyer's daughter's mother and also someone who crossed paths with Kate who helped her out when she was on the run from the law. We knew that Sawyer whispered something to Kate before he jumped out of the helicopter in the season 4 finale (which we all surmised was that he had a daughter and asked Kate to find her). So, this episode really just paid it all off finally.
- Kate is listening to Patsy Cline's "She's Got You". (revised)This isn't the first time we have heard Kate listening to Patsy. The tie as always been that Patsy died in a plane crash. And plane crashes just seem to keep happening on LOST!
- Kate sings "Catch a Falling Star" to Aaron. There have been several references to this song when it comes to Aaron. Claire asked potential adopting parents in season 1's "Raised by Another" if they would sing the song to Aaron. Also, the nursery that was built for Aaron by the Others on the Island had one of those MOBILE (is that what you call those things that spin above a crib?) that played the tune also, indicating that they had that knowledge that Claire wanted Aaron to hear that song.
- So, here's a question. I think we all thought that Sawyer whispered to Kate that his daughter was in Albuquerque, New Mexico. Well it sure looks like Cassidy and Kid lived right there in Los Angeles. Convenient isn't it? Oh well, I'm not going to get overly critical since we can't actually hear that in the whisper. But what are the odds that she would be living in L.A.? I guess there are no coincidences on LOST, just convenient writing!
- To sum up this conversation, Cassidy was excited to see Kate. Kate ends up telling her the truth but still lies about Aaron and says she is the mother. She says she lies because she has to. Eventually, we find out that Kate was afraid that someone would take Aaron away from her because SHE needed him. Okay, whatever! Cassidy informs Kate that Sawyer left Kate just like he left her. He got scared about what would happen to him if they got rescued and he jumped. Seems to be true based on the conversation Kate and Sawyer later have.
- Kate tried to offer some of her Oceanic settlement money to Cassidy and tried to prove that Sawyer cared for the child.
- Not sure if she took the money but I think the bottom line here is that we see a bond has formed between the 2. Kate has someone she can tell the truth to off of the Island besides her Oceanic buddies, and it is her closest link to Sawyer.
What Kate Did after Oceanic 6 (minus Hurley) reunion
After Kate stormed off and drove away from the docks on that oh so important night, that crazy kid she was raising got thirsty for some milk. So they went to a grocery store.
- Aaron changes his mind and wants a juice box instead. Jack calls Kate, she looks at phone, closes phone then looks up and Aaron is gone. Yikes! No fear, he didn't vanish into thin air. Just found a lady that looks just like Claire (from behind) and was walking out the store with her. Hmmm interesting. Apparently, this is a wake up call for Kate.
- The next morning (this would be coinciding when Jack is hanging out with Grandpa Ray) Kate returns to visit Cassidy and update her on the latest situation. They want to go back to the Island! Cassidy says Jack has a screw loose. At this point in time, we finally meet Clementine who calls Kate, "Auntie Kate." Clearly, these visits have become very regular. This would seem to confirm that phone call that Kate had when Jack walked in last season was between her and Cassidy.
- Kate goes on about how she lost Aaron in the grocery store and how she has always felt like she was going to lose him. Cassidy, the voice of reason yet again, explains to Kate that it's because Aaron is not hers (so Kate did eventually explain EVERYTHING to Cassidy). Sawyer broke Kates heart and she used Aaron to fix it.
- Anyway, this motivates Kate to go see Claire's mother who is still staying at the motel where Jack and Kate were the day before. Kate explains everything to Mrs. Littleton. How they lied, how Aaron is her grandson, how Claire is still alive (hmmm can we accept that as confirmation even though Kate doesn't exactly know what happened to her?), and how she lied because she needed Aaron. She wanted to keep him safe, to protect him. I actually wondered why Kate didn't bring up the fact that Jack and Claire are related, but I just remembered, Mrs. Littleton revealed that little nugget TO Jack! Duh...
- Bottom line, anyone who guessed that Kate left Aaron with Mrs. Littleton...you guessed correctly! That really did seem like the best possibility. Good job! Here's the kicker though, why on earth did none of us guess the simplest reason for what motivated Kate to go back to the Island? I figured it out in the middle of THIS episode. All of the clues were there even when Ben said a few episodes back "He's not your son Kate." It was so simple! Kate is going back to get Claire and bring her back! DUH MIKE!!!! I can figure out how Time Travel works on this show, but I can't figure out THAT?! yikes.
- So are you guys thinking like I'm thinking? Desmond had a vision of an unspecified point in time in the future. He knew Charlie had to die by drowning to make this vision come true. He saw Claire and a baby (he assumed to be Aaron) get on a helicopter and leave the Island. We had all ruled this out by now as a false vision because Aaron is grown up and well...not even on the Island! What if this vision is still yet to happen? What if the baby is someone who hasn't been born yet? What if whatever our LOSTIES are doing on the Island restores the ability to reproduce on the Island? Or even simpler....what if it's Kate and Jack's child? (pending Kate is pregnant from their one night stand after losing Aaron). Hmmm, and why wouldn't Desmond see KATE getting on that helicopter with her son/daughter? It's far fetched at this point, but it would be a pretty cool way to tie it all together!
- Anyway, back to the story...Kate says her goodbyes to Aaron, is an emotional wreck, and we can assume heads right over to Jack's apartment and gets ready for that one night stand! And now kids, we know why Kate has returned to the Island.
The Island
(1977)
After the Shooting
The story resumes right where it left off. Jin is on the ground by Ben. He is awoken by his walkie and brings Ben, still alive, back to DHARMAVILLE. Horace and DHARMA crew are dealing with the fallout from the firey DHARMA VAN and the breakout of the HOSTILE (Sayid). Horace meets Jack and Kate in suspicious situations. Kate and Roger Linus form a bond. Drama ensues over saving Ben
- Jack inserts himself into the situation and asks how Sayid could have set the building on fire if he was locked up. Horace suspects someone within DHARMA has helped Sayid escape as Security did not pick up any Hostile activity in the area.
- Roger asks for Kate's help in pulling the remains of the burned DHARMA van away from the building. She has no idea what she is doing. They bond over the fact that they were just given assignments with no say. (We saw Roger get his "Workman" assignment in Season 3's "The Man Behind the Curtain") And once Kate finds out it's Ben's father we get the line becoming a classic for our LOSTIES meeting key people in the past "It's Nice to Meet You."
- Kate goes running into the Security station to talk to Sawyer about Ben getting shot. Sawyer flips out and says she can't be there. Horace comes in and sees Kate and wonders why she is in there. Sawyer covers for her.
- Sawyer, Miles, Jin and Horace scope out the cell and notice there are janitor keys in the door. They narrow it down to 3 janitors. Roger, Jack and Random Guy Willie.
- Sawyer tells Miles to round up Jack, Kate and Hurley and lock them down in a house. Things are getting messy and they are just going to mess things up!
- Sawyer goes to infirmary where Juliet is working on Ben. He runs into Roger who is a mess. (I guess he really does care) Sawyer does some pretty classic investigation work by subtley asking for Roger's keys. He doesn't have them, and Sawyer immediately identifies the culprit as Ben himself.
- Juliet informs Sawyer that the Doc is at the Looking Glass until Friday. She is working on the patient. I guess at this point Juliet is accepted as being a doctor since she delivered Amy's baby? Anyway, Juliet says Ben is not doing well and that she needs a real surgeon. Well who didn't see that coming?! Sawyer knows what he has to do and heads after Jack.
- To be continued.....let's pause for some Time Travel talk!
Hurley and Miles get their Geek on! (Time Travel on LOST 101)
So over 2 scenes, Miles and Hurley go over the 2 very popular theories on Time Travel that have been flooding discussions across the nation. Some may have felt this was heavy handed, and I even felt my eyes rolling at one point like...are they seriously still talking about this!? But, I think they were anticipating lots of questions on this and they wanted to certifiably inform people how TIME TRAVEL works on LOST. People may not be happy with it, but hey, we still have 6 more episodes to go this season that will hopefully explain exactly why we are in the past witnessing the inevitable. And surprisingly, Hurley and Miles have some good chemistry to make this happen.
- We open up with Hurley focusing on his hand waiting for it to disappear. This is an homage to Back to the Future. In the movie, they take Time Travel to a whole other level as when you travel to the past you CAN change things. And Marty McFly went to the past and almost ruined his parents from ever meeting which made him start to vanish himself. Thankfully he fixed it and altered the future to a better future for him! (well, that is until Back to the Future II came and ruined it all!) I've had several discussions with people who were convinced that this is what was happening on LOST, despite my best efforts to explain the "Whatever Happened, Happened" concept. So you gotta love when we have HURLEY once again be the guy that speaks the minds of the fans. (kinda like when Hurley and Dave had the discussion that the Island was ALL in Hurley's imagination. That he was dreaming it and all he had to do was wake up. That was a theory going around too.) LOST likes to dismiss theories by addressing them very directly on the show. And, as I've stated before, they use Hurley as their vessel to do this!
- Miles brings up what I have been focusing on the blog for a couple weeks now. Whatever happened has ALWAYS happened. Sayid shot Ben, which means he ALWAYS has shot Ben. The key is that our LOSTIES are experiencing this for the first time, so even though they have knowledge of how things turn out, they don't know the events that take place to make them happen so they can't change it. (And we have to wonder if this is the reason for why other things have happened to our LOSTIES like Michael couldn't kill himself, Jack couldn't kill himself, Locke couldn't die when shot by Ben, people survived the flight 815 crash....was this because they HAD to survive to fulfill certain events that already have taken place on the Island (or were going to take place in the future))? I keep bringing that up, but it never gets old!
- Hurley puts the theory to the test asking about their current conversation. If it has already happened, what am I going to say next? ba dum CHING! Clearly, the conversation didn't happen for them yet so they are experiencing it for the first time.
- Hurley then asks if it has already happened to him, then why doesn't he remember it. Ugh....this is the question that kept coming up in comments when I talked to people. I never could grasp it. Why would they remember it? It's still the PRESENT for the LOSTIES. Miles goes onto explain that when Ben turned the wheel that time is not a straight line for them anymore. Their experiences in the past and the future have already happened but not THIS moment right now.
(anyone thinking of Spaceballs? "This is now. Whatever happens now is happening right now! What happened to then? You missed it! When? Just now. When will then be now? SOON! ahhhhh good times! Gotta love Mel Brooks comedies!) - Miles then moves to the next level and gives Hurley his gun and tells him to shoot him. Hurely then explains how he cannot shoot Miles because then he'll never come to the Island on the freighter 30 years from now.....UGH UGH!!! Again, people getting tripped up by this one too. Miles tries to nail home once again that YES, he can die because he has already come to the Island. I think this is trying to clarify that there ARE indeed Life and Death stakes on the Island for these LOSTIES even though the future is already written. THEIR future is not written because we don't know when and how they die. For all we know it could have been 1977. And I'm guessing those ADAM AND EVE skeletons will still play some kind of role with this trip back to 1977. And I'm getting more and more scared that it is Rose and Bernard because SERIOUSLY....where/when on Earth (or the Island) are they????
- So Hurley thinks he gets it now, but then comes up with the head-scratcher. If Ben grows up to become the Leader of the Others....then why doesn't he remember Sayid when he was being tortured in 2004 by him? This gets clumsily explained later (seems convenient, and I'll say for now that we haven't seen the whole show yet so let's give them a chance to explain better!). But here's my thing....why would it matter if Ben did remember? He was lying about everything at the time (being Henry Gale). He is a GOOD liar. Who is to say he couldn't pull off not recognizing Sayid? If he was gathering intel on these people since he became one of the OTHERS then he would have known going in there he would be interrogated by Sayid. But oh well....that's not the way they are going to play this for now. Interesting. But we will get into the explanation for this one a few sections down.
- Sidenote: Based on Miles explaining all of this, we can assume that Daniel is the one that took the time to explain it all to him. And this probably means that Daniel told Charlotte to leave the Island and never come back exactly as Charlotte remembered it years later. But I'm guessing there is going to be a Daniel-centric episode this season that will explain where he has been!
- The Hurley/Miles discussion continues off screen even further and becomes just a comedy bit later when Miles tells Hurley to tell him more Time Travel theories. Ahh good times.
Everyone thoroughly confused? Do you get it better now? Are you mad at the creative direction of the show? Well, either way I'm continuing with the rest of the recap now!
Jack's Refusal
When we last left Sawyer, he was heading to the Lockdown House to recruit Jack for surgery. What we found though is a NEW Jack who is not so determined to fix things.
When we last left Sawyer, he was heading to the Lockdown House to recruit Jack for surgery. What we found though is a NEW Jack who is not so determined to fix things.
- Jack, coming off of Miles's initial "Whatever Happened, Happened" lecture seems to believe it at face value. Also, new for Jack to just believe this crazy stuff on the Island is actually happening without some hesitation.
- Sawyer tells Jack that they need him to come with. Ben has sprung a leak and is losing a lot of blood and need him to fix it. Jack's response? Quite simply - NO. Ouch Sawyer, maybe you should've been a TAD nicer when he offered his services to help with Sayid!
- Sawyer is shocked by Jack's refusal and says that the kid will die if he doesn't come with. Jack's response? "Then he dies"
- Kate takes the argument one step further after Sawyer leaves. "You can't just let a boy die!" Jack says that they can't change what has already happened and that it has nothing to do with him. He goes on to say that he has already fixed Ben once 30 years from now (really 27 Jack!) and that he did it for Kate. Remember season 3 when Jack was locked in the Shark tank and was asked to perform surgery on Ben's spine? Kate, then added pressure by asking him to do it to save Sawyer. He did it for Kate, he doesn't need to do it again.
- Kate tries another angle. It's their fault, they brought Sayid back and caused Ben to get shot. Jack retorts that the last time on the Island he spent all of his time trying to fix things (don't we know it Jack!). Jack starts speaking like Locke and saying that maybe the Island wants to fix things itself and he was getting in the way.
- Kate says she doesn't like the new Jack who is just going to sit around and wait for things to happen. Ahhhh but Jack says Kate did NOT like the old him! BURRRRRN!!!!!!
- Kate runs out of the building and to the infirmary. We'll get to that story in a second.
- Juliet, after putting Kate on a secret mission (again, next section), heads to talk to Jack and is quite upset with the man for not coming to help with Ben. She comes in and kicks Miles and Hurley out of the house and heads into the bathroom where Jack is showering. They do love having Jack feel awkward coming out of the shower. It happened in season 2 when Locke decided it was the best time to shave.
- Juliet says how she needed Jack. He was a surgeon and the kid was bleeding. Jack says that the kid is Ben. Juliet says that it's not Ben yet, just a kid. Juliet informs Jack that Kate is trying to save Ben now and Sawyer is helping. She is not asking for Jack's help. All she wants to know is why he came back.
- Jack says he came back because he cared and that he was trying to save them. Juliet gets all emotional and says they didn't need saving, they were doing fine for 3 years. She wants Jack to tell her the real reason he came back. He came back for himself and she wants to know.
- Jack, again sounding like Locke, says that he came back because he was supposed to come back. But he does not know why yet. Juliet tells him he better figure it out soon.
- Yikes, did I just read back the script to you? It all just seemed important. Ben is not Ben yet, Juliet venting about how her life was great and they came back and ruined a good thing. Jack talking about his destiny. Well, I guess I could have just summed it up like that! So what do we think Jack's destiny is? He can't stay all laid back forever! Does he need a visit from Daddy to set him straight? Or perhaps he needs to meet up with a ressurected John Locke? That is kind of difficult right now! Oh well, time will tell.
Operation Save Ben
Kate runs into the infirmary to offer her assistance to Juliet.
Kate runs into the infirmary to offer her assistance to Juliet.
- Kate offers her blood as it is revealed that she is a Universal donor. Really? Well why on earth did she not reveal that in Season 1 when Boone was losing blood and Jack had to give his own? Ohhhhh right. She was helping Claire deliver the baby. Duh!
- Kate and Juliet gossip about Jack for a bit. Kate explains that they were engaged at one point when Juliet asked if anything happened with them off Island. Hmmm how did Juliet take that news? About as well as Kate took the news that Sawyer was with Juliet? Yikes!
- Oh well, Roger Workman comes in to ruin the fun. He is still an emotional wreck over his son. Kate says Roger can keep him company while Juliet tends to Ben.
- Roger admits Ben stole his keys. He said LaFleur saw right through him. Roger knows that Ben broke Sayid out. He knows that it is his fault because he has been a bad father. He always thought he would be a great father. But it turns out that a boy needs his mother (who died during Childbirth, but whom Ben has seen visions of on the Island outside of the DHARMA fence).
- Roger asks Kate if she has kids. She doesn't keep the lie up anymore and says no.
- Ben goes into shock which gets them all worried. Juliet sends Roger to the medical station for supplies. But Juliet tells Kate that she cannot fix it.
- We find out the sub is gone and won't be back for a couple of months. Interesting. She explains how Ben IS going to die. He is in an unresolveable medical situation.
- Then Juliet has a brainstorm. There are people that can help. Them crazy OTHERS!! And thus, we see crazy fate rearing its ugly head.
- They load Ben in a DHARMA van. Kate convinces Juliet that she needs to go alone. Juliet needs to keep her cover. Juliet says she has to explain to Sawyer what went down but will give her a head start.
- Kate heads to the SONIC FENCE in the van and then stops. Ben tells Kate to tell his dad that he's sorry for taking the keys. Ahhh probably the last of nice boy Ben that we will ever hear! In fact, of the LOSTIES never were involved in Ben's past, he may have eventually made ammends with his father. You see, to me, that makes this season interesting even if we already know how things end up in the future. We are still learning of key decisions made by our LOSTIES that affected the past and sets up their own PAST on the Island in the future! (did I lose you?) Something tells me there are even bigger events coming up in the remaining episodes of this season that our LOSTIES will be significantly involved in. And I can't wait to find out!
- Sidenote: We better get some information on that DHARMA Food Drop soon! If it doesn't happen this season, I don't know when it will!
Kate and Sawyer Catch Up
- Sawyer approaches in another van and says he came to help Kate. It's not like she knows how to find the crazy Others!
- SKATER Alert - Sawyer calls Kate Freckles again. awwwwwww
- Kate asks Sawyer why he is helping. Sawyer asked the same question to Juliet, why is Kate helping Ben? Juliet told him no matter what he is going to grow up to be, it is wrong to let a kid die. Sawyer says he is doing it for Juliet. bigger awwwwwwwwww!
- Kate and Sawyer wander through the jungle with Ben. They discuss Sawyer thinking Ben broke Sayid out. Sawyer says a kid will do almost anything if he's p.o.'d at his parents. Something tells me we aren't going to see Sawyer as a kid doing something crazy to his parents. But this was more as a segueway to talk about Clementine.
- Kate informs Sawyer that she did find Clementine and help take care of her. Sawyer looked genuinely concerned and interested to find out about his daughter. Kate says she is beautiful and looks like Sawyer when she smiles.
- Sawyer knew that she and Cassidy would have lots to discuss. She explains Cassidy's theory on Sawyer jumping out of the chopper. To which Sawyer explains it never would have worked out between him and Kate. He wasn't fit to be her boyfriend and wasn't fit to be Clementine's father. But he has done lots of growing up over the past few years which is seen in his relationship to Juliet.
The Inevitable Happens
Kate and Sawyer are interrupted by The Others and a bunch of rifles.
- Random OTHER Guy that we may can learn more about says that they are in violation of the truce. Sawyer says that they know. The kid has been shot and it is both of their problems. And to avoid a war they need to be taken to Richard Alpert STAT!
- As they are walking through the jungle, Richard just appears out of nowhere. "you asked my people to bring me to you, here I am." Hmmm, something tells me we are supposed to be asking about this. He just APPEARS when summoned? Who/What IS this guy?
- Richard asks if the boy is Benjamen Linus. Sawyer is confused that Richard knows who he is. (last time Richard and Ben met, Richard was a little more hippie like and told Ben to be patient. I guess this is the moment we were waiting for!)
- Kate and Richard are introduced. She explains they need Richard to save Ben's life.
- Richard hesitates and then tells them if he takes Ben that he will never be the same again. He will forget this ever happened and his innocence will be gone. And Ben will forever be "one of them". Oh boy.....feel the collective eyes roll around the world! So Ben is simply going to forget that he was shot by Sayid? Convenient! Although I am left intrigued. We have always thought that some of The Others seemed to be brainwashed in one way or another. Remember how evil ETHAN was in season 1? And how seemingly invincible he was when he fought Jack? Perhaps this is getting to this answer. I'll have more on this in a few bullets.
- The bigger deal seems to be that Kate agrees to Richard's disclaimer. This is, as I mentioned above, showing that if the LOSTIES were never in the 70's Ben may have grown up to be a normal boy, the purge may never have happened and babies may have flourished on the Island for all we know! Kind of the same thing with Locke. If he had never gone back to the 50's and told Richard about himself, Locke may have never been a CHOSEN one for the Island. This season of LOST is showing how intermingled our LOSTIES are with the history of the Island. And it is kinda crazy! Does it all serve a higher purpose? I would be inclined to think so. We just don't know what yet!
- Random Other Guy tells Richard that he shouldn't do this without asking Ellie (or we assume to be Eloise Hawking). It is also mentioned that Charles Widmore may find out. Yes, in case you forgot, Charles Widmore told Locke that he was leading The Others at this time. And this is the first mention we get of him in the 70's. It seems like both he AND Ellie are on the Island at this point. And if it's 1977, and Ellie is Eloise, one would tend to think that Daniel Faraday is also on the Island as a child. Hmmmm, so why didn't he get the nosebleed during the flashing?!
- Anyway, Richard tells Random Other Guy to let Charles find out and that he does not answer to either him or Ellie. Hmmm, so where does Ellie rank on the chain of command? And who DOES Richard answer to?
- Richard takes Ben and brings him to the Temple gates. Yes, the very same Temple referenced since season 3, but first seen this season with Rousseau and crew.
- We see Richard take Ben through some secret door and that is the last we see of him in the past. Something tells me this sets up quite nicely to a Ben-centric episode where we might get to catch up with present day Ben and see flashbacks for where Richard takes him beyond that wall. Of course, I can only speculate!
- So, remember in the episode "This Place is Death" earlier this season when Rousseau's crew began to tell a bunch of lies after being infected by the Smoke monster at the Temple? Do we think this has any tie to Ben's ability to constantly lie and the fact that Richard says he will never be the same? I guess time will tell!
The Island - Hydra Style
(2007)
(2007)
We see adult Ben sleeping on his bed after being smacked in the head by Sun. John Locke is sitting beside the bed just waiting for him to wake up. He does and alarmingly sees the man he murdered staring at him. "Hello Ben. Welcome back to the land of the living!" and then we get the greatest smirk you will ever see from John Locke.
BOOM LOST!!!
Finally, we saw 2007 again on the Island! Of course, only for a few seconds. But something tells me this is setting up a future episode. And since I have promised to not discuss previews for next week, all I will suggest is, watch the previews for next week! It looks to be a great one! But we definitely got another solid outing from the LOST crew. Some minor annoyances that we dissected above. But hopefully, they will get resolved in future episodes!
5 weeks worth of episodes to go for Season 5 (6 hours of new material). We're getting into the final stretch. Every episode that airs will make us sadder and sadder as we realize we are approaching the end of a great show next year! But there is plenty of stuff we need to find out before we see what happens in the last episode of LOST! And I intend to be blogging us every step of the way! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always, see you next week and NAMASTE!
5 weeks worth of episodes to go for Season 5 (6 hours of new material). We're getting into the final stretch. Every episode that airs will make us sadder and sadder as we realize we are approaching the end of a great show next year! But there is plenty of stuff we need to find out before we see what happens in the last episode of LOST! And I intend to be blogging us every step of the way! Hope you enjoyed my ramblings as always, see you next week and NAMASTE!
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Special thanks as always to Sledgeweb for providing awesome screen shots on their site.
107 comments:
Mike, great job as usual! The Patsy Cline song is actually "She's Got You".
Thanks! I'll fix it. Although when I googled it, the title of the song came up as I mentioned. Oh well, not being a hardcore Patsy Cline listener, I'll take your word for it! lol
Maybe we misheard what Richard said to Ben in the jungle that time...maybe he actually said "Be A patient!" :P Thus, the next time they see each other, Ben is a patient, who has been shot! Is it concievible that Ol'Smokey will be the one to heal Ben and subsequently, shape him into the man he is..An Other? Most of you are probably thinking, Well duh! Do you think maybe that is where the healing properties come from on the island, how people seem to mend so quickly..or regain the ability to walk? Something to do with Smokey Robinson!
Hey Mike - I think Team Darlton reads your blog and our comments. Cause their having Miles call Hurley 'Dingbat' - well that was aimed directly at MY posts. LOL. Good times.
That whole scene was just awesome. Love it when we get our 'truths' from Hurley.
The crazy thing is...this episode had to have been written back in December/January'ish timeframe. So they must've just known what people were going to discuss based on time travel episodes they've had in the past. Absolutely crazy! lol
But it would be cool if they read the blog. If they did, I'd appreciate a name drop on their podcast! lol
Hey Mike,
I read this on another blog and it make a key point about the irony of time travel as it relates to
Jack and the unsuspecting affect he has on the future...especially the good folks at Dharmaville:
Jack essentially creates the man he hates by refusing to do the surgery...Ben always went into the temple with Richard, lost his innocence, and became a Hostile.
If Jack had done the damn surgery, the show would be over...
and the good Dharma people may have all survived because there would/may not have been a purge.
Kinda surprised you failed to mention this, seeing how thorough you tend to be...but this was really the key ironic twist to last night episode.
No worries, your blog is still my first choice for all things Lost.
Hey Mike,
GREAT recap as usual!! I agree, if this was written in dec/jan-ish and for the writers to know how we would all be discussing time travel is truly amazing! I loved Hurley and Miles' convo.... It really was like the producers read every blog site and said here u go! Awesome, but now we're at Whatever Happened, happened.... which okay fine they can't really change things.... but then what is their purpose???
Ok was it just me or was Richard actually creepy when he was saying those things to Kate and Sawyer? I mean.... Ben looses his innocence? Ok so to be saved or like healed with island properties - you then belong to the Island but with no innocence? With no morals? I mean thats kinda messed up!! Here I wanted to believe the Island was good and that there was some "higher purpose" - but yet being healed - or like not die when ur REALLY supposed to, you become evil somehow??!?!?!?
I'm still confused...... anywho, I did like that we learned more bout Kate, I was really starting to hate her and think she's sooo selfish n etc - but she really just had a broken heart :(
Anyways thanks again Mike,
Mona
Scratch the "what's their purpose" line..... I mean we all know their purpose is to create the basis for the future events... so sorry I didn't read it before I posted.
I just meant like what is Jack's purpose then??? u know...
hmmmm things to ponder.......
but I really just don't like how u lose ur morals like that for being healed???? I don't get it.
Mona
Well, I kinda did mention it Alby...just not exactly like that. I talked about the irony of the LOSTIES being in the past and creating the man that causes them so many problems. I just didn't single out Jack by accident. I thought of it though! lol
It's tough to be as thorough as I am already when I barely have time to process the episode before I start writing about it!
But I'll accept your compliment. Thanks! lol
Enjoyed the re-cap as always. What a great night of tv. Lost was fab as always, and I also happened to be a Life on Mars fan and they had a stallar series finale last night !
Not liking accepting Juliette as a medical professional so blithely. They DO have a communication station that should have been calling Looking Glass to have the doc return stat.
Seems to me that they had already established that Saywer was happy to stay on the island before he jumped off that chopper. Remember when he was living in Dharmaville and playing house with Kate? He tried to tell her that she should not be so interested in going back to the world.
How about this one ? Maybe Des's vision was seeing Claire get on the chopper with HIS own son Charlie !!! Obviously we don't yet know the fate of Des and Pen, adn Des would have to come to the island with his kid, probably to help rescue the losties or exact revenge on Ben - but how cool would that be.
'Do you get it better now? Are you mad at the creative direction of the show?' I always got it, but just think there is more to it than is being let on. Agree that we can assume that Miles was just sharing with Hurley all that Daniel taught him. But we still don't know if Daniel knows everything accurately.
But love the direction the show is going.
MJ, i agree that there is still more to unfold with the time travel, in particular WHY they are there. And why DESMOND was able to change things (even if they got course corrected eventually).
Only flaw with DES's son getting on the chopper is that he is not an infant anymore. We were led to believe Claire got on the chopper with a baby. But maybe that's just my assumption! lol
As for the DOC leaving the looking glass...how do they transport the DOC back up without the sub I wonder? And the fact that the sub wasn't going to be back for 2 months and the doc was coming back to the barracks on Friday sorta puzzles me! I wonder if they fact-checked their dates on that one! Otherwise, I would have said that they probably couldn't get the DOC because the SUB wasn't there. Not everyone can hold their breath as long as Charlie, Desmond and Mikhail! lol
Mona, agree on the purpose...jack's purpose...everyone's purpose...we need to find out what's going on there and I have no doubt that this will be addressed!
I am new to this blogg so what I am asking may have been answered already but here goes any way. What year is Sun, John and Ben in after the plane crash. It does not seem that they are in the 70’s like the other Losties. Also, is Ben lying in bed knocked out because Sun hit him on the head or is it because he was shot in the past and on deaths bed causing him to feel the effects in present time? This goes along with Hurley waiting to vanish. Just a thought on my part…
Mike,
Great Blog as always!
As far as the doc in the looking glass getting back on Friday... They have scuba gear on the looking glass. Remember the Looking Glass episode where Des was hiding in the locker with the scuba gear and harpoons?!?!
Greg- They are in 2007, and as far as we can tell it Ben is knocked out because Sun hit him.
Maybe Ben "sells his soul to the devil" sort of speak and thats why he becomes the way he is.
Greg, I agree with anonymous. It is 2007. Based on "30 years earlier and later" mentionings in previous episodes we can conclude this. As for Hurley waiting to vanish...that was meant to be a joke to indicate that this is DEFINITELY not what we should be expecting to happen. So I think Ben waking up in the future when young ben was taken into the temple was just a coincidence to the way the episode was edited together.
Weasel..good call on the scuba gear. I forgot about that! I still want to know why they had that Sub docking station there and if it has something to do with transporting to and from the ISLAND.
I agree with the theme of Ben "selling his soul." Only thing is...it would seem that people sold his soul FOR him to save him. Very strange!
Thanks for the compliments everyone!
To add to what Alby said about the irony in Jack's refusal to operate, what about the irony in Sayid shooting Ben?! His attempt to rid the world of evil Ben is what actually brought him forth. Love this show!!!
Once again, great blog. I don't think that you ramble too much and I love all of the details, they really help me remember what happened.
Just a quick question, any1 else think it was a bit ridiculous that the janitors are the ones with the keys that hold the prisoners(aka the hostiles). Im not too impressed with the dharma on this one!
What if the baby is not Charlie or Aaron, but Ethan?
Could the DI Doctor coming to the island at some point be a young Christian Shephard in 1977?
I am interested to see the storyline coming now that we know Charles and Ellie are powerful others when Ben beomes an other. We know that Charles says he was tricked into leaving the island by Ben but why did Ellie leave? and why did she help Ben get back in 2007 but not Charles?
Hi Mike- Love the blog!
When Juliette says to Kate that they should bring Ben to the others, because they would be able to help him, why does she say that? What does she know about the others that could help?
And do you think that it’s something she’s known about them all along ,or is it something that she found out about them in 1977?
Thanks again for all the props guys! I'm glad you enjoy my endless rants!
In no particular order: HurleyAteMe, i figured the DOC they were talking about was the same Docter that wouldn't deliver Amy's baby. But I agree, it would be interesting to see if we run into a young Christian Shephard on the island somewhere. Perhaps even with The Others?!
Peter - good call on janitors having keys to the cell. Of course, with Janitors usually cleaning places after dark, they need keys to get in places. a jail cell though? that's a stretch. It's nothing like the janitor on Beverly Hills 90210 (the old generation) who had the master key to West Bev and caught Steve Sanders with it! Ahhh now THOSE were the days! (no shame in watching that show, it was fantastic! New show? not so much!)
I'm going to guess that if Desmond's vision of the chopper still holds true that it will be back in present day and not in 1977. So baby Ethan would seemingly be out! But that raises a good question. Was Claire protected from the Time Traveling LOSTIES incident by hanging out with Christian in the Shack? (this is pending she's still alive) So did she not go to the 70's with them? And even though Emile de Ravin is not signed on as a full time cast member this season, might we see her make an appearance before the end of season 5 now that we know Kate's mission?
Taresa, I'm guessing whatever knowledge Juliet has of the OTHERS it's from her 3 years with them PRIOR to time traveling. She had knowledge of Richard being very very OLD, so there quite possibly could be more to what she knows. The crazy thing is, has she really not told Sawyer ALL that she knows about being an OTHER at this point after 3 years of being together? lol
To me Penny is over 30 years old in 2007. So, assuming Penny is really Charles' daughter, and assuming the Charles referenced last night is Widmore, since it is 1977, either Penny is already born (on the island perhaps) or we have another Charlotte age-flap on our hands!
Love the blog Mike. This thought hit me last night during the episode. Does anyone think the reason why Sun, Locke, and Ben did not go back in time was because they had already met Charles Widmore. I know it seems crazy but it is the only thing I can think of that seperates those people from Jack, Kate, Hurley, and Sayid
Do you think there is any significance to us seeing Richard carrying Little Ben into the Temple, where presumably he wakes up and sees Richard or something else mystical (e.g., Jacob), immediately followed by Big Ben waking up and seeing Locke?
Here's completely different thought on Desmond's vision of Claire and baby getting on the chopper... From what I can remember, we the viewers were never shown Desmond's vision. Sometimes we were shown others (Charlie taking an arrow to the throat) and other times we weren't (lightning, Claire drowning). My point is this: what if Desmond lied to Charlie? What if he saw he would be reunited with Penny on the rescue boat once Charlie drown? Could we believe he'd lie to Charlie in order to find his true love again? I say yes.
I literally said the words "yeah, Jack" when he said he came back to the island because he was supposed to. Love it. This is a character come full circle. I can't wait until he gets back with Locke now that they appear to view the island eye-to-eye.
Excellent editing at the end of the episode. The cut from Richard going into the Temple with Young Ben to Old Ben waking up in the future simply establishes the "whatever happened, happened" theory. Cool stuff.
Here's my take on Ben "losing his innocence" by going with Richard. I have come to accept that the selected and indigenous people on the island are not, by nature, "hostile". I think in their hey-day they were quite peaceful and enjoyed the fruits and benefits of the island, perhaps eternal life (a Garden of Eden theory, if you will). Only when the island is threatened by outside forces (an atom bomb from the U.S. Army, Dharma trying to study and/or steal the island's power) do the Others engage in violence. They do so on behalf of the Island (or Jacob) to protect and preserve these benefits. When Young Ben is removed from Dharma, the innocence lost is that his previous life was wrong and it will be his destiny to engage in deceitful, violent tactics to protect the island.
Or maybe the Others are naturally violent no matter what and by saving Ben he must become so as well, haha! Who knows? In any event, good episode, great recap Mike, and great discussions on here!
~Tim
great blog mike, forgot to mention earlier!
on the whole, ben not remembering sayid and then richard saying that he will forget all of this if they fix him. At first it seemed like they are covering up something, as in they feel the fans will presume the writers made a mistake as Ben didnt remember sayid so this is a way out of it. But as you said it seems perfectly normal for Ben to lie!
But it annnoyed me when Hurley said that question and it stumped Jin, it seemed like a simple answer for Jin!(even tho he wasnt there in season 2)
Do you think this was just for the fans who are questioning this, like u said using Hurley as a tool.
Got me thinking about how richard will save Ben aswell, could the island have the power to Re-birth some1, and so his memory starts from scratch again? Jesus i rambled sorry!
Whatever Happened, Happened. Sure, but, sometimes things get changed with time travel, and the universe corrects itself. Could "The Incident" be a change in the timeline from when the donkeywheel was initially turned by Widmore, and our Losties going back in time is the universe course correcting whatever "incident" happened?
Total aside, but Charlie is on some show called Free Radio right now.
I started reading this site a few months back, and missed all of season 1 and just recently watched it. I found Locke's story in Season 1 about a dog in his childhood (problem is Vincent is I believe a lab and in Loch's story its a Retriever) hugely relevant! Not sure if you ever addressed it. To me, it puts Locke on the island as a child. After his foster sister dies, a healthy dog wanders in, comforts his foster mom, then dissapears a few years later. Vincent time traveling? I rewatched the Locke's childhood stuff in Season 3, and his "mom" reminded me of the floozy girl delivering brownies a few episodes back??? Not sure about the car in foster parent's driveway, though. Your thoughts??
Great blog! We just wanted to ask what may seem a stupid question as we're not as hardcore as you guys (except that this question bothered us enough to look it up on a Lost blog, so I guess we are being drawn into the deeper entanglements of Lost), but, is there anyone else that does not buy the motivation of Kate and Sawyer helping young Ben? I mean, are we supposed to believe the stuff about never letting a kid die?
Mike, thank you for giving us something to think about on Thursdays!
I have wondered if Elle actually is Daniels mother. When Daniel was about to say her name to Desmond he flashed, so we don’t really know for sure. We assumed it, also because Desmond says something about Faraday’s mother outside the church. At which point Ben looks suprised. I wonder if the reason that Ben looked so weird could be because Elle is not Daniels mother. Ben is sneaky that way, and could easily have just kept his mouth shut and let the mistruth ride.
I wonder if the reason Ben was so sweet to Kate with the breakfast on the beach is because he knows she tried to help him when he was a kid. And remember Ben said something to Jack like, I want you to want to help me...because he knows that Jack wouldn't help him when he was a kid?
Just because he won't remember things doesn't mean he doesn't get told about them.
I think it is soooo exciting!
I just can't wait until next week!
Thanks again, and I'll be back!
Jennifer
Hey mike,great recap. I noticed something last night watching the episode for the second time. When Sawyer brings little Ben to the jungle to fing Richard, Richard says "that they have violated the truce by passing the line" and Sawyer says "we have a kid that has been shot and we both have a problem" Does that mean that the truce can be violated when kids are injured? Does this mean that young souls have to be taken care of for the sake of the island, because both sides (D.I and hostiles)survivals depend on the way they treat children?
Would llike to see your thoughts on this.
Surprised this hasn't been mentioned... the scene where Ben was shot showed a bullet hole in his shirt right over his heart. But when Jin turns him over, the bullet hole is now on the opposite side and lower.
Continuity error or view from two different perspectives (Sayid's and reality)?
Horseman...i agree about Penny...i think i mentioned in my blog ramblings this season at some point that maybe Penny was on the Island before...so I definitely think it would be cool if she was there in 1977! And of course there is this whole unspoken relationship between Charles Widmore, Penny, Daniel and Eloise....so it would be interesting to see how that all plays out too. And of course Desmond somehow plays into all of that too! I'm thinking we might learn a lot about this stuff next week given who the episode is about (once again don't want to be spoilerish!)
Jason..that's actually an interesting way to look at it. I never thought about it from that perspective lol The way I've been hearing is that Locke invited certain people to come back to the island but not Sun, Ben and Frank. I think either way...it's kinda silly if it has something to do with people meeting or saying certain words. But I just don't know what else it could be! But I'm sure they won't leave that unanswered. lol
Tim, good theories on the others! I guess Desmond could have lied to Charlie about the helicopter..he did lie to him before about visions. But, I just think they would blow a really cool way to wrap that storyline up. I can just see them really paying that vision of Desmond's off and creating a big tear-jerking scene in the series finale where we remember that Charlie gave his life to save Claire...and it plays out exactly as we thought it would with her getting on the helicopter.....and who knows? there could be added emotion depending on who the baby is that she is carrying with her. If it is Kate's...maybe Kate and Jack died and Claire is going to raise the baby like Kate helped raise Aaron. I dunno....it's a big stretch at this point. And at the same time i can envision a big dramatic payoff....i could also see them NEVER paying off that scene! lol
Peter, the thing is...when they probably wrote the episode...fans really WEREN'T questioning it yet...maybe they anticipated the questions. It just looks like they are going in a different direction that we may have originally thought. I just figured it would be cool if Ben knew all of these guys and gathered information on them in the past. Then again...I guess that can still happen AFTER he becomes an OTHER. He WILL be reinserted into DHARMA afterall...we know that much from him killing his father during the purge. I just think it would be really silly if they totally wipe out his memory. He clearly has built up baggage from childhood when he kills his father...so it must be that he forgets meeting Sayid and everything that went with that maybe. i dunno. The ironic thing is though....it seems like Roger Linus turned about to be a caring father...and probably after that shooting, he tried a lot harder....but in Ben's twisted mind..he will never be able to let go of the past.
PHARMER, those are some crazy ideas you have there! I am just going to say..."MAYBE" that will happen! But, I really don't think Locke was on the Island as a child. I remember him telling that story. But I think it was to serve another purpose in season 1. It mirrored events that were going on at that time with whoever's episode that was. Wow...looks like it might be time to watch season 1 again! With the incident? I'm still guessing it's just an electro-magnetic/nuclear event near the swan station....but i'm guessing speculation on that will end within the next 5 or 6 weeks!
Anonymous...you don't have to be an obsessed fan to want to engage in discussions of the show! Please keep coming back and checking out the blog! It is kinda hard to swallow with Kate/Sawyer wanting to help Ben. I guess we were meant to tie Kate's flashbacks together with the story and how Kate's motherly instict was at play here. We saw the look on Kate's face when Roger said "i guess he just needed his mother" We also know that Kate grew up with not the best role models as parents (except her step dad that she thought was her dad). And we know that Sawyer has some baggage from his chldhood too. Perhaps, at that point they could identify with Ben's situation and couldn't stand by and not help. It's a stretch...but if it makes the story work, in my opinion, so be it!
Jennifer, I think they'd really throw us for a loop if Eloise isn't actually Daniel's mother...they had too much in common to NOT be related in some way (could be an adopted mother or something i dunno) There's also a lot of evidence supporting Elle being a younger Eloise, especially with the awkward way Daniel recognized her. (back to the future reference at its finest!) I think the reason we didn't hear daniel say the name before the flash was to create suspense for the immediate episodes to follow...not for us STILL to be questioning it...but that's just my thoughts!
And WAS Ben nice to Kate? Sure he put her in a dress...but then something happened to her afterwards before she was put in her cage that we have never seen (and probably never will!)...she certainly wasn't happy! And then having to build a runway in that dress? Not so nice! lol
but yeah..i still have to think ben will have some knowledge of our LOSTIES as a child which will help him be a step or 10 ahead of them in the future.
Beatriz - I didn't look at that line any more than the fact that Sayid shot Ben and DHARMA thinks that Sayid is a Hostile....and Sawyer has a strange bond with Richard because Richard knows Sawyer is from a different time. So he's using this to his advantage to give Richard a heads up that there's an issue that could lead to a war that neither side is prepared for right now. Make sense???
Thanks everyone again for the continued compliments! Ego is still on the rise! :-)
(sorry for the novel, but i felt like responding to all comments this morning! lol)
Noel...i'm guessing that was just blood from the wound that we saw on the shirt. Did you see the actual bullet hole move? I didn't! And I'm pretty sure when Juliet was working on him it was in the place Sayid shot him.
But maybe i'll have to watch a 3rd time to be sure! LOL
To further think about Beatriz' comments...we commented on this blog that it seemed like a chin scratcher when Ethan's mom gave the lynch mob her "what about the children!" speech when they were deciding Sayid's fate. And we know about the future fertility issues. Putting it all together could lead one to believe that yes, children are "special" to the island and the island gets "upset" at some point and puts a "curse" on the island. Hey, it's as good a theory as any other. :)
Yeah, I'm not saying there isn't an importance to CHILDREN on the island. Clearly there has always been some obsession about it with the capturing of them and the infertility that eventually plagues the island. I was just saying I don't think Sawyer was indicating any of that! lol
Peter... just wanted to check, otherwise i am not sure what your talking about: you said that hurley stumped jin, you meant miles right? otherwise i am not sure what part your talking about.
yep, ur right! i meant miles sorry!
Does anyone think that the woman who "found" Aaron in the grocery store was Claire as an older woman
Michelle, I don't think that personally...I think the woman looking like Claire was just supposed to drill home to Kate that she has been living a lie and needs to get Aaron back to his mother (or really his mother back to Aaron!)
Mike, by any chance can you explain to me further miles's explanation to hurley on time travel? I get the whole part on how they can die and how they can not alter what has already occured. But what I still can not understand is the whole part of "this conversation has already happened" and "sayid has always shot ben"..... Maybe this is not clear what i am asking. So i will give an example. Let's say in 2005i was talking to my wife and told her that i thought her best friend was smoking hot and i wanted to make out with her and then my wife slapped me and told me to go to hell. Now it is 2009 and i travel back to 2005 when that happened. Wouldn't I remember that episode occuring with my wife? Regardless of whether or not i chose to try and alter what happened wouldn't my present day (2009) mind at least remember that experience? Maybe I am an idiot for not getting this and maybe it is simple to understand. Any chance you can explain deeper? By the way, my wife's best friend is pretty hot LOL
I just can't get rid of that idea. She had long blond hair, an accent like Claire. The show is crazy, just thinking they are throwing out another story line.
By the way, you do a great job each week.
yikes...nice choice of example! lol
Here's the problem with the example. In this situation you had the conversation as your PRESENT SELF and then traveled back in time as your FUTURE SELF. So yes you would remember the conversation.
It's better to use larger spans of time first of all!
Let's change up the story a little bit. You and wife are married at 30 years old in 2007 and she has a hot best friend. You have lived your life for 30 years and have memories from that span of time.
You travel back to 1977 with your wife. The year you were born. somewhere on the planet you and your wife exist as BABIES with no memories of what is about to happen.
But the 30 year old you and the 30 year old wife remember EVERYTHING that has happened in your past even though you are in 1977. So then you make your comment about your wife's hot friend. It is the first time you 2 are EVER having this conversation. so for you, you have never experienced it. At the same time...you have knowledge of the future. You know that Star Wars is going to come out in theaters that summer. And there is nothing you can do to prevent that from happening! George Lucas is going to make star wars. It has already happened from your perspective. So anything you tried to do to prevent that movie from coming out...you would fail.
MAKE SENSE? lol
Thanks Michelle!
It's an interesting theory and would involve more kinds of time travel for her to be in 2007 as an older woman. I hope it isn't Claire, because she really wouldn't have aged well! lol
I forgot to add one comment to my time travel example. Even though your conversation with your wife in 1977 is the first time you are having it from YOUR perspective, it has ALWAYS happened in the scheme of things because there is only one timeline. so if someone originally from 1977 was there to witness your conversation, they WOULD remember it in 2007. does that help?
i know im not mike ,Anonymous, and Mike will prob giv u a better explanation, but tot id try give u my answer to ur Q purely because im bored!
If u did go back to 2005, yes u would remember saying that, because it happened, to you. Your simply back in 2005. You remember it because u were there.
The difference on the show is that they are not traveling back to a time or place that, in there mind, they have ever been. So essentially everything that is happening to them in 1977 is new.
When he says "this conversation has already happened" he means in present day(2007 or whatever year it is) the conversation has happened, because thats really present day year in there minds.
I dont know if ive confused you more here or not lol
Mike and Peter, thanks so much guys! however, you both had me and then you lost me... I got most of what you said. But I am not getting the whole part about "even though the conversation is the first time my wife and i are having it the conversation has always happened from the scheme of things since there is only one timeline".... Peter tried to explain this in his response and i was not getting it. How can the conversation have taken place and i do not remember it? Are you saying that two other people had this conversation at one point and now my wife and i are replacing those people? Wouldn;t that alter the time line then? Man, now i am just confusing myself.....
By the way Mike, love the blog.... Look forward to reading your perspective every Thursday morning....
anonymous...THANKS first of all for the compliments on the blog. It's awesome that so many people get so much out of it!
Anyway...no you are not replacing the people...the people have always been YOU! I think i see the hump you're trying to get over. You're trying to figure out how things happened for the FIRST TIME instead of thinking about it from a perspetive that it ALWAYS HAPPENED. You need to think of TIME as an ongoing LOOP with no beginning and no end. And you are in that loop. So there is no FIRST time that you travel from 2007 back to 1977....it ALWAYS happens.
I like to relate it to the chicken/egg conundrum....there is no way to prove which one came first...they just both exist!
LOCKE always went back to 1954 to tell Richard to go see him be born in 1956...which set up the chain of events that led Locke to the Island in the first place (LOOP)
Sayid always shot Ben which caused Kate, Jack, Sawyer and Juliet to be involved in one way or another in Ben becoming the evil person that he is today (LOOP)
Hurley and Miles ALWAYS had a conversation in 1977 but that had no idea they were going to have this conversation until it happened from their perspective (i.e. they traveled back in time to have it). If Horace came in and heard them talking about it...he WOULD have remembered it in 2007 (pending he didn't die in the purge lol)
you and your wife always had the conversation in 1977...but did not know about it in 2007 because you didn't experience it yet until you went back in time to have it. That's why i threw the ages in there. in 1977 you were born...in 2007 you are 30, but time travel back to 1977....this iteration of you is still 30 and experiencing life with memories from your past. But there is also a newborn of you in the same timeframe that is about to go through the same experiences you already did.
WHEW....any better now? lol
Holy crap!!! I got it!! That is awesome... and opened a whole new door for me.... You guys rock!! GREAT explanation Mike.....
Is it Wednesday yet??? I look forward to Wednesdays like i look forward to Sundays during football season.. LOL
Love the blog! I read it every week but I’ve never posted. I have a random thought…I think its interesting that Jack saves Ben for Kate (the girl he loves) and now Sawyer is saving Ben for Juliet (the girl he loves). I think Jack obviously regrets saving Ben from the tone of his conversation with Kate and just his overall disposition to Ben in general. I also think that he kind of holds Kate responsible for the whole thing. So I’m just thinking maybe the parallel is setting us up for Sawyer to also regret saving Ben for Juliet in the future or present or past (who knows!) and maybe resent her for it too. Kind of random, but anyway love the blog! Can’t wait til next week!
Those are some good thoughts ASH! It would be a nice way to mirror the events. Thanks for the compliments on the blog btw!
Anonymous...glad you're finally on board! whew. It's crazy, once you get it...you TOTALLY get it! Sometimes it's just a little missing piece that is throwing someone off. Anyway...I would consider LOST DAY a much bigger deal for me than NFL SUNDAYS. It's close...but the NFL doesn't get me excited enough to blog a bazillion words about it. Just to gamble with fantasy players! lol
I loved this episode, it was not as intense as others(in my opinion) but was very emotional,lol(I was with some of my friends and we started crying when kate had to give up aaron,hehehe).
Me and my friend had also been thinking like Tim, that desmond just might have lied to charlie so that he could see Penny or that he had a vision of everyone else(the O6) on a helicopter and assumed that claire and aaron were a part of it, partly since season three but more after we found out who actually got off the island. But I really do hope that it actually comes true, charlie was my favorite character and he died for that reason and if what he died for did not happen then i would be mad/sad. plus i really like claire and want her to get off that stinken island!!!!!!!! lol.
ok well thats it for now, i think i am kinda rambling so, great blog! always enjoy it!
OMGH! Lost gets me so excited! There are so many questions , the biggest one weighing on my mind is "Where is Claire" Where did she go? Why are they making us wait so long??? Its driving me crazy! Wheres Sayid? I have a feeling we might have to wait a while to find this out though. I love that Saywer brought back his nicknames, i loved that about him. This episode was so emotional! I believe Aaron's in a good spot, though i thought claires mom seemed a little suspicious! Like is she going to tell anyone the truth? It also seems like alot of people know the truth about the O6 now and that seems a bit dangerous. Well Im rambling ! Bye!
Great episode.
I seem to remember Ben saying before that he was born on the island and this angered a bunch of fans as being inconsistent. I like how this scene with Richard sets up Ben's "rebirth" and explains why he may think that he was born on the island. Maybe he wasn't lying after all.
But on a more important note, am I going to have to wait for the season finale to see my main man Desmond again? I don't want to have to wait for another life to see him, Brother.
Thanks again for props!
Genghis, I never was ANGRY that the facts didn't match up with Ben's birth. I figured it was an intentional lie on Ben's part to go with all of his other lies. But, adding to what you said, maybe from Ben's perspective it really isn't a lie. He may feel that he was "REBORN" on the island based on whatever happens in the temple.
Still, I don't think his memory prior to temple will be completely wiped out. He obviously remembers issues he had with his father before he kills him. Eh I don't think it will be too long before we see!
Speaking of which, I would guess that we'll be seeing Desmond very soon as well, considering he probably ties into Ben's recent "off-island" story.
Not that I'm trying to "suggest without saying" whose character-centric episode is coming up soon at all! lol
So, I just watched season 3's "The Man Behind the Curtain" again. I had a temporary moment of forgetfulness earlier. Ben actually does tell Locke that he has not been entirely honest with anyone. He tells Locke that he wasn't born on the island. And he says that he was part of the DHARMA Initiative and shows him the DHARMA grave.
So I don't think they're going to go the "REBORN" route and try and tie it to Ben saying he was born on the island!
michelle, i think the same thing. while watching that scene with kate and the blonde woman who found aaron i got a strange vibe... i didn't notice any accent but it felt like the camera was focusing on her for a relatively long time, like she was REALLY important or something.
that's what made me think that it's claire. the only problem is why and how did she age so much?
i also thought that when kate told claire's mom the truth she looked surprised but at the same time kinda didn't. did anyone else get that vibe? you would expect her to flip out or be very shocked by what she was telling her.
oh and locke's smirk at the end of the episode was probably one of my fave moments on television!
I've been thinking a lot about baby Aaron's grandparents. We know Christian Shepperd is one. Has it been fully concluded that Charles Widmore is the other? It was highly theorized, based on the paintings on Widmore's office wall, that Widmore's son was Aaron's father. However, I found it odd that Desmond didn't recognize the painting when at Widmore's office??? I know they're not the same painting, but, recognizably the same artist. After rewatching season 2, I always seem to focus on the bizzaro painting in the hatch which appears to be the same artist. I would love to know who painted it? Was Aaron's father on the island? Did Desmond paint it? Its odd how I seem to always notice paintings on this show yet our Losties seem lost on the artwork...
Out of blue question, was the knife Locke took from Richard (when he took the sand and the compass) the same knife that killed Keamy? It looked very similar. I haven't gone back, but, could it have also been used to kill Naomi?
Being Lost is fun.
One last thing. Child pornography is never, ever a laughing matter. But when a dude wearing eyeliner is carrying a boy, looking around to make sure he's not spotted as he sneeks into a secluded "Temple" to take that boys innocence.......well
hey mike, just had an idea, tell me what u think. Remember when Bens daughter was killed in season 4 Ben said Widmore had "changed the rules". Maybe One of the rules of the island is that you do not kill children. That is also why Richard had to save young Ben..
Peter, I guess that is one possibility, although I wouldn't really consider Alex a child at 16! lol
I just figured that the things we have been finding out this season gave us more clarity on what "THE RULES" revolve around. And, pretty much, it's around Time Travel. Pierre Chang (marvin candle) explains that there are rules to time travel (can't go back and kill hitler). Daniel talks about the Rules and tells Desmond "the rules do not apply to you. you are miraculously special"
We also might want to consider the RULES have something to do with the inability of some of our LOSTIES to die sometimes when it looks like they're going to (Michael off island when he runs into Tom, Bearded Jack trying to jump off building, locke getting shot by ben on island, keamy shooting michael on freighter and his gun jamming). If the Island is in some TIME LOOP...then these people cannot die until they are supposed to.
So if it IS time related, then what did Ben know about ALEX that he knew that Widmore "changed the rules"?
SPOILER BELOW (PREVIEW FOR THIS WEDNESDAY'S EPISODE which you can watch on the main blog page right hand side) **********************
Looks like Ben is going to tell Locke that he also BROKE THE RULES. I wonder what he is talking about here? Turning the Donkey Wheel? Summoning the Smoke Monster? Killing Locke? Perhaps our favorite liar is going to give us an explanation on the RULES and we are going to have to choose to believe him or not.
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End Spoiler
So while we know "WHATEVER HAPPENED, HAPPENED" applies to most of our LOSTIES, We still need to find out why DESMOND is special, and if there is anyone else that does not apply to the rules.
Of course, that is merely MY thought process at the moment. I could be completely out of my mind! lol This show is so crazy!
ye, i thought that she was a bit old to be a child all right! Sometimes these mad ideas jus come to me, maybe i need to seek help...
Interesting ideas on the rules tho, do you think its possible that the reason Desmond is special is because he didn't travel through time physically? His conscious went back in time..
Naaa...keep the crazy theories coming! This is LOST, it begs for crazy theories.
I'm still holding onto hope that one day my crazy theory about Jack's ex-wife Sarah being Ben's ANNIE lol All based on the "you look just like her" comment that Goodwyn's wife tells Juliet. And Ben telling Jack that Sarah looks just like Juliet in season 3 lol
Of course, it probably has more to do with Juliet being in the DHARMA 70's with Ben now. But I still like my crazy theory!!!
Crazy theories are fun, and I like this comment board because we all seem to enjoy the theory…even when we know that it cannot be! Some other sites will have people tearing your thoughts apart viciously, but Lost Addicts just like to think about Lost, and that is why I check this site out several times a week to see what's new.
My son has a theory that Ben and Widmore are the same person somehow. He thinks that Ben kidnapped Alex because Charles has Penny, and that is why killing Alex broke the rules, and why they can’t kill eachother. I know that it doesn’t make much sense to me, and he can’t articulate it very well – he is 9 – but it is fun to see how everyone that watches Lost gets some ideas going, that is part of what makes Lost such a great show, it makes you THINK!
I've been watching Lost from the beginning but this is the first time I've read your blog, Wow. I enjoy all the ideas and theories. But one question still haunts me. Who or what is Jacob?
good question! If you find out, let me know! lol
it could be anyone at this point...lots of speculation points to LOCKE FROM THE FUTURE....but considering the producers jokingly brought this up once, i'm guessing not.
But, maybe we'll get a nice tease this season about JACOB to hold us over for the FINAL SEASON next year. Until then, any guess is fair game!
btw...whoever mentioned Richard's GUY Liner earlier....i think someone posted an article here in the comments a few blogs ago that stated that Nestor Carbonell does not use Eye Liner...he just has really thick eye lashes. So i think popular eyeliner commentary has been debunked!
But still pretty funny with him taking Ben into a temple to lose his innocence lol
In season 2, the "?" episode, Ecko goes to investigate the miracle rebirth of a girl named Charlotte Malcom. She really didn't look like Faraday's Charlotte, but, why would they repeat that name. They've been pretty good about not reusing names. Except Charlie (Pace, Widmore and Desmndkid) and Emily (Locke and Linus). Hell, maybe Jack and Jacob are the same (family reunion in the cabin with Christian and Claire). Anyway, could the Charlotte girl that drowned have been saved by Faraday?
Pharmer...i think the naming is just a coincidence. They would have to explain way too much to make that the same Charlotte....
The producers have said many times also that they originally wrote Charlotte Lewis to be an American in her 40's and were just won over by the actress's accent which made her British. (not Australian even like the Eko Charlotte!)
Interesting theory though! lol
I'm rewatching Season 1 for the moment and so I got thinking ... You know, there are a lot of speculations/theories that the people on flight 815 were meant to be on it, put there for some reason, that it was not a coincidence or something. Sun was actually not supposed to be on the flight, she was going to leave Jin. Someone told her she had to make an excuse and sneak out of the airport and there would be a car waiting for her. They made her repeat this several times. But at the very last moment she did get on the plane and so she did crash on the island...
Maybe this has something to do with the reason why now she is stranded in 2007?
GETTING LOST on TV GUIDE VIDEO
Nothing too spoilery in it...an interview with Emile de Ravin about her thoughts on where they'll take her Character next season...and Kim Dickens (Cassidy) hints that she may still have a role to play next season.
And speculation on whether Kate telling the truth about the Oceanic 6 to a couple people may have ramifications next season.
Carolinski - that is such a fresh take, i never thought of that. It would explain why she, along with Lapidus, didn't go back to 1977. But what about Locke & Ben?
as far as Sun, Locke, and Ben not going back in time... Maybe the island just didn't "need" them in 1977. Everyone else probably just has a specific "mission" in 1977.
Okay guys, listened to the official ABC podcast. I recommend you guys go to lost.abc.com and check it out or subscribe on iTunes. We found out the top vote getter in the mysterious scene that will cap off season 5...and some quality Q&A's. I'll try to sum up below!
1.) Magic Box - will we find out about it? The producers claim they have not forgotten about it and listed it among other things to be answered: Adam and Eve skeletons, DHARMA Food Drop, Where is Cindy?, What happened to Zack and Emma (Who??? the kids from the tail section? lol), and where is claire?
2.) if anyone had been following all the times that Golden pontiac was seen in episodes since season 1 (hitting michael, kate hitting it, driving by in a scene with Locke and his dad, hurley crashing into it, etc...) they producers claimed they never even knew this theory existed. But they went on joking that Jacob can only take the form of a CAR off the island and that's it lol
3.) Was the Hurley/Miles Time Travel conversation based on fan questions? As I speculated earlier in these comments, they wrote that scene before season 5 even premiered. But what they do as they have done in the past....is watch the episodes with the writers "AS FANS" after they are complete and try to ask questions the fans will ask. Sometimes they are good with it (writing off nikki and paulo before the fans even started complaining about them)...sometimes not (gave no examples lol)....but they definitely were glad they wrote the Hurley/Miles scene when they did because it was very necessary from a fan's perspective. And they also said (also mentioned in the first paragraph of my blog) that Hurley had to be the one asking the questions because he is the audience's PROXY on the show. He's on our side and speaks for us. GOOD TIMES!
Pre-hash for "DEAD IS DEAD" this wednesday: SEMI SPOILERS (not really but i know people are sensitive!) skip past asterix section to see the winner of the Secret Scene naming.
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we will continue the conversation of Ben and Locke and find out more of what's going on there. we will find out about why ben was all bloody. They speculate on if Penny and Desmond are involved and were frustrated by ABC promos yet again. They also mentioned we will see Desmond in this episode coming up. And are very sorry to fans of Desmond that this season does not focus on him primarily...there were other stories that needed to be told....but obviously his story is not over yet! (thanks Eloise!)
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Okay the big finale scene....here are the runner ups:
2nd Runner Up: The hooded Leprechaun
Runner Up: The 5th Toe
THE WINNER AND THE SEASON 5 MYSTERY SCENE IS:
The Fork in the Outlet
This was a late addition by Carlton to the nominees....and the reason for it being included? What happens when you stick a Fork in an Outlet? ...... "IT'S SHOCKING!!!!!" lol
good times.
to recap
season 1: the bagel
season 2: the challah
season 3: the rattlesnake in the mailbox
season 4: the frozen donkey wheel
season 5: the fork in the outlet
season 6: tbd
Whew...good times!
really hoping this weeks episode to be better than the last ones! havent watch the promo but they usually follow up a quieter episode with an action packed one. Anyone know if the 16 and 17th episode are going to be merged like the end of the 4th series?
Peter, yes the season finale will be 2 hours long (aka episode 16 and 17) just like the epic finales that capped off seasons 1-4.
Actually, Season 1 and Season 4's finales were actually 3 hours long. In both cases, the producers had to request the network and the powers that be for them to produce an extra hour in those seasons. Exodus Part 1 aired the week before the 2 hour Part 2. And "There's No Place Like Home" Part 1 of season 4 aired 2 weeks before the 2 hour part 2 last year.
There's some pointless information you never needed to know! lol
I am so excited to see the season finale, even though it means there will only be 17 episodes left of the show.=( I really like the secret scene name,lol, it is a good one, and i like the reason why also,lol. good stuff
New Doc Jensen!
HAPPY WEDNESDAY EVERYONE!!!
Prediction for this evening:
We find out that Ben killed Penny...
Not that far out there of a prediction. But I thought I would toss it out on the table.
And what a wonderful WEDNESDAY it is! Happy LOST DAY!
Let me offer up an alternate theory:
We find out tonight how Ben TRIES to kill Penny and somehow fails.
At least, that's my hope! But then why is he so Bloody? Did Desmond go ballistic on him? There has to be some motivation for Dez to return to the Island. So Penny/Charlie kicking the bucket would surely be a motivation! We shall see. I'm psyched!
I just wonder what was the point of Sayid even shooting little Ben? I'm pretty sure Sayid knows how to kill people and they're telling me that Sayid can't kill a little kid?? Did he do it just to make himself feel a little better? He had to know that he would not die.
not sure if this was metioned
If ben went into the temple the first time to save him why couldn't he go back to the temple to be fixed again when he got the tumor?
Ahhhhhh!!!!!! i am so excited for this episode! i wonder how the title will tie into it! The previews looked amazing so it should be a pretty good episode(hopefully).
Wonderful Wednesday to all!!!!
Thanks anonymous! Don't worry at all about going off topic. I don't know how often people go back and check these older posts anyway.
And, it's not off topic in my opinion. I'll accept compliments on the blog whenever and wherever! :-) Hope you stick around and check out my other blogs!
Wow, things are just accelerating! My one comment is that when Kate said to Jack something like 'if you don't help, then Ben will die', I was almost willing Jack to respond with a very Ben-like "So?". That would have made me LOL! Of course, he doesn't have the bug eyes to pull that kind of line off!
Add to the list of things we don't know but want to: What is the Smoke Monster?!
Love the Hurley/Miles scene (though I'm still waiting for Miles to have a purpose in the story at this point) and was saying something like 'Hurley is the audience, asking our questions again' when watching - that's his purpose. What's interesting about his character right now is that he was previously pretty hung up on being crazy, seeing dead people, etc., but the whole time travel thing isn't freaking him out at all. At least he's acting pretty calm these days.
The blog is fantastic, as always, and I see you've built up quite a fan base - good job!
Thank you so much LOST Family! Definitely built up a fan base, but nothing would prepare me for the onslaught that came in season 6! lol I barely remember the days of manageable 86 comments a week lol Of course, now that it's all over...I'm managing like 2 or 3 comments a week, including yours! lol
Nice that you were on Jack's side during that scenario...lots of people thought that Jack was an unredeemable character at that point. I was thinking exactly the opposite...he turned his life over to fate...and was waiting for his sign to do something. He became the new John Locke. I don't want to spoil anything, so I will just say that even during Jack's season 3, 4 and 5 downward spiral...I remained faithful that he would regain his mojo when the time was right. Now, whether he did or not...I'm not saying! LOL
As for the Smoke Monster, I'll just say what the producers said during seasons 4 and 5....answers like "what is the smoke monster" are things that they really can't reveal until the end game of LOST. That being said, you may find out sooner than you think! I'll elaborate on this more once you know what I mean! lol
Loved that Hurley/Miles scene too... As for Miles having a purpose...well, I will say that if you want a Miles backstory...you're gonna get it! And the episode is fantastic! But I don't want to give you the false hope that you're going to find out exactly how he can communicate with the dead. But you're gonna find out some interesting things about him that could lead you to theorize on answers to questions like that. Stuff that perhaps many of us speculated on in the blog! (hope I'm not being too spoilerish! I'm trying to be as vague as possible!)
As for Hurley...well yeah...he's back on the Island...perhaps he knew that he was never supposed to leave either and now that he's back, he's back in his comfort zone. Of course, the question you should be asking yourself is...what inspired Hurley to want to get on Ajira Flight 316?
So I'm guessing you might be a couple episodes further now since I'm a couple days late in response. Sorry! Busy weekend. Did you find out how you're going to watch Season 6 yet? Or are you planning to wait until 8/24 for the DVD/Blu?
Keep enjoying the ride!
Hi Mike, came across your blog around the middle of Season 2 and haven't looked back. Being a couple of years behind I can only speculate on a few things you comment on that I am late on.
1) What is this "Mystery Scene" naming game you mention every episode? I have absolutely ZERO idea but it all sounds interesting. 'Frozen Donkey Wheel' last season? I hope it isn't just random words that the writers try to work into the script. I'm sure it's not, I think they have more integrity than that, but that's all I can come up with.
2) You always are referring to the End Game as where we will find out information. I know that is the name of the last episode, but it sounds like there is more to it than that. At this point in the what have you learned about the 'End Game' beyond the name of the last episode?
Thanks for your help Mike, so excited to travel two years in the past and experience Lost as if it were 2009 again!
Hi Clarke! Thanks so much for finding my blog and checking in! Looks like you have been able to read MOST of my recaps because I didn't really start until season 2 with posting on the blog. I used to write emails before that to friends but had lost them before being able to post any of that info. Thanks for the props and I'm glad you are able to relive the experience through the recaps. That's great. As you can see from the comments, you're not the first to be catching up after the fact. I love that the blogs are still valuable for you guys! Okay...unfortunately for your questions, I don't have anything TOO exciting to tell you but I'll answer them!
1.) The mystery scene - every season, there would be a scene in the season finale that would be highly guarded. Most of the cast wouldn't get the page in the script and only the actors in the scene would know about it. Season 2 was probably Penny getting the phone call that the island was found. Season 3 - Definitely Jack and Kate at the end "WE HAVE TO GO BAAAAACK!" Season 4 - While Ben turning the Frozen Donkey Wheel was a big scene...I think they really just used that to hide the final moment where Jack and Ben are in the funeral home and we finally see Locke in the coffin. So, probably around this time, we started speculating what it would be in season 5. I don't want to ruin anything for the finale so I won't say anything. I have my guesses at what scene it was in season 5 but I'll hold off until you get there. that's about it though. It was just a secret game changing scene that was shrouded in mystery until it aired.
2.) As for END GAME....it's just an expression really. I'm always thinking about plot points that put in motion the END GAME of a season or the entire series. Basically, what is the story that is going to wrap up this season or the show overall? What is the plan? What is all of this moving towards. I wrap that all up in the 2 words END GAME lol Sorry for the confusion! But actually...it's not the EXACT name of the final episode! But no...I definitely know what the END GAME of LOST is now for better or worse :-) For me...it was for BETTER!
You're totally welcome for the help with LOST! I only wish that I could still find things to discuss on a weekly basis so that we could keep having great LOST discussions. Alas, I've had to move on to other shows. If you ever get a chance check out http://www.tvaddictsblog.com I'm recapping Fringe, The Event, and The Walking Dead but always leaving myself open for other shows whenever I have time! One day I hope to write another LOST blog post about my dissection of the LOST Encyclopdia (available in book stores now). Just haven't had the time! Anyway, thanks for taking the time to write me and I look forward to the rest of your journey through LOST. If you want to update me on where you are, feel free. I'll see the comments and respond!
This was a great episode and I even enjoyed the Kate flashbacks because they explained why she's going back to the island and resolved what happened to Aaron before she got on Ajira Flight 316 (both mysteries that were kind of annoying me until they were solved). Leaving Aaron with Mrs. Littleton was definitely the best possible option, and I even choked up a little bit when Kate said good-bye to the sleeping toddler. See, I can feel for Kate!
I mean, I really don't dislike Kate or Jack, especially Jack. Kate was probably my least favorite of the main characters the first three seasons, but she's been steadily growing on me and I don't hate her or anything, I just don't love her. And I genuinely like Jack quite a bit, especially when he does altruistic things or acts like Mr. Action Hero or shows he's human and conflicted like the rest of us (and the rest of the characters). Jack is a mostly a good guy but he's not perfect, and overall he's quite likable. He's hovering right there outside my top 6 or 7 favorites, and perhaps he'll crack the top 5 before it's all said and done.
Kate? Yeah, she's moved solidly into the top 10. I was really happy when she said she was going back to the island to get Claire. That was heroic of her. And she gave up Aaron to his grandmother, and that's probably the most unselfish thing she had done in her life! And THEN she took Ben to the Others trying to save his life, which was very humane of her, so she's been earning a lot of points in my book!
Man, just about all of the Oceanic 5 (post-2004) listen to really old music. The only one who doesn't was Jack, who was playing some pretty hard rock when he was driving around high on pills one time. The old music fits the tone of the show, of course, but I feel like they ought to at least listen to some Radiohead or Matchbox Twenty or Black Eyed Peas or something that was contemporary back in 2004-07. Or maybe a little classic Smashing Pumpkins or even U2? But no, they listen to Patsy Cline!
I loved the scenes with Hurley and Miles talking about time travel. I don't think it was heavy-handed (I haven't read the comments on this recap yet) because Hurley was just being Hurley and Hurley wanted to know! The discussions were illuminating and funny but didn't answer everything we want to know about time travel on Lost. There are still dozens of mysteries that remain entirely unsolved!
Jack won't do surgery on Ben: I really did think he might, but I'm not surprised he didn't. I liked how Jack and Kate argued about it and Jack made some salient points that showed he's a different man since they first arrived on the island. More different than I realized, perhaps.
So Ben ends up with Richard and he'll never be the same again! So Mike, were we both wrong thinking that Ben remembered the Oceanic 5 from 1977 so that's why he told them they had to go back to the island in 2007? Or will Ben be healed by the island, return to Dharma as a spy for the Hostiles and interact with the Oceanic 5 (minus Sun, so far), and once again have reason to insist they all have to go back to the island in 2007?
Dead Locke tells newly awakened Ben in 2007, "Welcome back to the land of the living." Darn tootin' that's a BOOM! No matter what else happens, that smirk on Locke's face was worth the price of admission!
LOL on feeling for Kate. Yeah, this was definitely one of her better centric episodes. Funny on the music too. If Patsy Cline wasn't such an identifying characteristic of Kate, I might tend to agree. Ironically, I just was at an MB20 concert the other night. I still find them contemporary, but most people I guess remember them as a late 90s band. Whatever!
You seem to be picking up the right stuff with Jack. But, might I just add (and it may have been in the recap), that Jack's non-actions and Kate/Sawyer/Juliet's actions actually caused Ben to become the person he is in the present day. He "lost his innocence" per say. Of course..it had to happen that way, but it was still shocking to all of the people involved that that's WHY it happened. Juliet, Kate and Sawyer were not too happy with Jack.
Yeah, I mentioned in the previous episode about that Hurley/Miles scene. Just fantastic stuff. Perfect way to have a Time Travel conversation in LOST.
And yes...we were both wrong on Ben having knowledge in the present about his past interactions with the crew. I remember some people thinking that was a little "convenient" writing on the writers' part to make him just "forget it all". lol But it worked for me. Convenience for story, right!?
So, I'm sorry if I spoiled something in an earlier post. I forgot THIS was the episode where Ben wakes up and Locke is there. I kinda mentioned it in the Life and Death of Jeremy Bentham post. Oops! :-)
While I admit the time-travel discussion was a bit heavy-handed, things did become clearer for me. Besides, you gotta love Hurley being a geek :) This was also probably the first time I liked Miles on this show.
In terms of character development, this was one solid episode. Jack, the hero, Mr. I-can-fix-this, refuses to do anything while Kate of all people is trying to save Ben's life. This was probably the first time we've seen her do something truly selfless (both on the island and in her flashback). These people really have come a long way from season 1.
Loooved Ben's alarmed look and Locke's smirk in the end. Oh, things are sure going to be interesting with those two!
I think you had mentioned how you don't like Miles in season 4. I thought of that specific scene where things might turn around for you! lol Maybe heavy handed, but it was fantastic.
Agreed on character development.
It certainly was a great ending! I'm just so jealous you get to experience all this for the first time. Obviously, I can't say a word until you do!
How they lied, how Aaron is her grandson, how Claire is still alive (hmmm can we accept that as confirmation even though Kate doesn't exactly know what happened to her?), and how she lied because she needed Aaron. She wanted to keep him safe, to protect him.
Kate still managed to lie to Carole Littleton. She kept Aaron for selfish reasons only . . . she used him as an emotional blanket to cover the trauma she had experienced leaving the island. And this idea that she had to "protect" Aaron never explained why she kept Aaron from Mrs. Littleton after their first meeting at Christian Shephard's funeral.
Definitely true, but I'd think Kate would have to keep Aaron to maintain the oceanic 6 lie even if she was selfish for keeping him in the first place.
Well that would have been criminal and unnecessary. And the idea that Kate was six months pregnant when Oceanic 815 crashed is ridiculous. All one had to do was check the Sydney airport security tapes. Is there some need from "LOST" fans for Kate to serve as Aaron's guardian, no matter what?
Maybe we’re judging an episode/ storyline written in 2009 for network tv in 2021 a little too harshly? We definitely poked holes in the whole oceanic 6 lie back then too and have all acknowledged since that the show isn’t perfect. I’m not sure what comment in the recap or comments you’re specifically referencing but in my last comment I think I was just speaking to upholding the lie the show came up with however flawed it was. Overall, LOST weaved together a pretty complex tale at an unprecedented quality for network television that was never matched again. It was held up against prestige premium cable dramas of the day and paved the road for many of the bingeworthy stories we stream today. I personally can forgive or laugh at a few liberties they took with the story to keep things moving or get themselves out of a corner they had written themselves into.
Maybe we’re judging an episode/ storyline written in 2009 for network tv in 2021 a little too harshly?
Seriously? Whether from 2009 or even the 2020s, what Kate did was a criminal act. She had more or less committed kidnapping by perpetrating a deception about her and Aaron. Again, fans are still trying to make excuses for her. If Kate was able to realize what she did was wrong, why are so many fans still try to make excuses for her? Because she was the leading female character?
You act like I’m on some kind of mission to defend Kate daily since 2004. Comments live in perpetuity. It’s not like I sit here thinking about it day in and day out lol. I’m more about discussing the show that exists as it was written and not what could have been. I honestly don’t even remember the argument that was happening and didn’t read fully. Of course Kate is a criminal. The entire show was about flawed people plucked from their miserable lives and given a sort of 2nd chance to serve a purpose. Again I don’t want to spoil future episodes and I clearly see you’ve probably watched the entire thing.
I’m not defending Kate but the show clearly went through lengths for them to want us to root for her. For all of the losties. I mean come on. Ben Linus is a terrible person too but we sure enjoyed spending time with the character! Lost was created during the age of the anti hero where we found ourselves rooting for despicable people. I’m not going to make excuses in 2024 for things I said then or even 3 years ago. The show was well written and enjoyable. And one of my favorites even with its flaws.
But feel free to go through all my posts and question me! Lol
Jack was not only full of shit in this episode, he was also petty and monstrous in his refusal to treat the 12 year-old Ben. I was disgusted.
Jack is definitely on a journey after leaving the island. And he hit some low points. But the things that happen in the past possibly will pave the way for what happens in the future. Definitely a big debate they tried to trigger in season 5. Can they change thei fate or are they the causes of their own destiny? It all inevitably leads somewhere. But yes, in the moment that was a tough look for Jack.
We also know that Kate grew up with not the best role models as parents (except her step dad that she thought was her dad). And we know that Sawyer has some baggage from his chldhood too. Perhaps, at that point they could identify with Ben's situation and couldn't stand by and not help. It's a stretch...but if it makes the story work, in my opinion, so be it!
Granted, her father was an alcoholic and abusive toward his wife. But what do you mean by her mother? The worst thing Diane did was have an affair with Wayne before eventually marrying him. It was Kate who had wronged her . . . by murdering Wayne and lying to Diane about why she had committed the murder.
That does not excuse the fact that Jack's refusal to treat Ben would lead to criminal charges back in the States. And he was being petty when he had decided to treat Ben, especially since Kate's request had reminded him of her request to operate on Ben to save Sawyer's life, three years earlier. What a douche!
Not disagreeing on Jack. It was a rough patch for him. I’m just saying what the show/writers were doing for his arc at the time. Can’t comment much past that without spoiling the future of the show.
Fair enough of Kate’s mother. From what we saw on the show we did see that Kate’s other did try to get her arrested. I feel like there’s some other examples but I’m a little rusty on my Kate’s mom lore. Again….these comments were from years ago. I really don’t know how to defend my ramblings from over a decade and a half ago!
But I appreciate you adding more perspective to the conversations!
I don't care what kind of "rough patch" Jack was going through. He wasn't the only one. I thought his refusal to treat 12 year-old Ben was petty, repellent and wrong. I wish he had been in the States. His ass would have ended in jail for what he did.
After Kate had hinted of her father's murder, her mother Diane had informed her to the cops. Unlike many fans, I saw nothing wrong with this, considering Kate had committed cold-blooded murder for selfish reasons. Worse, she had constantly lied to her mother on why she killed her father.
Even the series had made it clear, ever since Season Five's "The Little Prince" that Kate's lie about Aaron was wrong. In at least two Season Five episodes and one Season Six episode.
I assume you mean that saying she did it for her mother is the lie? They were all flawed people. That was kinda the point without spoiling the future. I’m not defending her or Jack. I’m pretty much just saying what I was thinking back then and what the writers were probably attempting to do. Obviously, Jack’s actions weren’t great. I stand by my comments. lol
You’re right. What she did was wrong. Doesn’t mean we were supposed to hate on Kate. They were all flawed. They all have a chance at redemption on the show even if they don’t deserve it. Darth Vader effect. lol
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