Once again we flash between 2 different time periods and do not focus on any particular character this time around. As suspected we have some people on the Island in 2007 and the rest are stuck in 1977, the Glory Days of the DHARMA Initiative. In 2007, we uncover more of what happens to Ajira Flight 316 and the passengers that remained on the plane. In 1977 we continue where we left off last episode as Sawyer meets up with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Jin. And off we go to that mysterious Island we know and love!
2007
Ajira Flight 316
It's night time on flight 316. Must be moments before Jack opens Locke's letter. Our Oceanic 5 are preparing for their return. Up in the cockpit Lapidus is a little concerned himself!
- The co-pilot informs Frank that he recognizes Hurley as one of the Oceanic 6 and states that he must have nerves of steel to get back on a plane.
- Then the turbulence begins. They turn off the auto-pilot.....then the FLASH happens.
- It would seem that the flight FLASHED to the Island as well wouldn't it? It was all of a sudden daytime after the flash and the Island was in sight. There have been many rumblings out there that maybe the Island doesn't move through space at all, just time. Perhaps these windows to get to the Island have nothing to do with WHERE the Island is. It could just be a matter of passing through the window when it is open to get to the stationary Island. And if that's the case, we could tie flight 815 and the Nigerian Plane both to this theory. As for water arrival, that may be different story all together (Rousseau, Desmond, Freighter, Black Rock).
- Anyway, the plane seems to have lost power in the flash but they are able to power back up enough to get the thing in somewhat flying shape to land. At this point I screamed out "LOOK FOR THE RUNWAY!!!!!" And sure enough, they found it! This finally settles the debate that some out there were STILL saying there was no runway for the plane to land on. We see a DIRT PATH paved for a plane to land. We learned in season 3 that Sawyer and Kate's hard work breaking rocks (for those dreadful 6 episodes) was all for building a runway. Was the runway a task set forth from Jacob as he knew that the Ajira flight would land there? If so, we can still speculate that Jacob just may be Locke from the future. But we shall see one of these days!
- While the plane is heading down, you can hear The Numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 being recited over their radio. What is THAT all about????
- Frank is able to land the plane on the runway, but runs out of track. The plane comes to a sudden stop as it slams into trees and vines and what not. Those trees and vines put a sudden end to the co-pilot as well!
- We find out that Sun is still on the plane as suspected. We find out that Caesar and Ilana do not know each other (he called her "Lady").
- We find out Ben was not hurt from the crash as he confirms that Jack, Kate, Hurley and Sayid are all gone. And asks how he can possibly know where they are. Ben says a lot of other things in this episode that I want to believe to, but I just give up on that guy!
After Crash Happenings
We rejoin the 316 survivors on the beach.
- Sun is clutching Jin's wedding ring hoping to find him. Ilana exchanges some pleasantries with Sun.
- Frank takes charge tells everyone to stay calm and stick together until they get rescued. We've been here before and are bored for a second! Frank plays dumb to where they are to all of the newbies.
- Caesar makes mention of a few things to Frank that triggers Ben to know they're on Hydra Island. He sneaks away. Sun follows....and Frank is not far behind.
- Ben informs Sun that he is going back to "OUR" Island and invites her along. He claims that he does not know where Jin is, but considering we know more about Ben's past, perhaps he does!
- We learn that the 3 Outriggers DO belong to The Others. I'm not sure why Juliet would claim not to know they existed a few episodes back if that was the case. I am going to choose not to look into this one!
- Frank arrives and warns that Ben is dangerous and recaps the Freighter with mercenaries coming all with the mission to kill Ben. Loved Ben's response "How did that work out?" As we know, the OTHERS took care of the mercenaries. And well....Ben took care of Keamy.
- Ben suggests there are supplies that can help at the DHARMA Barracks that are not far from the dock.
- And once they get that information SUN, who claims she had to trust Ben, slammed Ben on the head with an OAR! THWACK!!!! "I Lied" niiiiiice! So next time we see Ben he will probably get a nice wake up call from Locke.
Back to the Island
- Frank and Sun take an outrigger to the Island and head to the barracks.
- They did encounter Smokey for a second. (or heard it) Frank has never seen the monster. I don't think Sun as "SEEN" it either but she definitely knows of its existence, but doesn't alarm Frank about it.
- When they get to the abandoned barracks, we begin to hear whispers....then a LIGHT pops on in one of the houses. It's Christian Shephard! Well, he is just appearing to everyone now it seems. I don't have enough more information here to speculate about what's going on with him at the moment. So we take it for what it is. A Ghost that can hold babies and turn on lights and appear in different times, off the Island and on the Island and on the Freighter and can talk to anyone he pleases! Is Locke the same as HIM now? or different somehow? Stay Tuned!
- Sun tells Christian she is looking for her husband. Christian brings them inside and shows them pictures of the DHARMA Recruit Classes. They come across 1977 and we see Jack, Kate and Hurley in the picture. He tells them that they have a bit of a journey ahead of them. Hmmmmm are Sun and Frank going to travel back in time TO them?
- We're not quite there yet, but you may want to take a look at these 2 pictures (the photo and the live TAKING of the photo). Our image experts over at lost.cubit.net have identified that there is a MISSING person in the LIVE shot (see #4). However, if you look even closer at the circled place in the LIVE shot. You can still make out a FOOT in there. What's going on here? Could be just a mess up in the filming. Or we could be meant to think that there is some altering with TIME going on. Even a Ghostly appearance in the picture! Very Marty McFly Back to the Future disappearing Photo'ish! I'll leave it up to you to all theorize in the comments!
- Also, if you rewind the scene when Christian is showing the photo to Sun and Frank, the door swings open and there is a quick sighting of smoke. Now if you recall, when Christian appeared to Jack off Island in the flash forward, the smoke alarm went off. I mentioned that it was possible that it could be related to the Smoke Monster! Well, I'm throwing it out there again! It may not have been smoke at all, but it's worth noting!
- One more thing to note. Apparently, you may have only seen this on the HD Broadcast, but near the end of this scene, you can make out a woman standing in the room with Christian as well. Speculation is leading to this possibly being Claire! (Look behind Sun to the right in this photo.)
1977
Reunion
We continue the story right where we left off. Sawyer arrives to meet up with Jack, Kate, Hurley and Jin. Everyone stares and smiles for awhile. Then, it's time to catch up!
- Hurley breaks the tension and goes for a hug. "you're alive!!!" Sawyer goes for a nickname in return "Easy on the ribs Kong!" to which Hurley responds that he missed that. Good times!
- Friendly handshake follows between Jack and Sawyer. And then the awkward hug between Kate and Sawyer with shots of Jack's "what can I really do? It's been 3 years." reaction.
- Sawyer asks how Locke got them to come back. They caught Sawyer and Jin up to the best of their knowledge that Locke was dead. Jack said it didn't matter how he died (didn't want to tell them it was suicide as he thought it was).
- Jin avoided explaining their current situation without Sawyer's help. They explain that it's 1977 and they've been working for DHARMA for 3 years. (Hurley's "WHAT???" reaction was priceless leading into the opening LOST title)
- Hurley's reaction to Jin's improved English was also a good time! So great to have them all together again!
- Kate reveals that it has been 3 years since they left the Island as well.
- Sawyer and Jin explain that they cannot be off grounds too long without reporting in because of the hostiles (others).
- Jack explains that they didn't come alone and that Lapidus, Sayid and Sun were on the plane too. Jin runs off to the FLAME station stating that if a Plane landed on the Island, Radzinsky would know!! (Recognize the name? Well I threw in a question in the last blog if we'd meet him and sure enough we did! He was Kelvin's hatch mate in the Swan prior to Desmond. He eventually blows his brains out leaving Kelvin to push the button alone. There was speculation that Hurley was going to turn out to be Radzinsky. No such luck folks! But I guess there's nothing saying that Hurley won't provide him with the numbers (4 8 15 16 23 42) to program into the hatch computer!)
- Sawyer panics as he thinks they need to slow down and think things through (a theme that we will revisit a little later). He tells the rest of them to stay put until he figures out a way to explain where they came from.
- Kate asks who else is there besides him and Jin. Naturally, we cut away without hearing Sawyer's answer. But the story cuts to Juliet and Miles...
Back at the Ranch
- Juliet heads to Security Station and requests Miles' help for finding Sawyer who took off without any explanation. They find out he has returned to the Barracks.
- Sawyer catches Juliet up. She definitely didn't react well to their return as she probably was just getting used to be happy and in love with Sawyer! But she was the one that came up with the plan. The sub was coming in with new recruits that day. Jack, Kate and Hurley will be 3 of them!
And the Baby is...(drumroll)
- There is a short scene between Juliet and Amy where Juliet grabs the Sub manifest stating that she didn't want Amy working during her recovery from giving birth.
- We find out that they named the baby ETHAN. This was a popular speculation and based on the timing, probably one of the only options that really worked. (although I thought Ethan was older than 27 when 815 first crashed!) But this is intriguing. Ethan was originally a DHARMA guy then. So that kinda kills any theories that only Island Natives can come and go from the Island as they please. (I started to think that after we saw Tom "Mr. Friendly" off of the Island talking to Michael saying that "some of us can come and go") I guess there is the possibility that they really do take the Sub on and off of the Island. But that doesn't explain Richard going in the 50's pre-DHARMA. Unless, Richard is a Ghost-like dude just like Shephard and possibly Locke. Oh well, for now, we know Ethan was with DHARMA. So that begs the question, what side does Amy end up on when the PURGE happens? Ben tells Hurley in season 4 that he was "one of the ones" who were smart enough to join ranks with The Others before ending up in the DHARMA ditch. And if Ben had to kill his father. Perhaps Ethan had to kill Horace or Amy? Or maybe that's only a task for the one destined to become the LEADER of the Others? Ahhh, I'm rambling. We'll save the rest for the comments!
- Amy asks Juliet when she and Jim are going to have children. Juliet hesitates saying the timing has to be right. That could be two-fold with the Baby making issues on the Island (which we have to find out how that happens right?) and also with the return of Kate!
Sawyer's Plan/Orientation
- While they wait for Sawyer's return, Kate fills the time by asking about Hawking and if she mentioned that they'd be arriving 30 years in the past. Jack says no and is wondering what they have to do there.
- Sawyer returns and catches the trio up with the plan and that it has to happen now. Another batch of recruits doesn't come for 6 months. Jack goes for a power play to try and think up another plan. Kate and Hurley decide they should listen to Sawyer "I vote for not camping!" It's going to be interesting to see how long Sawyer remains the one in charge. Clearly something will have to happen that will make Jack the "go to" guy again! But through the rest of this recap, we will see how Sawyer gets enjoyment over the current role reversal!
- Sawyer also explains how everyone is always knocked out for their Sub trip. So no one meets each other until they get here. Let's discuss this in the FLAME section below!
- On the DHARMA Van ride back to the Barracks, Hurley asks about warning the DHARMA people about the purge (I love how everyone just accepts the fact that they're in the 70's so quickly!).
- Sawyer has a great comeback about not playing Nostradamus for them. But then explained how Faraday had a theory about trying to change the past. (I wonder if this is the "what happened happened" theory or if something different happened when he decides to talk to Charlotte?) We find out that Faraday definitely is not with them anymore. So I wonder if the scene with Dan at the Orchid has already happened at this point? We didn't find out if Dan was dead, alive, with the others, transported to the future....so I'm guessing the reveal of what happened to him will be significant! Perhaps, Sun and Lapidus will run into him and then we will get a Dan-centric Flashback episode? Ahhhh me and my crazy theories!
- The Van arrives at the Barracks. The band Blue Image's "Ride Captain Ride" is playing to celebrate the arrival of the DHARMA recruits. Key lyrics include "mystery ship" and "others." I'm sure there is no significance other than irony!
- Sawyer explains the plan. Jack, Kate and Hurley's names have been added to the recruit list. They should go to the Meet and Greet, watch the video, put on their jumpsuits and take their work assignments.
- Hurley was paranoid that he would get quizzed on who the president is at the time. Sawyer ensured him that it wasn't a game show and that he has their back.
- Miles returns and questions the arrival of the 3, but there are bigger things to deal with. Duh, there's a 145 at the Flame! Sawyer talks to Jin via the walkie and finds out the have run into a hostile. Yep, it's Sayid (I skipped that story intentionally for the moment, so we'll get to it in a bit!)
- So we follow Jack, Kate and Hurley into the orientation. The video is the same one we saw during Ben's flashback episode in season 3 "The Man Behind the Curtain" when little boy Ben and his father "Roger Workman!" arrived on the Island.
- We finally get a name for the DHARMA guy from Mad Men. It's Phil (whew, that's easier!). He summons over "Jack Shephard" (hmmm, they didn't bother with aliases this time. Hopefully they don't do too much off-island research!)
- Jack meets Pierre Chang first-hand. (aka Marvin Candle, and various other waxy names!) Chang mentions that this is not is normal job but he was summoned from his lab to help. (probably because Amy was resting) He can't find all of the paperwork and blames it on everything being disorganized that day. He asks Jack who his shuttle driver was. Jack tells him LaFleur and that's good enough for him. We find out Jack's work assignment will be a "WORKMAN" aka DHARMA Janitor Jack can't help but smile because he knows Sawyer was behind it. So the big question...will Jack actually meet and worth with Roger Linus? I'd put money on it! There was an attack by the hostiles at one point during Ben's flashback episode. I wonder if we will actually see why that happened!
- Kate runs into a little trouble as Phil cannot find her on his list. Juliet saves the day, reluctantly!
- We will probably get more info on Kate and Hurley's jobs next week. But I am still guessing for now that Hurley will work with Radzinsky!
The Return of the Flame
Well, did you guys ever think we'd see the Flame station again after Locke blew it up? It's back in all of it's glory in 1977! Complete with Muppets Broadcasts and DHARMA Legends we've only heard about in the past. We follow Jin to the FLAME who is in desperate search for information on his missing wife.
- We meet Radzinsky who is clearly building the model of the Swan Station (the original hatch!) that we saw in the orientation video way back in season 2. The blueprint for the Swan is underneath the model. We will get into more Swan discussions in a second.
- Jin runs in and starts checking the radar logs. He wants to know if the plane landed. Radzinsky flips out a bit then tries to help him. Although he is confused at Jin's incessant need for the information.
- Radznisky hears back from The Looking Glass who said that there is nothing coming but the Sub. Remember the bluepring for the Looking Glass and how there was a spot on it for the Sub? I had theorized way back then that this was possibly how the sub was arriving to the Island. Remember, everyone is unconscious for the trip. Juliet was too. We have never seen the sub actually "arrive" to the Island and neither has any of its passengers which makes you think something crazy is going on. And considering how we now learned that aircraft are "TELEPORTED" (for lack of a better word) to the Island through these windows, perhaps the DHARMA sub is similar? Lots of questions on those water vehicles! I always wanted to see more of The Looking Glass station. That was quite a set they built for the season 3 finale. Seeing it for 2'ish episodes isn't enough. Give us more Looking Glass!
- Anyway, grid 325's motion censor went off with Hostile activity. Jin, hoping it's Sun, runs out to meet them. Long story short...It's Sayid! Jin quickly asks where Sun is. Sayid states that he doesn't know. Then Radzinsky arrives and Jin changes his tune. They both point their guns at him. He has to treat Sayid like a HOSTILE.
- After Jin's call to Sawyer, James rushes to the Flame station. Radzinsky explains that they have shoot him because he saw a model of the Swan station and sees where they are building it. Hmmmmm so perhaps the Swan WAS a mystery to The Others which is why Radz and Kelvin may not get purged. Well, Ben has to find out about it at some point, because he monitors them from The Pearl station with Juliet before he recruits Jack to do his surgery.
(Here's Radzinsky!) - By the way, Radzinsky's in-depth involvement with DHARMA and the maps of stations explains how he was able to draw the blacklight map of the stations in the Swan Hatch. By the way, reading that map again so many seasons later is a pretty good time! Things seem so much clearer!
- Sawyer gives Radz a great nickname of "Quickdraw" with his desire to kill Sayid. Instead, Sawyer relishes the chance to "interrogate" Sayid, similar to Sayid interrogating Sawyer in season 1. This time though? No torture involved.
- Apparently, terms of the truce are that Hostiles have to identify themselves as such or else they can be shot on sight. Sayid plays along.
Welcome Sayid the Hostile!
- Back at the barracks we flash to the 1977 taking of the DHARMA Recruit picture. We discussed this in the 1997 section above.
- What we didn't discuss was the song playing during the Photo Event. Something about a "DHARMA LADY" ? Could this be the legendary Geronimo Jackson band that has become a household name since season 2? I've heard rumors that a Geronimo Jackson album would be available for sale in the real world at some point this season. And that one of the songs would be featured in an episode. I'm guessing this was what the producers were discussing! Sorry kids, I think I'm gonna have to pass on the album purchase. So you can let me know how it is whenever it goes on sale!
- Sawyer brings Sayid back to the barracks and takes him straight to the security station. Everyone sees Sayid though in the process. It's going to be a difficult sell to assimilate Sayid into the DHARMA crew!
- Sawyer gives Sayid a nod assuring him that he has it under control. And he tells Phil to get him some food.
Just Like Old Times for Jack and Sawyer
- Jack wants to have a chat with Sawyer to catch up a bit. Love how Phil tells him not to call LaFleur JAMES. He hates it.
- Juliet answers the door. A nice cheesy hugging scene between those 2. But the killer part is when she tells him he didn't have the wrong house. She is marking her territory! (well, not from Jack...but you know what I mean!)
- Sawyer offers Jack a beer to which he declines. (I'm sure he loves drinking refrigerated and fresh DHARMA beer now!)
- Jack has many questions about their current situation, but starts with asking about Sayid. Sawyer says he's working on it. Jack starts questioning Sawyer's work ethic (reading a book). And Sawyer lets Jack have it!
- Sawyer explains his leadership style vs. Jack's. How Jack was more reactive than thinking things through (while reading books Winston Churchhill style) and how people ended up dead under Jack's lead. Jack retorts saying that he got people off the Island (good job Jack...all 6 of you plus Desmond!)
- Sawyer says he is going to go back to reading his book. It's how he saved Jack today and how he'll save Sayid tomorrow. Oooh burn!
- Can't have Jack and Sawyer being friendly for too long right? I love how they reintroduced the tension between them. That being said...there's no way Sawyer-in-charge can last. Some event has to happen to put Jack back in control. Maybe it will be a surgery that needs to be performed. Maybe something entirely different. But, as Jack told Sawyer in season 2 "when I want the guns, I'll get the guns!" For now, this dynamic should be a fun one to watch!
- After Jack leaves, Sawyer stares at Kate across the way, but then retreats back to his home with Juliet. Stay tuned for more drama there!
Sayid is hungry again!
As we all know from Sayid's reaction to the lima beans on the freighter, you do not want to give the man bad food! It makes him very disgusted! Fortunately, someone comes to his rescue with food that is a step up from the beans.
- A little boy arrives to bring Sayid a sandwich. Sayid gladly accepts. The boy asks if Sayid is a hostile. Sayid asks what he thinks? The boy asks for Sayid's name. He gives it. Sayid asks for the boy's name....we see his face. "BEN" Nice to meet you Ben!
BOOM LOST!!!!
OK, so it was obvious that it was going to be Ben. That's all good. The bigger question. Will Sayid decide that this is the information he needs to choose a side? Sandwich (Ben) vs. Lima Beans (Widmore)? Oh yes...you must go with the better food option! Okay okay, I'm kidding! The bigger question is if Ben is working for the others already. And if not, is he hoping Sayid is one so that he can get more information about them? We know he wanted to leave DHARMA not long after he got there to be with his GHOST MOM.
Other questions that arise from this. Ben is aware of Sayid, Jack, Kate and Hurley from 1977. Did the 2004/2007 version of Ben have this knowledge? If so, then he DOES know what happened to all of them. He always knew that they had to go back to the Island if they left. And...is that how they had all of the information about Sayid and Jack that we found out in season 3. Because they have been following their lives since way back when? Same with John Locke?
Loads of questions that time travel can bring! We can sort them out in the comments below. I think I've gotten a little too wordy once again so I will say my goodbyes! Another fantastic episode of LOST in the history books. Hope you enjoyed my ramblings and I look forward to hearing yours! And it couldn't be more appropriate than after this episode to say...NAMASTE!
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Special thanks as always to Sledgeweb for providing awesome screen shots on their site.
82 comments:
Hey! Not new to the blog (following it for a while now & loving it), but new to the posting part.
I was just wondering how strange it was that Sun & Ben didn't flash to the main island. I could understand why Lapidus wasn't, since he's not part of the O6/others and all, but Sun & Ben? Could it be because little Ben is on the main island and older Ben is not supposed to run into himself? Then maybe there could be a possibility that Sun as a child is also on the island...
Second thing I was wondering about: isn't it strange that the Ajira flight they had to take in order to get back to the island just happened to be on exactly the same time a submarine is arriving (which only comes like once every 6 months)? Maybe the arriving for the new recruits also has to pass by this same 'window'?
Again: great blog, hope to read a lot more of it!
carolinski
Hi Carolinski. Thanks for the compliments!
You know, I was wondering the same thing with Sun, Ben (I'll even throw Lapidus in there) but totally forgot to bring it up. You can chalk it up to Random effects of the Island, but I agree...there has to be a reason. You might be onto something with Ben being there as a child (and maybe even a little Sun too)....but it didn't stop Locke and crew from traveling to times where they were on the Island as past selves. I'm sure we'll find out!
I was thinking similar with the sub needing to pass through a window...i think i mentioned it in the blog...if not i meant to! I think we need to uncover how water vessels come and go to the island and if it differs from the Planes. Because we know you can take certain bearings to LEAVE the island via boat. Should be interesting!
Thanks again for the blog props and keep checking in!
Oh WOW another great episode.Regarding Sayid , I agree it will be difficult to aasimilate Sayid into Dharma, unless..... Litte Ben helps him escape thinking that he is a hostile and Sayid joins Richard Alpert and he is part of the purge (crazy thoughts).
According to what we see in previous episodes, Ethan works for Ben, so he obviously was part of the planning of the purge. So did he killed his mom , because we know that Horace's body was on the pit, but we don't see Amy's.
It is true that most of the time the smoke monster appears when Chritian appears.I remember from oneof the early seasons that there is an episode where Locke looks into the monster and he says he sees beauty. Maybe the monster is Locke's soul. Crazy.
Anyway lots to talk about.
Tell me if I'm wrong but I gather that if Charlotte remembered seeing Daniel as a kid warning her to not come back to the island, then Ben must remember bringin Sayid a sandwich as a kid, and any other interactions they might have in the coming episodes.
Brendan, you would think that is the case...but remember when Desmond "suddenly got a memory" in the future? And Dan didn't remember meeting Desmond in the past until it happened? Do we say that this is the case because Desmond is SPECIAL?
For anyone who cares, "DHARMA LADY" by Geronimo Jackson is available free on iTunes LOL Well, if it's free, that's a whole other story!
Yea Desmond is special, and it would make sense that Ben would remember seeing the 06 in his past bc that would explain how he always has a plan and anticipates wuts going to happen and how he always has an angle, hes not that smart he just knows wuts going to happen.
If Widmore remembered meeting John Locke in the 1950s, I think Ben will remember meeting Sayid.
I know some have theorized that the baby from the season premiere is Miles. I must agree, I thought that was likely, but after last night's episode I'm beginning to rethink that theory.
My new thought is that the Chang baby is Sun. Therefore, Sun could not transport back to 1977 since she already existed on the island. Same with Ben (as we see younger Ben is on the island circa 1977).
I know some people may throw that out cause when the Losties were time traveling they traveled into times when they were already on the island. But I'd like to think that 1977 is different as the time isn't "skipping" as it was in previous episodes.
Was puzzled by the dock being there in 07 when Locke blew up the sub attached to said dock in 04. The dock looked unkempt in 07 - but shouldn't it have been in pieces?
Also - as the plane was coming in why was the radio tower running Hurley's number in 07 ? Rousseau's people change that in the late 80's to be her message, then the castaways shut that off to reach the freighter in early 05. So who turned that back on, and made it the original message ??
Did the past get changed and maybe Rousseau never get to change it ? Did the castaways never get to change it ?
Liz, it's a good theory...and good point about island not skipping in 77. But then who are Sun's parents that we've met off Island? Foster parents?
MJ - i just thought this dock was the dock where they brought Jack, Hurley, Sawyer and Kate in the season 2 finale. Do we know if that's the same dock where the sub comes? I guess it would make sense. I never really thought about it. lol
as for the numbers? well i couldn't tell if it was hurley saying the numbers again on this transmission. We don't even know 100% that it was Hurley when the French folk heard it. But it most likely will be.
All I know is...the producers have been pretty adamant in the past about not creating ALTERNATE TIMELINES....so I think they're going to stick to their "whatever happened happened"/ course correction plan. That's not saying people won't TRY to change the future. But, I just don't think they will contradict themselves in the end!
Great recap as usual Mike!
So first off - AWESOME that you caught the girl standing behind Sun b/c I saw that for a split second and was like did I just see that!?! LOL but yes it could be Claire, as she is Christian's travel companion buddy these days or could it be Charlotte? It looked like red hair to me.... She may be dead but her ghost can still hang out with Christian lol.
2 - yes lovin the Sawyer vs. Jack routine.... I mean it was like the producers nodding to us - like same ole group dynamics - pre-time travel.... But I think what's impt to note here is that remember when Jack was a child and he got beaten up by that bully for trying to save his friend and Christian told him he shouldn't have stepped in, that trying to be the hero has consequences and he's not hero-material..... And we know the island is not done with Jack... My guess is that coming back to the island.. as a WORKMAN and not the hero-saving surgeon really put him in his place that he needs to come down a few notches to learn some lessons and fulfill his actual destiny... and of course the exchange with LaFleur... I think Jack for once seemed relieved he didn't have to be the one coming up with the plans - and I like this new leader Sawyer has become. Jack always did react... Sawyer thinks.... and he is trying to save his buddies.
Now I think it was Liz who said we all thought Miles was Chang's baby but that it could be Sun and hence why she was not transported to 1977.... could be... I kinda like that idea....
I do believe this is how Ben got his info about everyone... I think he's been following everyone their whole lives... Whether it's a question of a new memory or not we shall see... I don't think it's a new memory... But I do think now, he doesnt have much control over everything.... there's been a shift.
So great to see Radzinsky!!!! Finally... he seems brilliant - perhaps his photographic memory plus helping build the model of the Swan is how he comes up with the Blast door map.... Still why would he commit suicide!?!? We know he edited the Swan orientation video - b/c I think one of them - Jack, Hurley, etc does get in there somehow! Maybe he committs suicide b/c he realizes he wants out of the time loop! I don't know if Hurley gives him the numbers - I think at this point Hurley wanting to save everyone will not want to perpetuate this "cycle" or what have you..... I think he will get it another way - perhaps as a clue by Chang for someone in the future to recreate Dharma?!?! I am stretching here I think....
Can't believe the baby is Ethan!! I was so sure it would be Jacob. But someone mentioned that would Ethan have to kill Horace or Amy like Ben killed his father to join the Hostiles/Others and I'm gonna say NO.... I think Ethan and his parents join the Hostiles - b/c the purge happens in '92 but they had been planning for awhile - maybe his parents also crossed over with Ben bringing Ethan with them who is at that point 10-12 years old...
Also I do think Jack will run into Ben's dad as they play Janitor together...
I, too was puzzled with the dock being there, I thought it was blown up.... I dont knw if it was the one where the sub comes - b/c this dock seemed so close to Dharma-ville where Sun, Frank and Christian had their talk.... And Chang asked Jack who was his driver who drove him to the camp site.... So I think the sub has to land at another location - perhaps another station?!?
Anyways I could talk forever...
Thanks again Mike!
Mona
I think that Ben does have a memory of the O6 from the past. Perhaps he is even told as a child about the crash and losties time traveling. This would seem to explain the lists of "good people" that the Others made after the 815 crash. Ben knows who needs to be kept alive (good people) so that they can flash back to Dharma and play out their role.
I am also wondering if Ethan is kidnapped by the Others as a baby, which may explain why his last name is different from his parents. We know Dharma people could have babies in 77, but maybe the Others were already having trouble.
I didn't notice this - but have read it on other sites.
Dharma camp that Christian met Sun and Frank in looked very Dharma-fied still. The Others had taken down the old pictures and signs for processing and such when they lived there. So in 07 how was the camp Dharma-like again ??
MJ,
Yeah, its almost like they are not in 07 or that the present has been altered by these new events taking place in the past.
Perhaps the plane and its peeps traveled back in time to just after the purge. There was a flash. This is so confusing???
yeah but the titles kept saying "30 years earlier" and "30 years later"
I gotta tell you, if the future is being altered leading to mass confusion, I'm not going to be happy about it! It would mean the producers have strayed from their vision or have mislead us for 2-2.5 years! I'll have to go back and check out the DHARMA center.
Another question that Jensen talked about was how would our 815ers that lived in the barracks for a couple weeks not have seen tose pictures?
here's a thought...it HAS been 3 years since they left....is there any chance that DHARMA somehow Returned to the Island during that time period?
oh boy..it's getting confusing!
Thanks everyone for the props as always!
ugh typos...i hate them! tose=those! lol (yeah...i'm sure that was obvious!)
Kate's job is an auto mechanic, with Juliet, and Hurley is a Chef. They were stitched on their jumpsuits.
i figured that about kate from the
*SPOILER*
previews for next week
*end spoiler*
But did you actually see that on the uniforms in this episode? Hurley as a cook would be a good time! Maybe we will learn about the DHARMA Food drops via HIS orientation! lol
Long time reader, first time poster... :)
It would make sense to me that Sun couldn't land on the island if there was another "her" there, but it doesn't seem logical that she would be Chang's baby. Chang is a Chinese name and he is likely of Chinese descent, while the Paik family is Korean. It wouldn't believe that Mr. Paik, as powerful, arrogant, elitist and devoted to family honor as he is, would adopt a female Chinese baby from some Dharma hippies.
Did anyone notice that while the flash was going on in flight 316, the camera view began rolling upside down?
I think, correct me if I'm wrong, that this is the first time that filming technique is used.
As I watched it, I immediately thought of the reports of what happens in the Bermuda Triangle. Pilots have said they don't know what's up or down. That would go along perfectly with the comments that have been talked about on the vortex(s).
And if my memory is correct, I recall that at the Lamp Post station, one grouping of the pendulum markings, a vortex, seemed to be in the vicinity of, if not exactly in the Bermuda Triangle, because they were to the east of off-shore Florida.
As for the sub getting to the island, all we know is that the recruits are drugged before getting there. I believe it's so that they don't find out that to get there, their jumping through space, and in some cases time. Yes, they're given coordinates, but in following those coordinates, they go through/into the vortex to get to the island.
To Anonymous - agree that Sun being Chang's baby is not that likely.
I didn't see Kate's or Hurley's job description on the uniforms, and I missed some of the preview for next week. But yeah - Hurley as a chef will be classic.
Agree that this show will get a whole lot more confusing if things start changing due to the actions of our castaways. LOL
I just can't think why Dharma signs and pics would be put back though. Cause it's not just the one building that Christian took them into, their was the Processing sign on the outside as well. Unless this is somehow part of Christians magic ? He's showing what should have been had the purge not happened ???
Now my head hurts. LOL
Just watched the scene again where they were taking the picture. It's a male, bald, with dark eyes, in a dharma jumpsuit, and short, probably the reason for why you couldn't see him the first time. Once the camera pans to the right you can see the man for a brief second or two until Phil the security guy steps forward to give instructions and blocks your view of the bald guy.
He looks like a bald Richard Alpert if you ask me. I know, sounds crazy...
But he has changed hairstyles before. Maybe in '77 he was hairLESS! Lol :0)
I thought about that too as christian "magic" or smokey manifestations. we do know smokey was in the area afterall!
interesting stuff with the bermuda triangle Victor!
and agree that Chang baby is probably not Sun. there's too much weight in the story with her off-island parents.
Official LOST Podcast is up. Some interesting tidbits on there. The last one is a semi-spoiler (name of the season finale)...so i will indicate as such!
- Charlotte's Birthdate. The producers admitted this was a screw-up...the original visioning of Charlotte was for an older actress to play her. Apparently, Rebecca Mader changed the date on set in season 4 because she didn't want to be playing an woman so much older than what she was. But the writers had to stick with the story they had in mind. The acknolwedged the mistake and said it should have been caught in editing, but it wasn't.
- Producers are going to pick from fan suggestions on the codename for the big finale scene (i.e. bagel, challah, rattlesnake in the mailbox, frozen donkey wheel). They are going to pick one from the suggestions on the podcast next week. should be a good time!
- they pretty much indicated that behind the concrete in the Swan hatch was an ENERGY source as specified in season 2. So the H bomb may be something different altogether as some have suggested. but that being said.
- The name of the season finale is a doozy and was hinted by the producers to represent exactly what is mentioned and will air on May 13th as a 3 hour event (2 hours worth of new material).......name is......
******** SPOILER BELOW***********
THE INCIDENT!!!!!!!!
**********END SPOILER**************
Are you counting the days as quickly as I am now? I'm ready to take May 14th off to write the recap! lol
I have to agree with Daniel Faraday that, "Whatever happened, happened."
I think that we just never saw all of the buildings in New Otherton, and that the processing station (or whatever it was called) is a building that The Others didn't use. We only saw that building in the 70's in flashback, and then last night 30 years later, so of course it looked dilapidated. We only saw the building that Karl was in, with room 23 once as Alex tricked Aldo, so there could be other places that Dharma used in the day that we have not seen. I just don't buy the idea that things changed and that the purge never happened. Not when we have been told all along that the timeline is the timeline is the timeline.
What happens, happened, period.
The 815'ers are repeating what happened, it is the first time they are conscious of it, but it always happened.
I think that Jack had every right to be questioning LeFluer about what the heck was going on, asking about Sayid, but was WAAAYY out of line bitching at Jim for reading a book. My opinion of Jack people like him has always been - just because you are bossy, that doesn't make you the boss. I see that behavior often, and it is annoying. You see that kind of behavior on comment boards, where some folks talk down to others or correct them condescendingly, these are the type of people that see themselves as natural leaders, when they are just pushy, bossy pains.
I missed the figure behind Sun, good catch!
Great blog as always, thanks so much for going to the trouble to do it!
Where do YOU think that Daniel is?
Jennifer
Hey, new to the blog, but not the show. I have spent days looking into the black smoke and have found a lot of interesting stuff. The most interesting is that the Smoke can take the shape of anything it chooses, and that Christian may in fact be the smoke monster. We always hear whispering when the smoke monster appears too, so last night's encounter solidified this theory in my opinion. Great blog, can't wait until next week!!
Mike 5,Great recap again.
I have a few ideas to throw out, first why Sun is not with the other 815ers. This may be out there but could it be because she has Jin's Ring? something from the island "a left behinder". They made a big deal about it being the focus of that first camera shot last night when they showed Sun on the beach. Also the only other people to handle the Ring are Ben and JL who took it thru time.
Second, Could the DI cabins that Sun and Frank came upon mean that the purge was prevented by our 815ers? Maybe it is shambles because of some other path of destruction such as "the war" they keep talking about.
Third, my thoughts on Ben remembering the Sayid and the other 815ers. I dont think he would and some have suggested this is how he knows so much about them. He is a 12 year old kid. The 815ers are being secretive about who they are so unless something is leaked about them to Ben in future episodes I am not sure how he would have gained personal knowledge about them.
As for Widmore remembering JL when he was 17. Widmore may have lied to JL about remembering him, He may have had the same dream that JL had 4 days before they met as the time flashed on the island.
Last, is the runway. If we have all of these story lines in differnt time zones, Could there not be one going on ahead of time we see now? Maybe this is not the first time the Airja airline has landed on the island. Maybe it crashed before but there were survivors and One of them went back in time and told Ben where to build the runway.. so that on this next trip, there would be survivors. There had to be a purpose for the runway to be built. Sun and Frank had to go on this journey Christian speaks of.
I swear I dont to drugs!!!!lol
I like your idea about Jin's ring HurleyAtMe. It was definitely the focal point of that camera shot.
I agree that the notion of Sun being Chang's baby is slightly far-fetched, but I still find it really intruiging. Regardless, I think that baby is somebody we know! Miles, Sun, who knows! Lostpedia lists Chang's child as a "son" so who knows.
Young Ben's possible encounters with the "future" losties would definitely help answer why Ben "knows" so much. I'm sure we get more information in future episodes.
first off, WOW, what an AMAZING and INTENSE episode!!!!!!!!
i don't think that sun is chang's baby because of how much of a story she has with her parents and also just because her dad does not seem like the type to adopt a chinese baby. but i really want to know why she is not back in the 70's!
i am also wondering what happened to daniel! i really liked his character, and want to find out more about what he had to do with dharma.
i kinda like sawyer being leader rather then jack, i have always liked sawyer better. and it was so ttrue about jack reacting instead of thinking, he always was quick to react instead of thinking things through.
OH MY GOODNESS! i cannot believe that ethan is amy and horace's son! when i heard that i was in shock! i was also in shock when i heard radzinzky! I was like "om my gosh!finally!" i have been waiting forever to find out more about him, and now finally we got to see what he looked like and what he's like! i can't wait to go deeper into the history of dharma! oh yeah, and i really don't think that things changed because the left behinder's and o6 are back in time, i just think that house just wasn't seen. isn't possible that they didn't show us all the houses?
i don't think kate's name was mistakenly not on the list, i think juliet purposely did it, just to scare her. and it was really funny the looks they gave each other, the type of smile you give when you really hate someone and your gonna make sure that they don't steal your man from you,lol.
good catch on the girl behind sun, i did not notice that! and for some reason i also did not notice the numbers being played on the radio, i think i missed part of the first couple minutes. i dont remember the co-pilot saying all those things,oh well, i'll just have to watch it again!
great blog, btw!!!
oh yeah, the episode title is amazing! i cannot wait to watch it!! so intriguing!!!!!
Did we ever find out exactly what went on between Kate and Ben when Ben took her from the cage, dressed her in that sundress and had that lunch on the beach under the tent? If I recall correctly she was hand-cuffed and had lots of cuts and bruises. I can't remember their whole exchange but I was always left feeling like something significant happened between them.
Hey all...great theories, one more thing that we need to all ponder...where is locke now? he magically woke from the dead after the plane crashed, and it made us think they were back in time because when they crashed on the island it was BEFORE JL died therefore he could live...or he should be a ghost like christian (in the hald dead half alive world)...but now it seems Ajira is in 2007...so how is JL alive??
Those "Lists" we kept hearing about in early seasons are starting to come full circle. When Michael releases Ben he is told he has to bring certain people. The people he ends up bringing are Kate, Sawyer, Jack and Hurley - all four of which are currently in Dharmaville. This can't be a coincidence.
Then there's Sayid and Jin, who didn't end up on the dock but were anchored on the boat awaiting Jack's signal. (This is also when we first saw the famous statue). Sun was also with them and she is the only one isn't in '77, although apparently she is about to do something to get here there.
It also makes me think that something has happened with Sun to change things. She had turned into a bit of a shady character once she was off the island. So I wonder if we're going to get a shocking reveal of something Sun did. Or it could be as simple as Sun was indeed on the island as a little girl in '77. But some reason that idea just doesn't feel right.
My other thought is on Ethan. I believe the idea that only native "Others" could come and go from the island could still be valid. Ethan was in fact born on the island and that may be the only requirement to getting whatever special privileges the natives have. Remember that the doctor at Ethan's birth said they always ship the women off to the mainland to give birth.
This could also be why Ethan ends up with the Others at the purge. He may have been taken by the Others shortly after birth or the Others may have simply been aware that Ethan was born on the island and thus spared him during the purge. Ben was certainly old enough at Ethan's birth to have given Richard this info. Heck, it may even have been the catalyst for the purge. Maybe the birth of a Dharma child on the island was a violation of the truce. Maybe a native baby would have been able to pass along info about the island to Dharma that Richard's crew could not afford to let them have.
I'm with those who say that Sun isn't Chang's baby.
First of all, as has been pointed out, Sun is Korean, Chang is Chinese. Sun looks very distinctly Korean (as well she should, she's played by a Korean actress), so I don't think she's Chinese without us knowing it. Miles, on the other hand, is Chinese. I recall them saying so in one episode. I have to wonder if he could be the baby though, since he already seems to be graying. If he were the baby I imagine he'd be younger. Then again, Ethan looked older than he apparently was, and we don't know exactly when Chang's baby was born. Either that or Miles is Lost's answer to Taylor Hicks. Competing with American Idol isn't easy, you know!
Second of all, don't we see Sun's birthdate as 1980? I believe when Sun encountered Widmore at the airport we saw them pull up a screen with her information on it and that was what her birthdate was listed as. I don't think her reason for staying in 2007 is because she already exists on the island in 1977. The "Jin's ring" theory is interesting though.
I like Sawyer as the new leader too. It's funny how much the character of Sawyer has evolved over the course of the series. In the beginning he was this rebel who didn't get along with anyone, and now he's a caring guy who looks out for them all. Who would've thought?
I can't wait for them to explain what the deal is with Christian. He's been a mystery from the beginning. We probably won't find out until the last season though.
I'm surprised Ethan was the baby. The possibility that he was kidnapped is believable, since we know the Others believe they're giving children a better life by stealing them. It's also possible he had a similar experience as Ben. Horace and Amy seem to be somewhat dysfunctional, so perhaps he ran off because he didn't like living with them. I doubt he was involved with the Purge though, as he would've been 15 at the time.
Hi
I want to know why hurley doesn't have his headphones and discman back with him this time. I used to love in the first season when he put the music on at the end of some epsiodes.
Mark - Didn't the batteries die on that thing?
the batteries died but he could have brought a new one when they all went back to the island
Pokey
that was a great point on the list. I went back and watched parts of espisode, 3 minutes in Season 1 and you are on it. That has to be related some way. I tell you something else strange on that episode i never noticed. When they bring Walt in to see Michel, he is being held by an other. He breaks free in runs up to Michael and whispers in his ear , "help me, Please" It sounded very similar to the plea in the cabin Jacob made to Locke.
I'm for the theory that Ethan gets kidnapped by the Others as a baby. How ironic would that be considering he was the one who kidnapped Claire/attempted to kidnap Aaron?! I do think that him being the baby is kind of a let down. Hopefully they will do something interesting with him to make up for it (like him getting kidnapped).
Creepy about the girl in back of Sun. I agree that it looks like Charlotte but most likely its Claire. The pic is weird though, and I thought Claire wasn't supposed to be on cast again until next season? What are they trying to get across to us with that?
Hi! I just started reading your blog this season, and boy am I loving it! Now my husband keeps asking me what everything means while we're watching on Weds nights, I feel so smart! So thanks Mike!
But anyway, did anyone notice that when Sun finally catches up to Ben in the jungle on the way to the outriggers? Ben stops and takes off the sling he has on his arm, and kind of moves his arm around like it has been suddenly healed. and then throws the sling to the side. Very JL being able to walk and Rose's cancer dissapearing. Just thought it was interesting...
oops, bad spelling. Lindsey, I did NOT notice that! Good catch!
My favaorite line in this episode is from Hurley when they are taking the picture. Everyone one says "NAMASTAE" and Hurley says, "NAMA---WHAT"
Lindsey
that is a nice observation on ben, i saw it too. but you know with ben, i thought he may have faking the injury for some reason. You remember in the past season he did not heal as fast as JL. did. but still you may be on to somehting.
I ran across a rather intriguing JL theory, thought I would post it for your consideration.
Basically John Locke from season one might have been future Locke. Season one JL seemed to know more than the other 815ers at the time. He acted, occasionally, as if he knew Jack, Kate, Sawyer, etc. much better than if he had just met them. Possibly he was there to guide them along and he seemed to have an agenda.
Examples:
The memorable scene when Loche is banging in desperation on the hatch he says: I've done everything you asked me to do, why are you doing this to me?
- At the time it seemed logical that he was speaking to The Island, which had been giving him visions, but could he have been referring to someone specific who had told him what to do.
He tells Jack that the plane crash was not a coincidence and that they were brought to the island, it was destiny. Jack tells Locke that he doesn't believe in Destiny. Locke responds by saying: Yes you do, you just don't know it yet.
- this one really seems to imply Locke knows more than he should at the time
He also said this wasn't supposed to happen when the numbers didn't get input into the Swan computer.
- not season one, I know, but same line of reasoning
It caught my attention and I have not heard this theory before. Opinions?
Everyone keeps talking about the woman seen over Sun's shoulder when Christian was showing her the picture. But I noticed a figure peering out a window as Sun and Frank were strolling through the abandoned compound just before they encountered Christian. Maybe one was Charlotte and the other Claire. Did I see this or is it time for that eye surgery I have been contemplating?
A thought came to me that I don't think has been addressed here yet. If Sawyer, Jin, Juliet, Jack, Kate and Hurley are part of the '77 D.I., then will they all actually be gassed by Ben 15 years later?
And FWIW, could it be possible that Baby Chang would actually turn out to be the dude that Sun had the affair with?
Finally, I appreciate what Lindsey brought up earlier: What was it with Ben removing his sling? For a guy that gets beats up time and time again---not to mention going through serious back surgery---he really heals well doesn't he?
i don't know if anyone here already mentioned it but i just have to point this out - in this episode we were able to see the Ajira crash from frank's point of view. they were flying and it looked like it was AT NIGHT, then came the flash and jack, kate, hurley etc vanished. then you could see it was DAY LIGHT when frank and his co-pilot landed the plain on that weird landing strip.
i think this shows there was another alteration in time. we know it's 2007 when they crash so they probably didn't go back to the past, but maybe it's 2007 in an alternative time frame.
also you could hear someone on the radio saying the numbers "15, 16" while they were crashing. it didn't really sound like hugo to me but it was definitely a male voice. what about that?
oh, and another thing.
about the woman behind sun. there's no way it was some production error because they could have easily edited that out.
at first i thought it was claire cuz she hangs out with christian, but the hair looks more like charlotte's which could also be possible cuz both she and christian are dead.
did you also notice in that scene it looked like christian was talking directly to sun and ignoring frank?
Mike,
Great recap as usual!! I have watched the show from day 1 but since I have started reading these recaps/comments I have probably done more thinking about a show than ever before.
Liking the idea about the H bomb. A buried and leaking bomb would provide tremendous energy and probably be able to substain the output for years (50 +). Or maybe that is what activated the latent energy on the island and was the reason the DA came to the island in the first place (doubtful but..)
I also think that Jin's ring somehow plays a part in their reunion.
Hard to believe that 10 year old Ben is already working for the others....has he already met Richard when we see him with Sayid?
Even if Ben is special, 10 year olds should not be able to carry such baggage...right?
Prediction....Phil, the security guy will somehow find out the identities of Sawyer, Jack,etc. He seems to be suspicious already. I fully expected a shot of him hiding behind a tree (after the James comment) observing Jack seeing/hugging Juliet again and/or when Sawyer waved to Kate and then Phil going "hmmmmm what going on here?"
whew that's a lot of comments! lol Hey all, just wanted to let you know I haven't disappeared. Just had a busy weekend. But Ive been following along and it is a great discussion you guys have going on. Thanks as always for the compliments! I'm just gonna hit a few points I saw in the last few comments:
Takimoshi...great observations! I actually discussed a few of those in the blogs...like the night turning to daylight. I looked it more as the PLANE FLASHED as well as the people. So it made me start to think that maybe the island never actually does move POSITIONS (just in time)...but things move TO the Island. (like the nigerian plane flew over a window that took it to the island....and maybe something similar with the black rock and 815) Just a thought though. I was briefly thinking that since we saw all the DHARMA stuff around the barracks still that maybe Sun, Frank and crew went to a time shortly AFTER the purge. But since we already saw Juliet and crew on the beach with the ruins of the 815ers camp...we know it has to be after. That is unless...time flashes for them at some point too.....maybe when Sun and Frank take their "journey" Christian speaks of. There does seem to be a missing piece of the puzzle there!
I agree that the numbers on the radio do not sound like Hurley in this instance...but still am wondering what that's all about!
Mike the plumber...i think that Ben HAS met Richard at this point...I'm thinking that he has a "curiosity" of the hostiles/others....which draws him to talk to Sayid. I would agree he probably isn't "WORKING" for them just yet....as we already know...Richard tells Ben at that age "it's too soon" or something like that.
interesting thought on Phil being involved!
as for the comments on the purge?....well i'm guessing somehow Jack, Sawyer and all 1977 visitors will get out of that time period before the purge ever happens. Considering how quickly time normally passes on this show...I'm going to guess they're not going to pull any "15 years later" stunts on us and then have our heroes wearing makeup for the rest of the show to show us how much they aged for the rest of the series lol We'll see though!
just wanted to throw in my 2 cents briefly...i'll try to chime in more later! Keep up the great discussion!
I re-watched yesterday and there definitely is someone in the background behind Sun after smokey blew that door open. Creepy.
Also noticed that Ajira was flying at night and right after the O5 flash out it is bright daylight.
Maybe Sun had to be left behind as part of the plan to get the rest of them back to 07 ?
It's possible that the processing building we saw was not used by the others when they lived in Dharmaville - but seems unlikely to me. No - I think something us uup with this.
And Daniel's statment - what ever happened, happened - I'm taking that to mean that you have to move on and forge a life. There is no way to infiltrate this group and not affect change in any way. So it is what it is.
What if the O5 coming here and stopping the purge IS the course correction ? Maybe the purge was the mistake and they have to go fix it.
And someone brought up when Kate was first taken hostage by Ben - very good point. We did always feel that things happened that we were not shown.
And the list - great catch. All this time I sorta wrote it off as they basically jsut chose all the main characters (besides Locke) for that 'caper' - but now it does have some shading to it.
I kinda like the idea that Jin's ring is what kept Sun in 2007. There has to be some explanation at least, and not just "because that's the way it had to be." Honestly, I'm already a little frustrated at the liberties taken with some of what "had" to happen that hasn't been properly explained... It was implied to both Jack and Locke that "all" of them had to go back for it to work. But then apparently Aaron and Walt didn't really have to go. And Ben saying that once you leave the island via the donkey wheel, you can't come back, when he obviously just did (sure, he could have been lying to Locke, but why bother?). Also (I think it's been mentioned here before), when Jack told Kate at the end of Season 3 that they had to go back because all sorts of bad things happened because they left (I'm paraphrasing)-- what really happened because they left? From what I can tell of the time traveling/flashing (which was the only really "bad" thing) happened because Ben moved the island, not because the O6 left.
Sorry to complain so much -- just needed to get that off my chest! :)
Love the blog! Way better than most others I've seen out there.
- MC
MOST blogs??? Which ones are possibly better?!! lol just kidding! Thanks for the compliments MC.
I totally understand your frustrations...I'd add onto that the fact that now that we've seen Locke/Jack's off-island discussion...he never even brings up the fact that "TERRIBLE THINGS HAPPENED" to the people left behind. He just mentioning something about helping them. I guess we're not entirely sure that Kate and Jack didn't have a discussion after Jack and Locke talked blah blah blah....i'm willing to accept crap like that. With Ben lying? It's just his way....i don't think they would've seriously written into the Season Finale about Ben saying he can't go back to the Island...when they may not have even planned on bringing him back to the Island in season 5. I think that was all planned....it went into Ben's "LIE" about him needing to be the one that turned the wheel.
I agree, there has to be some explanation of why certain people ended up in certain times. And I think that will be answered. But I'm not sold on the fact that it's because maybe SUN was on the island in 1977 already. I like the idea of the ring....because we already know that ring had been flashing with Jin. So maybe the ring took on some kind of property where it could not return to 1977. That doesn't explain Ben though or even Frank.
MJ - i'm still very weary on supporting any theory that has the O5 changing anything that has already happened on the Island. There is a CLEAR and DISTINCT history on the Island and I don't think the writers/producers want to mess with it creating an alternate future timeline. I think this will all play into us learning what these "RULES" are. There is the fact that Widmore somehow "changed the rules" by killing Alex. This expression takes on a whole new meaning with our knowledge of Time Travel. There's also Desmond changing his visions of the future by saving Charlie (but with him ultimately dying anyway).
I dunno...it's definitely ideas worth pondering...because there is enough evidence there to suggest that this MIGHT be the direction they're heading...but based on the BIBLE handed down by Damon and Carlton, I just wouldn't hold much weight with it. Things are intentionally vague for the sake of future stories to be told right now. But it will all become clear soon enough!
I think Whatever Happened Happened...means...that if they Oceanic 5 are there now...they were ALWAYS there. That is always how it happened. The one difference? Desmond...he actually went back and relived something differently in season 3 and season 4 (the rules don't apply to him.)
I'm all over the place...let's move onto other things!
Agree about Season 3 after Kate was returned to the cages....definitely stuff missing there. Whether it was important enough in the producers' minds for us ever to find out? Remains to be seen!
and yes..good call with the LIST. I watched one of those dreadful episodes of season 3 the other day. Episode 6 (a better one) "I DO" and remember when Pickett mentions that Jack isn't even on Jacob's list? What is THAT all about based on what we now know???!
love your blog!
what ever happened is about to happen.
Thanks!
Interesting scoop from the producers yet again on Charlotte's age. An online feud started after their initial comments and they have taken it back. The AGE error is strictly on the side of the Lost production team now.
Read Article Here
About the terrible things that happened. Remember that every red shirt from flight 815 was either killed by flaming arrows or captured by the other thanks to Sawyers meet me at the river comment. So a lot of people died after the O6 left.
with all this talk about jins ring it would be intresting to see if charlies ring the one he left on/in arons bassanett could come into play somehow.
good call on the red shirts stedman...which again makes me wonder where Rose and Bernard (and Vincent) are! Locke also had knowledge of the Time Travel sickness that was going to kill Charlotte and eventually all of them which can be lumped into terrible things! This still doesn't explain the fact that Locke never actually talks to Jack about these "terrible things" happening. There's a chance Jack has talked to Kate since then but all Locke pretty much says is to Kate is that their friends are in trouble or something like that. Of course, we jumped into that scene, mid-conversation. Jack/Locke's conversation we saw the entire thing.
Like I said though, I'm willing to accept that for the sake of telling their story. I guess the concept is there....and that's good enough!
But we better find out where Rose and Bernard are before the end of this season! lol
For those of you who like a bit info before a new episode, check out Lost_on_ABC's twitter.
http://twitter.com/Lost_on_ABC
True enough re: the red shirts, time travel disease, etc. These things happened after the O6 left, but not (as far as I can tell) *because* they left. If they hadn't been on the helicopter, then presumably they just would have been on the island with the red shirts and time travel disease. I know it's maybe a question of semantics, but I'm still trying to figure out what actually happened "because" they left.
And yes, if we don't see Rose, Bernard and Vincent soon, I'm going to be even more irritated! ;)
Well supposedly the time skipping around is because "locke" was supposed to turn the wheel...and not Ben. I think either way....they were all supposed to end up in the DHARMA 70's. Why? that is yet to be seen...but I'm guessing they are involved in events in the Island's past that makes it necessary for them to be there to keep history as it's supposed to be. But good point...did all of this stuff happen because they left? We know that they need to be back on the Island....that much is certain...but can the bad things be blamed on the Oceanic 6 leaving? I dunno.....we already know Ben is a liar...and he is the one that said it happened because they left. We were also told by Christian Shephard that it happened because Ben turned the wheel and not Locke. So...someone is again lying or not telling the whole truth!
Here's something that will really bake your noodle...what if LOCKE turned the wheel and not Ben? what would have been different? Locke would have been off of the island at some point in the future...would he still have tried to bring the Oceanic 6 back? Would this really have changed everyone left behind flashing and charlotte and red shirts dying?
And is it even worth considering "WHAT IFs" when we already know "what happened...happened?" (or at least we think we know!) Yikes....there's that head of mine spinning again!
Mike V:
'This still doesn't explain the fact that Locke never actually talks to Jack about these "terrible things" happening. '
But let's not forget your very own obsession with Jack's beard and the way it looked when we see him talk to Locke and the way it looks when Jack is reading the obit. Time passes between those two - so maybe there will be a whole other conversation between Locke and Jack.
Very true MJ...I had thought of that...I guess just based on what Ben said to Locke "whatever you said to him must've worked"...that we were meant to link Locke bringing up Christian to Jack as the "SELLING POINT" But yeah, I guess it's not a stretch to think we might see another scene between them! I just don't know how much more material they can cover than they've already covered over 4 seasons. Locke "I LOVE FAITH! PLEASE BELIEVE ME!" Jack "I LOVE SCIENCE and I'm SOOOO RIGHT!" LOCKE "did i not mention last time that very bad things happened? They're all gonna die!!!!" lol
so here's a thought on DHARMAVILLE that could be quite possible. We know how Jacob and/or Christian like to reside in that crazy cabin right? We know that Cabin likes to appear out of nowhere and could possibly be an apparition of the Smoke Monster. Well who's to say that the DHARMA Processing Facility isn't the same? And that the DHARMA signs and such outside in the BARRACKS area aren't more of that? It could be one big Smokey Illusion! We already know Smokey is present and flying all about the area. Who knows? It may have been hanging out in that area ever since Ben unleashed it in the Barracks to wipe out Keamy's crew.
The pictures were clearly there for Christian to get his point across...and let's be honest...Christian having died yet still walking around and talking to people isn't the most REALISTIC LIFE EXPERIENCE! So who is to say that the DHARMA Processing Center is any different?
WHATEVER HAPPENED....HAPPENED! I'm sticking with TEAM DARLTON and their mighty cohort DANIEL FARADAY on this one! lol
what if bad things had nothing to do with the O6 leaving and that was only said to get them back. and what if the only reason they had to go back was because someone knew that they were back in the 70's before and need to be there in every "history". so to get them to come back to where they are supposed to be, because someone remembers them being there before and what ever happened happened, they need to be told that bad things are happening because they left.
does that make sense? ( i kinda felt like i was just rambling so.... lol)
I wonder if that whole thing with Jacob whispering to Locke was completely set up by Ben. Like maybe he knew the whole time that Jacob was going to say something and just pretended not to hear him.
You guys probably discussed that already after that episode but I just thought of it lol.
Mike 5
I love the new DI Processing center being a version of Jacobs crazy cabin. The same thing crossed my mind. If this is the case you know Locke or Ben will be visiting that cabin soon for more direction. I bet it doesnt look the same for them. What do you think?
Also, Mark ,thanks for reminding me about Charlie's Ring, I like your idea, I had forgot about that. Rings are going to play a role at some point.
i hope claire finds charlie's ring. i was so sad when she didn't notice it and left it at the camp.
I miss charlie so much. he was my favorite character and i was so sad when he died!
New Doc Jensen!
Anyone else think that young Ben did NOT give Sayid a sandwich?
Also, I think everyone is way to fixated on Jin's ring. I would be shocked if it turned out to be anything of consequence. Sun is looking at it because she misses her husband. She, Locke, Ben and Frank are in 2007 for a reason, to be explained of course.
~Tim
What if Sun is on the island in the 70's. Could she be the baby that Pierre Chang was taking care of in the beginning of the episode where he visits the cave where he runs into Daniel? The idea that Locke and crew ran into their past selves would still make sense seeing as how the time warps were messed up and Locke had to fix the wheel from skipping around.
This was my first time to read the blog, and I find it extremely helpful in remembering all the information from seasons past. Great work!!
Maybe I should read all the comments before I post!
Ben...I'm glad you found the blog and are finding it helpful! Although I still don't like this whole "Sun is on the island in the past and that's why she didn't flash" frame of mind. I'm fine if Sun has been to the island before and IS there in the 70's. But I think we've just seen enough to show that our islanders from the future can coexist with themselves in the PAST based on the one flash where Sawyer witnesses the birth of Aaron and Locke avoids going to talk to himself at the hatch.
Tim...I agree with the rings and your thoughts. A reason will be fully explained to why they are in different times...but I don't necessarily think it has anything to do with the rings. I think we already got the payoff for Charlie's ring from his flashback...where his brother Liam says that it "belongs in the family" Him leaving it with Aaron was signifying that he considered Aaron and Claire family. awwwwwwww Case closed!
any more significance with rings? We tread closely to the "ONE RING TO RULE THEM ALL!!!" (Lord of the Rings)....And we already know that the producers are Star Wars nerds! lol
Anyway...we'll see!
4.5 hours until showtime!!
Holy crap!
Still trying to figure this out... Why is Sun still on the plane? Why didn't she go back to '77? You say she's still there "as expected", please help! Thanks!
Mike, I don't have an answer for you. lol The only reason I said "as expected" because we were told by Caesar (to Locke) that the pilot left with a Woman on one of the boats. We assumed the woman was Sun because Kate was in 1977. We don't know WHY Sun is in a different time period than the rest of them though. I would think that explanation is still forthcoming!
Like you Mike, I absolutely loved this episode. In fact, it was the most enjoyable ep I've seen in a long time. It may not have been the most exciting or provided (or answered) the most mysteries, but it just moved along at a brisk pace and was fun to watch. I don't know how to put it exactly, but there was something conventional (gasp!) about the structure of this episode that made it a pleasure to follow and easy to enjoy.
The way it incorporated the mythology into the interactions and dialogue of the characters provided me with the most clarity on "this is what the show is about" than any episode since the first season. Perhaps it was the fact that they didn't focus on one character, but instead took on the whole group.
Although it may have felt odd to others, I was happy that Kate, Jack and Hurley quickly internalized the fact that they were in the year 1977. Seeing the Flame station and the model for the Swan station and even Radzinsky having a map of all the stations and calling the other stations about a plane sighting helped ground me in the timeline of the island, Dharma and the Others (Hostiles). As you mentioned, Mike, "reading that map again so many seasons later is a pretty good time! Things seem so much clearer!" That's for sure!
The reunion of main characters on the beach was also a pretty good time! I also loved how Sawyer was so straightforward with his explanation of the situation. Basically, "It's 1977. Jin and I have been working for Dharma for 3 years. Stay put here and I'll figure out how to make it safe for you." And for ONCE, Jack and Kate listened and didn't fly off on their own agenda!
Could it be that trust is finally building within the group? Well, based on the later discussion Jack had with Sawyer in Sawyer's house (when Sawyer told Jack, "Thinking is how I saved your ass today and how I'll save Sayid tomorrow"), I'd have to say that the buddy-buddy trust between Sawyer and Jack was short-lived!
Mike, you made a great point: "Ben is aware of Sayid, Jack, Kate and Hurley from 1977. Did the 2004/2007 version of Ben have this knowledge? If so, then...he always knew that they had to go back to the Island if they left." Because Ben knows, and we know, that we can't change the future, even if the future throws us into the past!
Haha, Mike, in this recap (and in a scattered few others before), you mention "those dreadful 6 episodes" at the beginning of season 3, which I rather liked and you also liked after rewatching. Let's face it, you probably enjoy rewatching all the episodes, even the weaker ones, but it's interesting to read what you thought of things (both present and past) in the heat of the moment in the recaps.
By the way, I can't read your spoilers by highlighting them in the comments thread, though I could always read them in the recap section. Is that just me or is that a common issue?
THIS is the episode that I truly realized how much fun it would be to rewatch season 5 and have more context on the previous episodes of the season. I'm totally charged up about finding out whatever happens next! And I sure hope Sun will find her way back to Jin, even if she has to go back 30 years to do it!
Great observations Miles! The next few episodes might explain to you what Ben's knowledge truly is. lol
Funny that I mentioned the "dreaded 6 eps". I remember enjoying them at the time I watched them, but then in hindsight remembering not much happened. But, then in rewatching I found all new relevance. So, yeah...it's funny how opinions can change when the complete story is out there.
I didn't black out any spoilers in the comments...I just put a lot of spaces to allow people to skip past it in case they didn't want to read it. :-)
Another brilliant episode! Not gonna ramble too much, just to say I loved every second of it. I love seeing Sawyer in charge, and Jack hating it at the same time :) As someone mentioned in the comments above, boy, did Sawyer's character evolved! From the first season, where he was all like every man for himself, stealing food, meds, etc... to this guy from season 4, who would probably give his life for his friends. And as already mentioned, he seems a much wiser and composed as aleader than Jack ever was.
Love square is back again, I just hate Sawyer will probably ditch Juliet for Kate who will eventually ditch him for Jack :)
All in all, another great episode!
Hello again Tarantino!
Yes, Sawyer certainly evolved over the course of 5 seasons, but I certainly wasn't counting out Jack out at this point in the show. Jack has a bit of a different character evolution than Sawyer and it's a slow burn over the series....taking him from highs and showing us his lowest point (the FlashForward and his off-island time)....I won't say where it's going, but it's certainly a fun arc to watch!
No comment on the Love Square! :-)
Loved this episode as well. I really can't point do an episode I disliked in season 5. It's a pretty solid season when all is said and done! Enjoy the ride!
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