So there were really 2 storylines in tonight's episode and they all had to do with learning more about the Freighter crew and the imminent war between Ben and Charles Widmore. On the freighter we had a continously whiny Sayid doing what he does best and interrogating Michael so that we get his backstory (poor Desmond may have said 2 words if that). And at CAMP LOCKENESS (ooh i like that!) Ben was explaining to his new friends why he is no longer a prisoner and attempting to get his "DAUGHTER" to safety. The majority of the episode was filling in the blanks of where Michael has been since he took that bearing of 325 off the island. Let's break it down!
Meeting Kevin Johnson
Current Day
- As I stated before, Sayid must be still upset with his Lima Bean meals because he is one cranky Iraqi! There was a fight up on deck and the Captain was beating everyone to a pulp stating that he was doing it for everyone's safety. We see freighter crew trying to jump ship and take the smaller boat to the island. There are some crazy ISLAND effects happening on that Boat! Nothing new there. Anyway, Sayid starts stalking Michael (errr Kevin) until he finds him down in the Engine Room and turns into PSEUDO TORTURE SAYID! "YOU WILL TELL ME WHERE YOU HAVE BEEN SINCE YOU LEFT THIS EYEEEELAND!!!!"
- "MAAAAN this ain't the time for that! I gotta DIE man!!!"
- "NO YOU WILLLL TELL ME!!!!! I NEED A GOOD MEAL AND A ROOM WITH NO RATS! I LIVED IN IRAQ FOR A MAJORITY OF MY LIFE AND ON A SCARY ISLAND FOR 100 DAYS! I AM ANGRY SAYID! GIVE ME ANSWERS!"
- "Well why didn't you just say so maaaaan? Let me tell you about everything I am doing for my boy WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAALT!!!!!"
- Ok in all seriousness Sayid is just angry that Michael killed Ana Lucia and Libby and then left the island and is now reporting to Ben and he wants answers! Michael flashes back to fill us in on what's been going on and yes it's all to keep his boy WAAAAALT safe!
- woooooooooosh And we FLASH
FLASHBACK
- We flash to an off-island Michael writing a letter which we find out to be a suicide note to his son.
- Michael gets in his 70's car (trying to throw us off to when this flash was taking place maybe?) and on the radio he hear's Mama Cass's "It's Getting Better." If you recall, Desmond was listening to Mama Cass's "Make Your Own Kind of Music" in the hatch. Damon Lindelof has mentioned a couple times that the music he uses on the show is music that he grew up listening to with his mother. But there could be an ISLAND linkage here too.
- Anyway, Michael takes his car, says "I'm sorry", pins the suicide note to himself and drives straight into a dumpster. Yet, when it appears he should have died, he finds himself in the hospital...DUM DUM DUMMMMMMM
- And while he's in the hospital he gets an off-island vision of LIBBY! Libby returns to LOST, not the way we intended her to though. We thought we'd see her in other people's flashbacks but in the flesh! Anyway, if you notice in this vision Libby is carrying blankets and that's exactly how she looked when Michael shot her. She's doing one crazy haunting job on Michael.
- The vision of Libby and the Christmas tree help to set the timeframe of this flash. Considering Michael was on the freighter on Christmas eve and he's seeing LIBBY this was definitely a flashback after he left the island and prior to his running into Sayid and Desmond on the freighter. So we're looking at either late November early December. Naturally, they did not show us exactly HOW Michael found rescue off of the island. This continues the trend of us not seeing anyone arrive or leave the island. The closest I think we've gotten is seeing the chopper leave the island and we know what that did to Desmond! And we see what's happening to the freighter crew! Something tells me they are still holding back that big reveal for awhile. But it also could've just been yet another way not to show us WALT again because the actor is 4 years older than he was when the show started. And yep, they keep telling us that they will address this on the show and that it started with them showing "TALLER GHOST WALT" to Locke in the season 3 finale. But they made it additionally confusing by apparently SHOWING Walt in this flashback in a window (and a bad acting DOUBLE at that!)
- If you notice in the Hospital, Michael is remaining anonymous. Libby calls him Mr. Dawson but the actual Nurse asks his name and he won't reveal. All she knows is WALT because of the note pinned to the chest.
- So yeah Michael visits his mother (I was trying to figure out if this was the same woman that we see in the Miles flashback where there was a death to a boy and a "ghost" haunting the house. I don't think it was though). His mother is one upset lady because she assumed Michael and Walt died in the Oceanic 815 crash. And Michael is living with the guilt of what he did to get off the island and never told his Mom or anyone what happened with the crash or anything. Mom is frustrated because she is not allowed to talk about the subject or answer anyone's questions. So did Michael tell her ANYTHING? He took another flight maybe? One thing we know is, there was a falling out with Michael and Walt and we eventually find out that it had to do with Michael telling Walt what he did to get him back (killed Ana Lucia/Libby, set up his friends in a trap).
- Next we see Michael trying to pawn Jin's Watch. If you recall Jin tried to kill Michael in season 1 when he saw Michael wearing it. But eventually after they became friends Jin gave the watch to Michael.
- Anyway, Michael pawns it for a gun and loads that puppy up. And just as I was about to make my prediction that he won't be able to kill himself, TOM shows up Off-Island!
- We confirm Michael is in New York. You'll have to tune into my COFFIN WATCH segment below for why I find this important!
- Michael and Tom get into a little scuffle. In short Tom is asking for help. We find out that Michael told Walt about Ana Lucia/Libby and can't live with the guilt. But the big reveal is that Michael cannot kill himself because the Island won't let him. (see? predicition right!) Well, this is interesting. Tom says Michael still has work to do. Just like "Taller Ghost Walt" told Locke he had work to do. Just like (in the missing pieces mobisode) Christian Shephard says that Jack "...has work to do." Then you start looking back at past episodes. Locke tries to shoot himself, Walt appears and tells him his work is not finished. Jack tries to kill himself in the future and he is distracted by a car accident where he needs to FIX something. Woaaaaaa kids! I think we stumbled upon something. Tie this into Michael's Libby visions and Hurley's Charlie visions and we know that the ISLAND really never left these people that left IT!
- Just for added effect, we see Michael TRY to pull the trigger and when he did the bullets would not come out. An old Game Show (important? I heard Kurt Vonnegut mentioned) is interrupted to bring news that the Oceanic Flight 815 wreckage was found.
- All of this inspires Michael to believe Tom and seek him out at the Penthouse at the Hotel Earl. When we get there we see Tom entertaining his BOY TOY. Yes my friends it has finally been confirmed after Tom telling Kate "you're not my type" that Tom is a bona fide gay man who likes to INDULGE when he's off of the island. Of course take this a step further with him wearing costume beards and makeup on island and he could be a GAY ACTOR. Well, it wouldn't be the first one! (not that there's anything wrong with that!)
- Michael asks Tom if "you people" can just leave the island whenever they want. Tom's response "SOME OF US" hmmmmm Maybe Tom is one of the natives? We have seen Tom, Ethan and Richard appear off island now. And of course we have seen Ben in the future. But do you recall when Ben told Tom (11/1/2009 oops, rewatched Man from Tallahassee...it was RICHARD he told) to "get me the man from tallahassee" and they got him there within hours? How did this happen? Can Tom magically transport himself anywhere off island kind of like a DHARMA Polar Bear into Tunisia? Does this help us tie the Nigerian Drug Plane ending up on the island? Does it help us with the Black Rock ending up in the South Pacific when it was really in the Indian Ocean? Is it all connected? Well you would think they'd be able to come up with one answer to tie all of that together wouldn't you??? But in the meantime....what about all of this nonsense about the Sky Turning purple end distrupting their communications off island? Was Tom full of it? I mean, sure they can't talk to people off island but Tom can just freely leave the island?
- Oh and after Tom sends Michael on his mission (which we'll get to) do you think he stayed back and captured Walt and brought him BACK to the island causing this GROWTH ISSUE? We know Walt appeared to Shannon and Sayid too and he was on island at that point too. Hmmmmm. So many possibilities.
- So Tom explains that Charles Widmore is behind the PHONY FLIGHT 815 crash. He staged a fake crash so that only HE knew of the island's existence and what really happened to Oceanic 815. Michael wants proof. Tom shows Michael paperwork and photographs commissioning the job. Pictures of 324 empy grave sites in Thailand (speaking of Jack Tattoo episodes), paperwork commissioning the ordering of a 777 PLANE that was sent down to depths that would never cause a RECOVERY mission of the bodies. Only a man with incredible amounts of money and resources could pull this off. And we now have our two stories. Widmore is Behind it, Ben is behind it. Which do YOU believe? Sounds like we won't be finding out this season! Keep in mind that the news report said that they would be unable to retrieve the Black Box so the mystery of the crash will remain a mystery. Yet, we saw Captain Gault with this Black Box in last week's episode. hmmmm Does this clue us in a bit? I have no idea!
- Anyway, Tom recruits Michael's help to save his FRIENDS: The REAL Oceanic 815 crew. A freighter is leaving Fiji in a few days. They have reason to believe that Widmore finally has the coordinates to the island. Hmmm, perhaps due to an electro-magnetic EVENT that occurred a few weeks prior? Is Penny linked to this somehow by accident? She knows of the island, her people found the coordinates. Was Charles tapping into this information or are they working together? Does Penny think her father is trying to HELP her find Desmond when he really just wants the island? There's a whole story there that we're not seeing yet!
- But in the meatime, Tom tells Michael he's going to be on this boat under the identity of Kevin Johnson - Deckhand and will KILL everyone on the boat. This is Michael's chance to redeem himself to everyone on the island. You would think in Michael's head if he redeems himself then maybe his son will forgive him too. This is reemphasized by a comment that Pimp Daddy Tom makes.
- So next we see Kevin is reporting to duty in Fiji. He runs into all of our new friends Naomi, George Minkowski, Miles, Keamy. At first he thinks these are good people and starts to get cold feet. Tom is there via cellphone to remind him of some other names that would die if he didn't finish his task (Sun, Sawyer, Jack, Claire and her baby).
- Michael guesses that Naomi is from Manchester. Is that because he recognized a distinct British accent due to him knowing Charlie? Bizarre.
- Miles knows that Michael is "NOT Kevin Johnson" right away further making this one weird dude. Does he just get a read on people? Or did he recognize Mr. Johnson? He also mentioned that 80% of the people on the boat are lying about something. Kinda like Miles is lying about why he is there with the whole 3.2 Million dollar request from Ben.
- During the voyage we see a debate between Frank and Naomi about being the first to fly to the island. Naomi says she has "need to know" business to take care of on the island first and "you don't need to know" Well if everyone else was there to grab Ben, then what was Naomi doing there first? Confirming if there were survivors of Flight 815? Something else that she never got around to?
- Frank and Michael have a chat and Frank reveals that he thinks that the Flight 815 crash they are all aware of is a conspiracy and that he and the captain believe this too. And they also think they may run into survivors on this island. Hmmm where did they get this information???? We still don't quite know!
- Okay, I may be skipping a few scenes now (after my play by play by play!) but we eventually see Michael open his mystery crate and there is loads of C4 inside with an "execute button" (we sure love those!) Eventually Michael sees Keamy shooting his Machine Gun at some clay pigeons and starts to suspect that maybe these are bad people. He goes into the engine room and sets up the bomb and presses execute. A note pops up and says "Not Yet"
- Probably also worth mentioning that Michael sees another vision of Libby saying "don't do it Michael!!" What is it all about? Stay tuned to ALL VISION EXPLANATIONS in a future season!
- Michael gets a call from who he thinks is Walt. It turns out to be Ben talking through a radio in his secret closet. Ben said he wanted to prove to Michael what kind of a person he IS NOT. He is not a murderer. Well...he says he won't kill "INNOCENT" people and there are innocent people onboard. When Michael asks of Ana Lucia and Libby, Ben clarifies that "MICHAEL" killed them. Well well well how convenient? Ben tries to state one more time that he is one of the good guys. He tasks Michael with creating a list (Ben loves those lists!) of everyone onboard, and then to sabotage the communications room and when they go to investigate this, sabotage the engine room and ensure that the freighter would NEVER reach the island. Man, talk about being one step ahead of everyone else. Ben sure knows a lot! Cue all Time Traveling theories again! So we tie together all of the freighter mysteries that have been occuring over the last few episodes with one conversation from Ben. Michael apparently accepts this task because it all unfolded on the ship.
Return to Present Day
- Sayid confirms with Michael that he is indeed working for Ben. Michael says yes. Having already been informed by Captain Gault of the OTHER OCEANIC 815 story, Sayid is a quick believer and HATER of all things Ben! He brings Michael to the captain and reveals that he is NOT Kevin Johnson but the freighter's SABATEUR!
- And that's all we get from that storyline for 5 weeks folks!
CAMP LOCKENESS
- So there is a meeting at Locke (well Ben's) house with all of our favorites present: Claire, Aaron, Sawyer, Hurley, Rousseau, Alex, Karl and Ben. Locke brings captive Miles to everyone to unload some information. They want Ben (nothing new) but Ben confirms that their orders are to kill everyone on island once they have him. How do they know this?
- Ben reveals his spy on the boat is Michael much to Sawyer's disgust. I guess Ben had asked Locke to sit down in a previous episode because he had to tell him how he sent Tom off-island to get Michael? Or just the fact that Michael is still working for Ben would be considered a shock? I think the fact that we knew last summer that Michael was returning to the show took away from many of these "You better sit down" moments! So we'll just have to live with that!
- Miles makes a comment to Sawyer and Locke that Ben WILL find a way to get him his 3.2 million referencing how Ben had a Gun to his head a few days back and now he's eating poundcake. He's a man that gets what he wants. Well he sure is.
- He is able to convince Rousseau, Alex and Karl that Alex is in danger if Widmore's crew ever gets to the island. If they found out Alex was his daughter they'd be able to use her as leverage. Ben pulls out a map and makes reference FINALLY to the TEMPLE where the rest of the OTHERS are. It's a sanctuary for THEIR people (not the 815ers). Go ahead and compare and contrast the FREIGHTER FOLK's map to the tempest vs. the map to the Temple. Anyone else notice that the TEMPLE has a DHARMA logo too? hmmmm I just figured this would be OLDER ISLAND MYTHOLOGY.
- So anyway, Rousseau, Karl and Alex go on their quest to the temple. Karl whips out his Star Wars one liner "I Have a Bad Feeling about this" (used in all 6 movies, check it out yourself!) and then they encounter some kind of STEALTH SHOOTER. Karl gets shot and killed (Thanks EW.com's Doc Jensen for ruining this! I can't read that column anymore before an episode!) Alex is beside herself. Rousseau tries to get Alex in the now, tells her she loves her but they have to run. And then...BAM....Rousseau is shot too! woaaaaaa (totally didn't see that one coming!) Alex gets up and screams "I'm BEN'S DAUGHTER! Don't Shoot I'm his daughter!!!" or something like that and then BOOM......LOST!!!!!
You can make out the back of someone sneaking through the jungle. This is back to some of those stealthy others that we saw in season 1 and 2 right? Perhaps this is not the same crew that went to that temple. But was this all to Ben's plan? Did he want Alex and Rousseau taken out of the picture? Are these more of the RICHARD-natives? Are we finally going to see why some OTHERS are sneaky, creepy and superhuman and mysterious as opposed to the White Collar others we met in season 3? Very good way to take us into a break! And I think after recapping this episode, I enjoyed it more than I thought I did! But we're not done yet folks!
Coffin Watch
Yep, I'm still thinking it is Michael now more than ever. The man is suicidal, but the island won't let him die. He's FROM New York and RETURNED to New York but was anonymous when he returned. I forget the name that we saw part of in the newspaper during that Season 3 finale but it did mention New York. I must stress again the Neighborhood that the funeral was in (in LA) and that Kate did NOT want to go to the funeral. Meanwhile also, suicidal Jack (but unable to kill himself) sympathized with Michael and went to the funeral. Of course, now the question would be well how would Michael get BACK? We know he's not one of the oceanic 6 so if he WAS off-island he would still be anonymous. Of course, WALT is anonymous too, but I'm thinking he's back on the island like I stated before. The whole aging thing needs to be explained. Unless Walt appeared to Locke FROM the future or Jacob manifested the image of an older Walt! But yeah, all signs point to Michael still for me!
Oceanic 6 have been confirmed by ABC so even though the producers are remaining mum on the subject our 6 are: Jack, Kate, Hurley, Sayid, Aaron, Sun. The promos suggest that we will learn in the remaining episodes HOW they get off the island. And that was also confirmed by the producers as the whole point of season 4. Well kids, pretty crazy episode. Do we have enough to discuss for 5 weeks? I don't think I'll be posting another blog until then unless we get some startling information. Please keep checking in and keeping up with the comments! We've had some pretty lively discussions all season. Thanks for reading as always and I'll see you in late APRIL!
191 comments:
Michael’s mom rocks.
"SOME OF US" Interesting that only some can leave. Richard has left and he’s a native so why wouldn’t people Ben brought to the island from the outside be able to leave? Does their orientation in room 23 involve a radiation bath lol. And Ben said to Locke before he blew up the sub that he needed to maintain the illusion that his people could leave. But that could be that answer there, Ben is lying to his people about leaving when they really can’t.
What’s with the ax? I noticed it when Sayid was walking around the boat and assumed someone stuck it in there during a fight while everyone is going crazy. But when Michael first walked on the boat there it was stuck in the wall, strange.
Libby visions. The first could be a dream but the second was an island vision. But why would she to Michael not to do it. I still believe that Ben is working against what the island want. He wants the best for the island but thinks he can do it better than the way the island is telling him.
The big question, Ben or Widmore who faked the crash? Both have evidence that the other did it. As of right now Tom was more convincing than Gault but if Widmore planted it why would Gault say he went to the expense of retrieving the black box, unless it’s fake. And there is one more very rich daddy we haven’t seen in a while; Mr. Paik could be involved in some as yet unseen way. Ok enough, I could go on awhile lol.
Good bye Karl, I hope Rousseau is not really dead.
“This is back to some of those stealthy others that we saw in season 1 and 2 right?” I think this was the errand Frank went on. I didn’t see the commando crew that was shooting skets in the beginning of the episode so I’m guessing now that it’s confirmed there were 815 survivors Frank took them to the island to start a new purge.
Is there some inside joke I missed as to why you call him Capt 'Gaunt' instead of Gault ?? LOL
Great ep. But this ex-New Yorker knew Mike was in manhattan immediately when Mike stepped out from the apartment as they showed the subway sign for the IRT Chambers Street. LOL
Immediately thought of you Mike V when they showed the previously and we got Waaaaaaaalt ! ;-)
Nope...it's a typo lol...i'm going to fix them all now! GAULT...what a weird name! Also, I assumed Michael was in NYC but you just never know with this show! lol
Stedman..interesting on you think Frank took the guys to start offing Non-815ers??? that would be kinda interesting. They must've gone somewhere on the island with the chopper right? That was a good catch.
Didn't notice the AX, will have to go back and check that. But yeah I'm thinking it has something to do with being NATIVES and traveling back and forth to the island. I think somehow Ben hitched a ride with that freighter with the Oceanic 6 crew...but we'll see!
I hope DeLenn (ooops) Rousseau isn't dead either. Alot of story yet to be had there.
But sheesh - Rousseau and Alex now live in a house with shampoo and showers - comb your hair ! Just saying! LOL
No body has the power to piss of Kate like Sawyer - I'm thinking that he sneaks his way back home without being tagged O-6 and is in the coffin. He'd be living in a crappy hood too if he wasn't back scamming folks. Like all the Mike theories - but Michael is just obvious that I have to think it's not him.
That very old car, and music, was very odd to me. The car maybe since Mike would not have alot of dough - but what 30 odd year old guy is listening to that on the radio !?!
When Mike arrives at the dock the ship says KAHA with then the rest blocked off. Anything ?? They showed it quite plainly so it has to be something.
Nice that Tom got to have his tryst with Arturo and a last feast before going back to the island and getting killed trying to kidnap pregnant women ! LOL
About whether it's Widmore or Ben who faked this whole thing, can't decide. I don't think that either man will be totally good or bad in the end.
Like your theory that Ben is no longer following the island though. And that another rich and powerfule Mr. Paik could come into play.
Ben was so very specific that the santuary was for 'us' not 'them' - then sends Rousseau there. Obvious set-up ???
I know that it's been discussed before that the show has to be judicial with how much conversation these characters have with one another - leaving us to assume some conversations take place - but - when Ben states that they will kill all on the island once they have him you'd think Miles would say something - yes, no, I don't know ?? usually when being accused of future mass murdering the person accused has a response !
And when Des hears Michael's version of why Widmore has the boat out there you'd think Des would say something/anything ?!? Or just a reaction to the fact that the love of his life's dad is out to mass murder would be nice.
Liking Stedman's thought of the skeet shooters being the ones to shoot Rousseau and what's his name.
I think that mj is onto something with regard to the set-up. Both Karl and Rousseau were threats to Alex's relationship to Ben. In the slow motion video on Sledgeweb's site, it looked like the shooter had dark curly hair - could it be Richard Alpert maybe?
And LOVE "Lockeness" - I hope they stay at the Other's camp for a while so that you can use that some more.
What a crazy ending, I feel sea sick! I say Rouseou(sp) is alive they said on last weeks preview that "someone" would die, I think that someone is Karl.
I wonder what the heck is going on with this Island, how does it control people off the island? To be able to even control the fact that he can't kill himself. I mean he crashed that car pretty bad.
Anyway, did any of you catch what Hurley says on scenes for the next episode? Did he say something about Claire's house as he was holding Aaron?
It is going to be too long before the next one, I may have to admit myself in a Lost addicts annonymous to help me through this.
Anyway, look forward to see what everyone thinks on this blog.
E
Time discussion:
Michael was on the island for about 2 months. The rest of the Losties have been there for about 100 days now.
So in a time span of less than 40 days, Michael and Walt get rescued, make it back to NY, have a falling out, Michael tries to kill himself in a car crash, recovers, tries to kill himself again, talks to Tom, flies to Fuji, works on a freighter, etc. Tie all this into the fact that Dan says the amount of time one thinks passes on the island isn't correct and his experiment that shows time is moving more slowly on the island, wouldn't that mean that everything that has happened to Michael has occurred during a much shorter time frame than 40 days?
Other thoughts:
I agree that it is freightor folk who killed Karl and Rousseau. I don't remember the Others ever using sophisticated sniper rifles, but obviously, the freightor folk have some newer tech weapons.
Is the black box real? If it is, it would have had to come from the island (maybe the Other who got caught and killed by Widmore sold it to him?). It would explain how the freightor found the island, but I still think Dan has something to do with it as well, lol.
If the island determines when you are allowed to die, does that mean it wanted everyone who has died to this point to die? If it has that much power, then does it want Widmore's people to come to the island? Why else wouldn't it just prevent the boat from coming?
On the flip side, if it is allowing the boat/Widmore to find it, is it against Ben? If it was, you would think Ben would be dead by now.
Also, I was disappointed by Tom being special enough to be able to leave the island, but so easily killed off by Sawyer. Ethan seemed almost superhuman, and we all know Ben can take a beating (both have been seen off the island). That only leaves Richard, is he super special or just ageless?
Mike, I think Michael in the coffin might be too simple. If he really wants to die that bad, how does he manage to avoid being killed by the Losties, freightor folk, and wait that long to kill himself in the future unless Walt is somehow on the island and he is trying to get back, but then I don't think he would kill himself.
Enough rambling for now.
-Addict
E,
I did notice that Hurley was holding Aaron when someone (Sawyer?) said that Claire's house was being attacked. Once again, I think that the freightor folk got Alex and used her to find Ben. They don't care if anyone else dies.
-Addict
When Rousseau was telling Alex she loved her, that they were gonna run did any one else notice something dangling in front of Alex's ear??? Wasn't an earring as is was coming over the ear like a wireless receiver or something.
Loved hurley's "Uh, we kinds knew that forever-a-go" !
Don't know what game show it was - but the set had an old 70's like feel to it. Almost looked like the newleywed game. LOL
Noticed in Tom's spiel to Michael he says that Widmore dug up 300 odd bodies. Strange that he did not say 324 bodies - or me just reading too much into it ???
Miles knowing that Michael is not Kevin is highly suspicious since he seems to know Ben.
Didn't seem like Gault was at all surprised to hear that Kevin Johnson is not who he says he is. Is Gault a double agent working for Widmore AND Ben ?
Ben seemed surprised that Mike had already tried the bomb too.
When Libby appears to Mike and says not to set off the bomb - was the music from the car playing also?
Loved the alarm that went off on ship - took me back to the hatch days.
I just had the thought that Ben staged the fake plane. If Widmore did it so that no one else could ever find the island, don't you think he would want all of the Losties dead? Sayid has been living on the freightor for days now. Yes, the communication equipment is down, but you would think that Gault would have standing orders to kill the Losties if Widmore wanted it to be that way.
-Addict
Addict -
I can't remember now if Gault states he has the actual black box from the original flight, or the box from the fake ??
But I think it's from the original flight so you have an excellent point. If Widmore has the original box from the real flight then someone on the island had to get it for him. Hmmmmm.
wow you guys went on a posting frenzy lol
Couple things:
- Black box Gault has was dug up in Indian Ocean on FAKE 815
- Addict - I know Michael seems too obvious but for now the facts all fit, and that's why I haven't changed my mind yet lol Michael being the man on the boat was too obvious too lol
gotta run..i'll try to post more later! Keep it up!
Dang ! I was liking the intrigue of how Widmore/Gault could have gotten the actual black box ! Oh well.
So - if Widmore really wants Ben and then intends to kill all island inhabitants - then why are Sayid and Des still alive ??
An argument can be made that he's not wanting to tip his hand to his crew who might not know all of the plan - but the man just beat the crap out of a crew memeber so he does not strike me as the type who gives a damn what the crew thinks.
I do think that Widmore is going to be the big bad here, but also that Ben is not going to be wholly on the side of good either.
Issue Tom, Ethan and Richard being free to come and go from the island on island business has to do with being original 'hostiles' whereas people like Juliette were brought in after the purge.
Addict,
A few points on your time discussion (uh oh here we go again lol) Michaels activities does seem like a lot in 40 days, especially including his recovery in the hospital, he was banged up. But didn’t Dan’s rocket prove the only time difference is going to and from the island? The chopper took 2 days to get to the freighter when it should have taken 20 minutes. And the dates from the freighter (calendar) and stated on the island (jack saying 100 days) seem to match. That being said your overall point is correct that he would have lost some time leaving the island, if a chopper took 2 days a slower boat mike take over a week.
I think Gault said the black box is from the fake plane. The island has been visible twice since the show started when Desmond crashed the plane and when he turned the key. The artic two confirmed this after the key when they said did they miss it again. Widmore probably found out the location from them.
I agree the Michael is too obvious for the man in the coffin.
MJ,
I noticed Gault didn’t seem surprised either, we’ll see where that goes.
And that was the same music from the car.
I forgot to post that I think that Captain Gault seemed like he knew about Micheal all along...? Did it seem that way to you guys?
I too think that Ben has lost touch with the island and it has chosen another person (Locke?)That is why Ben was so upset that John heard Jacob, whom we all remember said "help me". Remember Ben said he was not healing after the surgery until Locke started hanging around.
I have a theory that the island gives certain people special gifts, such as show up at different places, like Walt, or healing powers, like Locke and Rose.
I think that these visions are the island taking form of someone that it thinks the person will respond to, such as when echo thougth he was talking to his brother and then it said. "I am not your brother". That is when Echo figured out that something was not right. Yet if you remember he was one of the people on Jacob's list, but he got away from them taking him by killing 2 of the others.
How are these writter going to close all these open end threads from all the seasons?
Too many layers, I love this show!
E
Mike,
How do you know that the black box Gault has is from the fake ship?
That black box was too pristine to be recovered from the depths of the ocean. Also, if Widmore was able to recover the black box from the plane, don't you think the FAA or whoever would have been able to do the same? Don't you think someone would have raised a red flag if the black box was actually encoded for Oceanic 815 or if the black box from the wrong plane was missing?
-Addict
So no one else noticed this ear piece thing on Alex ???
As far as the black box... it Widmore put the plane down there, he may have just grabbed the black box before he sank the plane. Now that the plane is that far down in the Ocean trench, they could not recover the black box even if it was still there.
Previous post by me had a major typo, sorry.
Don't you think someone would have raised a red flag if the black box WASN'T actually encoded for Oceanic 815 or if the black box from the wrong plane was missing?
-Addict
weasel,
Then why on earth would Widmore let Gault keep it in a safe? Why not destroy it? It doesn't make sense to hold onto a fake black box.
-Addict
MJ, I noticed the thing near her ear. Wondered what the hell it was. Anyone any ideas?
Leigh
Addict,
Gault is probably a pawn... probably being manipulated just like everyone else in this game. However, if Ben put the plane down there there goes my theory!!
cdstedman/Mike,
Gault did say that the black box was from the fake plane while convincing Sayid that Ben staged the fake plane. I just rewatched this part.
I think this is a horrible gaffe on the writers part if this holds true because the same robot that took the footage of the wreckage would have also been used to recover the black box to analyze the crash, especially since it ended up so far from its flight path. How would a missing black box go over with the FAA, public, etc.? Also, Widmore didn't steal it once it was recovered, since Gault says that Widmore spent a considerable amount of money to get it off the ocean floor.
Maybe Widmore is lying to Gault? Why on earth would Widmore allow Gault to hold onto this? Widmore obviously doesn't want anyone else to know about this fake plane or else he would have gone public, so why not destroy the black box?
mj,
Just rewatched the end of last night's episode and yes, Alex does have something by her ear, but it looks more like hair beads to me. I tried to look at earlier scenes of her last night to see if they were noticeable, but she has too much hair and the scenes at Otherville were all from the front.
-Addict
cdstedman,
You may be right (NOT, lol) about the only time difference being in traveling to and from the island.
I always thought that the time difference was continuous on the island too. How else do you account for the difference in the time of day for the chopper ride? Remember, Frank only said that they had limited fuel (something like enough for the 30 minute flight back to the freightor) that determined how many passengers could go on the return voyage. Sayid never said anything about being on a chopper for 16 hours or so. He only asked Frank how it was possible to take off at dusk and arrive in the middle of the day. Sayid's question makes NO SENSE if it actually took them that long to travel to the boat.
-Addict
Yeah Addict that's what I was referring to when I said the Black Box was from fake plane. I guess the big question is WHO is lying and which things are each lying about? lol I just figured that it was FACT that the Black Box was from FAKE 815. And that it was grabbed during the excavation of FAKE FLIGHT 815 which if you recall was found by a crew looking for the Black Rock. Who else was interested in the Black Rock? Charles Widmore. So yeah....we don't know if Widmore or Ben staged Flight 815...but even if Widmore staged it...why couldn't he send an excavation crew to find his own plane? lol I dunno....
i think the comment made in the newscast was that the plane was so deep down it would be impossible to identify the remains. I thought they mentioned something about the black box too. Did they say they would be unable to retrieve? I guess they are making it sound like both stories (Ben vs Widmore) are both believable yet there seem to be holes in each.
I guess right now since we know more of Ben's story than Widmore's it is easy to side with Ben in that he is fighting the GOOD FIGHT and accepting casualties for a greater good. Meanwhile, we've only pretty much seen a nasty side to Widmore and have only heard that he's capable of WORSE things than Ben (albeit FROM Ben). We don't really know what role Gault and Lapidus play in this story just yet. It's all just shrouded in mystery! lol
I'm just rambling on and on...but I guess my point was just that the excavation crew could've been sponsored by Widmore looking for the Black Rock (at least that is what it was STAGED to look like) and they snagged the black box....OR Widmore never put the Black Box with the 815...and doctored that up too....and is lying to Gault about Ben.
Yikes...I'm talking myself in circles and we're not even talking anything about Time Travel! lol
Oh yeah...someone else made a comment about Michael's adventures off island seeming to take longer than 40 days or whatever. I think the timeline fits. My question is more on how TOM was off island with Michael for a couple of these scenes...yet always seemed to be in the thick of things ON ISLAND during the Kate/Jack/Sawyer captivity, playing football with Jack, etc.... Is it THAT easy to travel back and forth from the island?
Didn't notice the earpiece thing, but I'm leaning towards agreeing with Addict that it's probably meant to be nothing! But I'll check it out! lol
Whew...enough rambling for now!
I know this sounds a little crazy, but has anyone else had the thought that maybe the island is able to move? This would account for how the Black Rock and Echo's brother's plane made it all the way to the Pacific, maybe they didn't.
-Addict
Mike,
I agree that Widmore could have sent a crew to find his staged plane, but my point is that if he was able to recover the black box that the FAA or someone would also have had the same resources to find it.
If Widmore removed the black box before staging the plane, then how would that be accounted for by the FAA or government?
If Ben staged the plane and Widmore found it and the black box, then why didn't the FAA or whoever also try to locate and find it weird that it was missing?
I agree with whoever said that Gault is a pawn and maybe that is why Widmore let him keep the black box because Widmore knows there isn't anything on it. Maybe Widmore needed to give a "token" to Gault to get him to help him.
-Addict
yeah the moving island used to be my only explanation of stuff like that lol and it still might be. I think the producers were asked that in a podcast once and they said they couldn't answer the question because it is deep rooted in the major mysteries of the island. Guess we will be waiting for awhile on that one! Its either that or something with being able to "teleport" people and things I various places on the globe. See: others leaving and returning to island, Indian ocean stuff ending up on island, polar bear in Tunisia, and yemi plane. Lol drives my head crazy!!!!
For now, I like the island moving theory better or even worm holes around the globe that allow for time travel to and from the island. Teleporting objects as large as the Black Rock is too much, lol.
-Addict
I see what you're saying addict. I guess the FAA just saw it as a lost cause. Maybe the black box was never planted with the flight and widmore just doctored that to either rally people to his cause or to put on a show for the real 815 ers lolol. Either that or like you said just a continuity error. We will see!
yeah worm holes are a possibility too. In any of the 3 cases they are all hard to swallow as an average viewer! Lol
Addict your right about the fuel. My guess is when you travel to and from the island you’re in a state of slow motion. To the chopper POV they only flew 20 minutes and that amount of distance but did it in slow motion but the 815ers POV it took them 2 days. Once they got out of the storm (slow motion limits?) they landed at the POV of the 815ers. That would account for Sayid’s middle of the day comment. Thought?
cdstedman,
I know what you are trying to say, but unless there is more than one universe or sun, your theory doesn't hold water (no rehydration necessary, lol). If the "edge" of the island causes the helicopter to go in slow motion as you suggest, it would still have to keep running on gas for the approximately 16 hours to account for the sun setting at take off to being midday at landing. I am not an expert on helicopter fuel tanks, but I am guessing that they hold enough fuel for about 3-4 hours.
On the other hand, I have been thinking that maybe getting thrown slightly off course during flight could have led to a slight time alteration (time travel), but I don't know if it is plausible for Sayid, Frank, Naomi's never again mentioned corpse, lol, Desmond's body and helicopter to be thrown to one time period and Desmond's mind to be thrown to a different time period. If it wasn't for Desmond's mind going back to 1996, this slight time travel for the helicopter to explain the time difference, as stated by Sayid, would have been my number #1 theory.
Also, if Mike and others agree that the 40 day time period for Michael's events is plausible, then I doubt that travel to and from the island by itself leads to time travel because it would be all but impossible to keep a boat that small on a specific heading.
Final thought, I don't think Michael and Walt took the boat to find rescue. How would they explain be in the middle of wherever. Remember, it was important for Ben to allow his people the perception that they could leave the island, but what if the coordinates that Ben gave Michael led him and Walt to a rendevous point where Ben, Tom, Richard, or someone else could have "delivered" Michael and Walt to New York. This may be why Michael's story to Sayid conveniently left out how they got rescued because the transportation to and from the island has to be a major reveal later on. This would also tie into why Ethan/Richard drugged Juliette to keep her from being suspicious of a 2 minute submarine ride (full circle back to the worm hole or teleportation theories, lol).
-Addict
-Addict
Guess we found out why Jack didn't (couldn't) kill himself.
Michael is told the island won't let you kill yourself. We also see that with Jack in trying to jump off the bridge and Hurley and his high speed chase and reckless driving.
By the way, why do people call you "Butzo"?
Loved this episode. Ought to be a WOW!! (with 2 exclamation points), Mike.
Interesting that Sayid was so adamant against Michael working for Ben because we already know that Sayid ends up doing the very same thing sometime in the future. LOL
I haven't fully understood this so if someone could help me, I'd be grateful:
Do we know yet exactly WHO told Widmore about 815 having survivors? Ben's obsession I can understand since it's happening on "his" island but why is Widmore so obsessed with 815?
Furthermore, how does Widmore know Ben? To my knowledge they have never met, right?
What was with Rousseau all of a sudden believing Ben? She has never ever gave him the benefit of the doubt and now she's willing to take him at his word? She's survived 16 years on this island.....16 years!!! by being a loner, an outcast, suspicious of everything and everyone and suddenly she doesn't question Ben's motives? Ugh!
When Ben saw Karl's arm around Alex, didn't his facial expression suggest that he knew what was coming to them? By getting rid of Alex's boyfriend and mother, is he doing to her what he did to Juliet--claiming that she was his!??
Mr. Linus seems to have an extremely jealous streak doesn't he?
In other thoughts, apparently the 324 missing corpses out of the graves in Thailand has raised NO RED FLAGS!???? Nobody has mentioned this to the authorities??? I had heard somewhere else that, forgive my morbidness, that perhaps it was going to be explained that these were actual Tsunami victims from that horrible true life incident a few years back. If so, that would ruin Lost in my view.
i dont really think that this was a good episode to send us off with....i have a lot of un answered questions...the biggest one being why did sayid give up michaels identity? it just does not make sense to me i think it may have to do with these island tricks...sayid seemed like a nice guy when he was on the island and now that he is on the frieghter he has gone a little crazy it seems...that could just be me though
as for last episode and the translation for the tombstone if they list the birthdate and the day of death on the stone why isnt suns death date on the stone aswell because before she became one of the 6 she was thought to be dead in the crash as well as jin.
Here's a little light reading that I thought some of you may find more than interesting.
http://www.4815162342.com/forum/viewtopic.php?t=46402
Enjoy!
The above link is very interesting and makes me think even more that Ben planted the fake plane.
Just a side note: even though this site is very convincing, it is just the site's author's opinion, not necessarily the truth.
Mike, I don't know if you realize how much power (lol) that you have over some of your readers, i.e., if you write something (even your opinion, then it has to be true).
I think all true, rational Lost fans realize that there are too many questions/mysteries about the show for any one blog writer to know the "TRUTH" about everything, unless one of the writers/producers is the author of one of these blogs, lol.
-Addict
Yikes so much to respond to. First of all, Drew...good job posting not as anonymous and still getting in that question that has no answer! lol (BTW...I did mention the Jack thing in the blog!)
As for Sun not having a Date of Death on the tombstone? I wondered that too. We're probably just meant to assume that they either updated the stone or it wasn't created until AFTER Sun returned home. If you recall..people were still holding onto hope until fake flight 815 was found in the Ocean. And based on when we see Michael seeing that news report it's Christmas time. They may not have had any funerals until after the flight was found. Probably looking into this too much though lol I think it's just simply that the world knows Sun is still alive and believes Jin to be dead (whether that's true or not!)
Addict - the only reason I'm saying 40 days is plausible because I think the writers want us to to just accept that it's plausible. I think that they've been trying to make it pretty clear that time on the island is the same as time off of the island (it was christmas eve at Penny's and on the Island according to Sayid's guestimate). I agree with stedman, it's in the traveling to and from where time APPEARS to be different (the whole Chopper seeming to be gone for a day when it was a 20 minute flight - yeah i still don't get that and won't pretend to try! lol). We just don't know exactly how that works quite yet lol Just added onto the huge list of unanswered mysteries! lol
As for the 324 bodies not raising any flags?? Yeah I'm confused about that too. The Tsunami explanation would work...but I'm just going to guess they aren't going to go there with the show. Like you said, hits a little too close to reality and is a bit morbid. Of course, we don't know if Ben or Widmore exhumed those bodies. But yeah you would think if a cemetary was found with 324 empty dug up graves...people would notice. Then again, all we have seen is a picture from TOM and we don't know who is telling the truth just yet. I'm rambling once again with no real answer here! But that's what discussing LOST is all about right? lol
Thanks everyone for commenting! Keep up the discussion!
And I'll check out that link later. Looks like a long read! lol
"Mike, I don't know if you realize how much power (lol) that you have over some of your readers, i.e., if you write something (even your opinion, then it has to be true)."
lol....you noticed that eh? Yeah I don't claim to know the truth about anything! All just opinions. Except when I'm stating facts from the show lol
I do try to keep people straight on what is confirmed on the show as FACT and what is totally still up for debate! lol
Who planted the plane, Ben or Widmore? To me, the most logical explanation is Ben did, to trick Widmore into thinking the plane crashed in the ocean and not on the island. I also think the black box was recovered by Widmore and they realize it's a fake. That is why they are still searching for the island.
Hey Mike...just a heads up:
On that link alluded too just a few paragraphs up, you gotta also check out this lady's response on page 5. Apparently her and her father have come up with a theory that the numbers 4 8 15 16 23 42 are in actuality a clue to a time constant between the battle of the island between Ben and Widmore.
She surmises that the date is actually in the future (April 8 at3:16 p.m in the year 2342). She furthers explains the similarities between Ben's purging and Hitler's and his war against his enemies. etc.
Just something to check out (and hopefully respond to) while Lost is on hiatis.
Okay, let me know if what I say is completely incorrect but didn't we see footage of the supposed Pilot Seth Norris's(wasn't it?) arms, when Frank saw the News report about 815? When he rang Oceanic and said that Mr Pilot ALWAYS wore his wedding ring etc and that it wasn't him? On that news report it says that the NTSB(or whatever organisation it is) has begun identifying the victims but wont be able to recover them - Would that mean that whoever staged the crash dressed the corpses(wherever they came from, ie Thailand)? That seems a little extreme to me but based on Confirmed Dead and what I saw in Meet Kevin Johnson that is what happened...?
This makes me believe that Ben staged the crash, not Widmore as Tom told us and showed us in his little file...
Did anyone else notice this or am I noticing things that aren't there again like Taller Ghost Walt?
~David
About the crash- we can't say who planted it: Ben, Widmore, or someone else. Perhaps Ben had the means to stage a plane, and did so in order to set Widmore off-track? Or did Widmore stage the plane with the intention of hiw freightor team killing all of the 815 Survivors? Or maybe another entity planted the plane, and Ben and Widmore are both manipulative and paranoid that they'll make others believe that the other one planted it?
All three are possibilities.
Also, last episode had a great cliffhanger. Did Ben set up Roussoe and Carl? Or was he too late and a team from the frieghtor caught up with them? Is that the reason why the Captian doesn't want anyone else to leave the boat (a wetworks team is on the island and the CAptian doesn't want any innocent person dead)? Is Roussoe dead or alive (we know that staying on the island makes characters really hard to kill)?
Great ep!
Agree with Addict - Michael and Walt followed the 325 heading with the boat but that only took them outside the islands magnetic field/time warping area. They were then met by some one who transported them back home.
Agree that Lost has gone out of it's way to let us know that people have traveled back and forth - but never HOW.
Besides - exactly how would Michael or Walt show their passports - if they had them - and come home without any one knowing !?! So no they could not have sailed to the nearest inhabited place and then just went back to NY . This is a mystery yet to be revealed to us. ;-)
pretty good screenshots in this link. They are suggesting that the patient in Michael's hospital room might have been Alvar Hanso. I'm going to have to say NO to that one lol We've seen patients in rooms before that we've thought were other people and turn out NOT to be anyone. Of course, they did go out of their way to CALL this patient out to us and give him a second of screentime...so who knows?
I found the DHARMA logo for the Temple more interesting (which I had noted in the blog) I really thought this was going to be more of ancient ruins of the island, unless DHARMA was in those ruins messing with things again. Maybe Alex will make it there so we can eventually see it! lol
http://getlostpodcast.com/2008/03/20/lost-episode-408--meet-kevin-johnson-easter-eggs-and-screencaps.aspx
I voted that Widmore is behind this false plane crash, but the more I think about it I really believe that Ben had to be the one. The reason is, if Widmore is so powerful, how does he "purchase a plane under his real company's name" and then has all of this information stolen what seems like so easily. I thinkt he information they have is all a set up by Ben to make Michael and all of us viewers believe that Widmore was the one who planted the plane. Now I don't believe that either of them is good by no means, but I do believe that Ben's intentions are to protect the island, "at all cost". Remember that Sayid is very good at being able to tell if someone is lying and is really good at knowing which side to be on. If he is working for Ben in the future, then, Ben at least is the least of the 2 evils. Remember he even tells his daughter that thos freighter people are even more bad than he is. He never denies to her about who he is.
Also, regarding Claire and Aaron: I believe that there is only so much space on the only flight (helicopter) to get off the island and asks that the baby go with them, I can't explain why Hurley has the baby in the next episode scenes and Claire is no where in site. I believe that Kate does go back to the island, but because Aaron gets sick and perhaps needs a blood transfusion and the only person she can think of that can help him is his mother.
I will not even consider to try to figure out this whole time travel and island movement thing. I will leave that to Addict and Cdstedman. LOL
Kind of crazy I know but this is lost.
E.
I can't believe I haven't posted this as a comment yet! I listened to the producer's podcast last Friday and they revealed the title of the SECRET FINALE SCENE that is being kept under wraps this season.
Season 1 - The Bagel - Walt getting captured/blowing the hatch open and looking in
Season 2 - The Challah - Off-Island detection of the Island (penny picking up phone)
Season 3 - Rattlesnake in the Mailbox (referring to the flash forward jack/kate meeting turning everything upside down)
Season 4 - .....wait for it......
"THE FROZEN DONKEY WHEEL"
The other tidbit is that it will NOT be the final scene of the episode. Very very interesting!
Link to Podcast: http://abc.go.com/primetime/lost/index?pn=podcast
Ausiello on TV Guide also confirmed that we WILL get a Jack-centric episode this season. That was probably obvious, but still good to know!
One thing that has puzzled me over the last few weeks after seeing the Others going on and off the island so easily: Why does Ben set up such an elaborate scheme to kidnap Jack (kidnapping Michael and Walt first, sending Michael back, holding Kate and Sawyer, etc.) in order to force him to operate when Ben can come and go off the island? Wouldn't it be easier for him to just leave the island and have any neurosurgeon of his choosing operate on his tumor? I think it would be, so the only explanation would be that somehow Ben knew that Jack was the only surgeon that could operate on him successfully - and that it had to happen on the island.
Could it be that Ben had set up everything from the beginning, including the crash, just to manipulate Jack into operating on him? If that is true, then Ben would have the motive for planting the fake plane. But, by setting this up, he ended up revealing the island to the outside world (hatch implosion, communications unblocked, etc.)and opened the door for Widmore to find the island. Now that Ben is better, I think that the sniper and the "army" seen in the previews for upcoming episodes were sent by Ben to clean everything up and erase any evidence of his crimes - to kill the remaining survivors and Widmore's people on the freighter.
In regards to the last post, I don't see how this is possible. If Ben really needed Jack to operate on him on the island, why not just kidnap Jack and bring him to the island. Plus, how would Ben know that Jack would survive the crash? If he could guarantee that Jack would survive, then why not implant Ethan and Goodwin on the plane before the crash rather than having them join after the crash.
I'm not saying that I think the following, but a more likely scenario is that the island manipulated events to bring Jack to the island to save Ben.
-Addict
I agree Addict, I'm having a hard time thinking Ben has orchestrated EVERYTHING. But he is playing a part in something - we just don't know how much! The funny thing is, we as fans of the show have accepted the fact that the island is able to control fate and bring a plane down as an acceptable solution! Those producers have worked wonders on us! Remember back in the day when we were thinking that there would have to be a scientific solution to everything that's going on? Of course the producers have stated before that there will be a scientific solution but only in terms of anything you would read in a Michael Chrichton Novel. So it's stretching Science a bit but that would still lead me to believe that there is some reasonable explanation behind all of what seems to be supernatural on the island!
Anyway, I do think it is a good point to be asking why Ben wouldn't just leave the island if he could to have his surgery. Something would tell me he wouldn't be able to just walk into any ol' Hospital for fear he might get recognized. Keep in mind, Widmore and clan have been after him for some time right? We also don't know if Ben can go to and from the island as freely as someone like say Richard, Tom and Ethan (we still don't know how they did it! I guess you could justify that they used the sub but how did TOM Fetch the Man From Tallahassee? Locke was already working on blowing up the sub when he was doing that!)
We also did see a PICTURE of BEN in what seemed like an OFF ISLAND photo, so then THAT becomes a question. And of course, we see Ben off-island in the FUTURE. But that could be explained as him getting off the island whenever the Oceanic 6 do. It does seem like there is a huge potential for a continuuity issue here. But I'm confident they'll close that gap!
Speaking of the ISLAND bringing the plane down. I meant to mention this in the Blog or comment on it. You know how we have seen now that if you have work to do the island doesn't let you die? What if that is why the 48/23 people survived from the fuselage and tailsection? I am rewatching Season 1 now and Sayid was talking to Kate and mentioning how the fuselage spiraled through the jungle and ended up on the beach and many of them were unscathed or injured. Kate said "maybe we were lucky" sayid says " no one is THAT lucky" I wonder if we're to assume that whatever is preventing Michael and Jack and Locke from killing themselves is the same that prevented people from dying in the crash. Man I hope we actually get to see the fuselage actually crashing on the island before the show is over. You would think that is a big thing they would need to show!
Okay, I think I'm done rambling for now!
I agree with what’s been said that Ben hasn’t orchestrated everything involving the crash. Ben admitted to Jack that three days after he found out he had a tumor a surgeon fell from the sky, that’s not enough time to plan a crash with a surgeon on it. And Ben and Juliet went to the flame station to find out who was on the plane.
I do have to disagree with addict again (big surprise lol). I still think the island want to get rid of Ben. Why on an island where cripples walk and tumors in other people heal would Ben get a tumor? In the episode where Juliet tells Ben he has a tumor Ben is shocked and doesn’t know why he would get sick.
Which brings us to “The Frozen Donkey Wheel.” Nobody has guessed at this yet so I’ll be the first. I think it refers to Ben’s loss of power over the island. I don’t think he’s off the island in the Sayid FF by choice. I would love it if Locke finally stopped relying on Ben and kicked him off the island and he had to stow away somehow with the Oceanic 6. Locke would than be taking his chances against Widmore an enemy in front of him than Ben, an enemy that would stab him in the back.
I didn't even think abou the fact that the island selectively chose these survivors to live through the crash because it expects something from them. But how does Ben and Tom know this? Is it because neither of them have been able to die in the past? or is there something more that we have yet to find out. Remember Ben is not an original from the Island so how does he know so much, perhaps Richard let him in on the secret? Perhaps he still see his dead mother and she tells him things? I just can't wait until the 24th.
Maybe Frozen Donkey wheel means that the events that are expected to happen have been stopped (delayed)Frozen due to the fact that these 6 have left the island, so the island is trying to get them back to finish their task? Which we have still to find out what that task is.
E
cdstedman,
Wow, that must have been a really long run that you went on because I was still waiting for feedback from you on my 3/21 post regarding your slow motion comment.
If you re-read my most recent post, it says "I'm not saying that I think the following" in regards to a more likely cause of the island causing the plane to crash rather than Ben causing it to crash. So, I don't necessarily believe that the island is trying to save Ben, only that the island trying to save Ben is a more plausible explanation for the crash than Ben causing the crash of the plane because Jack is on it.
To further extrapolate your theory that Ben got a tumor because the island wants to get rid of him, then the women who become pregnant on the island have to miscarry and die because the island doesn't want them to give birth. This DOES NOT make sense to me.
Once again, I DO NOT necessarily agree with this, but Ben's mother dying during childbirth and his issues with that seem to be a more likely cause of the childbirth issues on the island than the island acting on its own.
I guess that it is possilbe in the realm of science fiction, but I would be disappointed if the explanation for all of the mysteries on LOST is that the island is alive and chooses to do things on its own. I would much prefer that the island enables people to do things on their own, such as Locke being able to walk, Kate finding freedom, Sawyer finding the con man who ruined his life, etc.
-Addict
Sorry to keep you waiting, I know you love our discussions lol. I reread your post and I’m not sure where your confusion is. If time, the passengers and the chopper are all in slow motion that would include the copper burning fuel at a slow pace. The amount of fuel the chopper burned on X distance in a 20 minutes of regular time would be the same if they traveled the same X distance but in slow motion. Keep in mind that to the chopper they only experienced a 20 minute trip but to the people on the island it was much longer till they reached the freighter. And I don’t even know if this theory is right, just my best guess at this point.
“So, I don't necessarily believe that the island is trying to save Ben, only that the island trying to save Ben is a more plausible explanation for the crash than Ben causing the crash of the plane because Jack is on it.”
OK, my bad.
“Your theory that Ben got a tumor because the island wants to get rid of him, then the women who become pregnant on the island have to miscarry and die because the island doesn't want them to give birth. This DOES NOT make sense to me.”
A lot of things don’t make sense on the island. How can the island heal, what is the smoke monster? We don’t know what the island wants yet.
“But I would be disappointed if the explanation for all of the mysteries on LOST is that the island is alive and chooses to do things on its own. I would much prefer that the island enables people to do things on their own.”
I have no idea how Lost is going to end but the way it’s going you’re going to be disappointed. Locke believes it was their destiny to be on the island and everyone was brought for a reason. Tom told Michael the island won’t let him die till he’s done whatever work the island wants. The timeline even won’t let people do their own thing. Know matter how hard Desmond tried to save Charlie he still died.
I see what you are saying about if you have work to do then the island keeps you going - but it doesn't fit everything. Not ALL of these people can have 'work to do'. I also keep reminding myself of Ben's 'good' list when the others were kidnapping people - and am dying to get an answer to that one. I always thought that perhaps Ben took persons that he could not manipulate into doing his specific bidding and just used them as new others, while leaving the persons he wanted for specific things ? I don't know - but like I said am waiting to hear that one.
'Fetch the man from Tallahasse' - I never took it so literal that they left to go fetch him. I always just sort of thought that Lock's dad was on the island and Tom went to 'fetch' him to the 'box'.
And as to why wouldn't Ben go to any hsp any where to get surgery - can't see Ben leaving the island for weeks to have pre-surg testing, surgery, rehab. Don't see Mr. Control not being there manipulating his peeps for that long a time. Besides - isn't that around the time that seemed to be hiding the fact that they could no longer come and go as they wanted. I remember him stating that it was important that his people still believe they could, but that they couldn't.
Okay, so it's not a fool proof theory! lol It is pretty vague to say that's why everyone survived the crash. Obviously, what purpose did Boone and Shannon really serve before dying? Shannon, I guess redeemed her way of life from before the crash. Boone was Locke's puppy dog and did as he was told. It might be tied to Jacob's list as well. Good point.
But it reminded me what about my whole Sarah is Annie theory? remember her MIRACULOUS SURGERY? How did she heal? Well we're seeing the island's effects on people POST island. (Michael can't kill himself the island won't let him, Hurley's seeing Charlie, etc...) Well what if Sarah HAD been to the island? I still think we can't rule her out on being involved! And possibly being Annie! lol Of course, I like wild theories every now and then.
As for "get me the man from tallahassee" yeah I thought he might be on the island already too, but what about the episode where Cooper explains how he was brought to the island? He was driving down the highway in Tallahassee and then was in an accident and then just ENDED up on the Island????? Whaa??? They had to get him at some point! Of course, maybe it was the island's bidding and not Ben's and he WAS already on the island when he gave Tom the command. But now that we know Tom can travel off the island, who's to say it WASN'T him that got Cooper?
I think Ben was trying to persuade Locke to destroy the Submarine (in his own ingenius way) to destroy one other method of leaving the island because he doesn't want people to leave it. He told Locke that the Sub was there to maintain the illusion that he might let thme!
Clearly, they could leave the island because we see Tom OFF-ISLAND talking to Michael and this was AFTER the sky turned purple.
As always, I don't have a point...just bringing up stuff as I think about it!
cdstedman,
I may not always be right, but at least I can admit when I am wrong, lol.
Can you please explain to me how the chopper is stuck in slow motion for 16 hours or so in real time, but only burns 20 minutes of fuel? The only way this works is if the chopper goes through a worm hole or time travels. If the helicopter travels a certain distance "X", but much slower, it is definitely going to burn more fuel. If you can drive your car 360 miles on a tank of gas driving an average speed of 55 mph, then I would really enjoy seeing you try to travel that same 360 miles at 5 mph, let alone a slower speed. Like I said, I think if Desmond's mind hadn't gone back to 1996, then time travel or a worm hole would be a more likely theory.
As for the island controlling everything, I still think the show comes down to human will versus fate. Desmond saves Charlie many times, but he was meant to die and once Charlie accepted his fate through his own choice, Desmond let him go. If the island is in control and wanted Charlie to die a certain way, then why go through the hassle of showing flashes to Desmond and allowing him to save Charlie? Are you suggesting that the island has a sick sense of humor?
I may be wrong, but I don't see the ending of LOST being some big reveal about how the island is alive with human like qualities of revenge, humor, compassion, etc. Instead, I think there are unique qualities of the island that enable the people on it.
You said: "A lot of things don’t make sense on the island. How can the island heal, what is the smoke monster? We don’t know what the island wants yet."
Maybe I am too logical, but why would the island (if it is in control as you suggest) allow women to get pregnant if doing so caused them to die? Why wouldn't it just kill them at the time of conception or not allow them to get pregnant at all or prevent them from coming to the island. The only explanation that I can propose if the island is in complete control (as you suggest), is that it enjoys inflicting fear on the people of Eggtown that any women who gets pregnant will die, otherwise this all powerful island is highly inefficient and very unrealistic, even for TV.
I also don't see why the island would crash extra people to only have them die on the island. If the island is alive and so powerful, why would it waste its time? Do you think the island is bored and amusing itself? Furthermore, if the island is alive, why would it let Michael return to New York, if it still needed him?
I think Ben needed his help and manipulated the situation to get Michael back. If Ben or Tom can time travel and knows that Michael was going to buy a certain gun, it is possible that he could have rigged the gun not to fire. The other attempt by Michael to take his life did result in some fairly significant injuries. Could the gun just be manipulation by Ben to get Michael to help him? After all, if Mike's theory of Michael being in the coffin is correct, then Michael didn't have to go back to the island to die unless you are suggesting that the island allowed Michael to leave knowing that it still needed him, brought him back, then allowed him to return to the states only to kill himself.
-Addict
“Can you please explain to me how the chopper is stuck in slow motion for 16 hours or so in real time, but only burns 20 minutes of fuel?”
Because the chopper is not in real time, it’s in slow motion time (it might be a wormhole I don’t know?). You still have it in your head that everything is in slow motion BUT the fuel consumption. I don’t know how else to explain it, is anyone else having trouble with what I’m trying to say because I need (physiological?) help.
As for everything else you said I think there is something supernatural about the island (Charlie being dead but he’s here) but I don’t think it’s in control of every little detail on the island. Some people can and do die on the show. And I agree that I hope it doesn’t turn out that it’s human like, I want them to keep it vague so we stay wondering about what it is. But I think it has some sort of a plan and is trying to see it through.
You want them to stay Vague on something? Yikes. I think if fans are gonna get P.O.'d about anything at the end of LOST, I would think the ol' "INTERPRETIVE ENDING" would be #1 on the list! lol
If there's anything that people have been begging for for 4 seasons...it is ANSWERS! To not explain why the Island is what it is would be a major failure to deliver in my opinon.
But to take a side on Faith vs. Science is also a tough direction to take the show since it's always been ambiguous for its entire run.
Man, I love contradicting myself! lol I know you weren't talking about keeping the entire end vague and were mainly talking about the Island's "Controlling" abilities. But I gotta think there is more behind that than meets the eye too. Kinda like addict said, maybe Michael's gun was fixed not to go off (of course it didn't have to be time travel...maybe they just went to the guy in the pawn shop). Maybe that accident was arranged to distract Jack from suicide. Walt appeared to stop Locke from suicide. or maybe everyone truly BELIEVES the island is doing all of these things, when there really is something or someone behind it. Like "the man behind the curtain"
There I go rambling again. But as you can see, I am totally not PRO-INTERPRETIVE ENDINGS! lol Who am I kidding? if they did it....I'd still give it a WOW in the blog! lol
cdstedman,
Okay, I am trying to work with you here. If the fuel is being used in slow motion as well, then wouldn't that mean the rotors would also be in slow motion? Next, are you going to tell me that gravity was also in slow motion, lol.
Also, was only the 1 or 2 minutes in the middle of the flight in slow motion? I don't remember the other Losties or the freighties commenting about watching the helicopter take off or land over a period of hours, lol.
Seriously, if everything you said is true, then don't you think Sayid would have noticed the sun slowly rising during his 16 hour slow motion helicopter ride? Even if he blinked in slow motion, he still would have noticed the sun rise taking a really long time. He probably would have asked Frank something like "why did the sun take sooooooooooo long to rise" instead of "how did we take of at dusk and land in the middle of the afternoon."
Please don't try to convince me that his IQ ability somehow became slow as well or I am likely to accuse you of being in a permanent state of slow motion, lol.
Come on man, don't be soooooooooooooo stubborn, it is time to give up on this theory. Sorry about the long so, my computer must have been in slow motion for a second, lol.
-Addict
The gun malfunctioning doesn't have to be sabotage via time travel, but I got the feeling that Michael immediately bought a gun upon entering the store (no 3 day wait rule or anything). So unless it was chance with either the gun not going off or Tom picking the right gun store in NYC (unlikely), someone had to know that Michael would go to that store to try to buy a gun and maybe even what gun. Unless of course, you buy into the island having human like qualities, which I don't. I think Ben got wind of Widmore's boat and needed someone he could manipulate to be his spy. He already knew and manipulated Michael once, so he knew how to get to him again. Convincing Michael that the island would never let him die with the gun sabotage would be manipulation fitting for Ben.
I know that the gun issue might not involve time travel, but the show introduced it more than once with Desmond and it seems to fit this situation. I think time travel to explain how Tom knew where to find Michael makes more sense than the Others being able to monitor the whole world or placing tracking devices on people, etc.
As for the Sarah is Annie theory, I like it, but I don't know that I believe it. Sarah didn't seem to heal any faster than normal. She seemed to have to go through a lot of rehab just so she could dance at her wedding. As for the surgery itself, I think it was done to show Jack's excellence as a spinal surgeon (backstory) so that his ability to save Ben with limited resources as well as nicking his artery only to be able to save Ben in the "nick" of time is believable by the audience.
The other problem I have with this theory is that Ben had Goodwin eliminated for sleeping with Juliette. He also won't allow Juliette to leave the island and we know that Ben can bring people to the island. So why would he allow his childhood "girlfriend" to marry and live with Jack off the island? I think if Sarah is Annie and Ben knew about her, then he would have brought her back to the island, not planted her into Jack's life.
Final thought for now: I have rewatched some of the episodes recently and something Dan says during "The Constant" really bothers me. He talks about the side effects of what is happening with Desmond as sometimes happening to people exposed to high levels of radiation/electromagnetism. So my question is this, is he talking about time travel or travel to and from the island? As far as we know, the only person who Dan has come in contact with who has traveled to and from the island is Michael (assuming that he knows about Michael and hasn't encountered Ethan, Richard, Ben, Tom, or the spy). None of the freighties have traveled to and from the island other than Frank and Naomi's never again mentioned corpse at this point. Remember that the two freighties who got sick never reached the island and due to the progression of their sickness probably traveled and/or got sick after Dan reached the island. If not, a few subjects isn't enough evidence for Dan to draw this conclusion and what high levels of radiation or electromagnetism has the boat been exposed to? So this leads me to believe that he is talking about time travel.
This would explain the whole 20 minutes versus 16 hours helicopter ride as well as Dan having Desmond as his constant.
-Addict
All good points Addict. Like I said...sometimes I like some wild and crazy theories that probably aren't true! As for Jack being an excellent surgeon...yeah I'm sure it was that. But what about Jack thinking that he didn't solve the issue in surgery? He was ready to tell Sarah that she was paralyzed for life. And then people came to him again for a MIRACLE and he couldn't deliver. I don't know. I've always thought there was something more there. But maybe not.
As for the Side Effects. I just thought Dan was referring to Minkowski and how the results vary because Minkowski was traveling back in time with his present consciousness. And of course whoever George was on the boat with. So Dan was able to see several people on the freighter go a little nuts. I think they were sitting off the coast for some time before they got the call from Jack at the end of season 3. So they were seeing some effects of the island. That's why Jack asked "This has happened before?" Those are my thoughts anyway lol
Doc Jensen is up. I had read this before, but it IS another good theory about the Island and everything we've been discussing with "The island won't let you"
"Michael's suicide immunity has far-reaching implications.
In the tease he gave us for this episode, executive producer Damon Lindelof told us ''Meet Kevin Johnson'' would explain why flash-forward Grizzly Jack couldn't jump from the bridge in last year's season finale. As promised, the episode supplied an answer, though we had to puzzle it out for ourselves. According to Mr. Friendly (whose appearance would rank No. 4 on my Cool Bits list if I went that far), the reason why Michael couldn't kill himself is that the Island wouldn't let him; apparently, Twilight Zone isle has influence beyond itself, too. Similarly, we can surmise that the Island refused to allow Jack to jump by calling him away from the edge with a car crash that required his heroic intervention. Of course, this raises the question ''Why?'' The most likely answer is suggested by the theorizing of Lost fans like J. Wood of powells.com, who for quite some time has advocated the idea that the Island is a place where past, present, and future happen all at once. A slightly different articulation of the same idea would be this: The Island is a place where the future has already happened. Hence, Jack and Michael can't kill themselves because they are needed to fulfill their roles in the Island's future drama — parts that, in a sense, have already been played out. Have I just totally confused you? "
whole thing is here:
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20188031,00.html
Liking Doc's theory - which is unusual for me - that the O6 are on the island right now waiting for themselves to leave.
Even thought a step further - are they at 'The Sanctuary' ?!?
Bes specifically told Alex to go there, and that it's not for 'them' and that could be because their future selves are there.
man i copied/pasted that section right before a meeting and just finally read the rest. WOW I LOVE that theory! for once it makes total sense...almost like Jensen went to hawaii and actually got THE ANSWERS from Darlton themselves. And if that IS the case....i am going to be really P.O.'d because that is a BIG BIG reveal! lol
But it really makes sense...especially with adding in the whole Temple as the sanctuary for the returned Oceanic 6. That would be super nuts.
Of course, I'm sure it's just another wild theory of Doc Jensen's that won't be even close. But of anything he's ever come up with...THAT made sense!
cdstedman:
I agree with your slow motion theory. Like a time "bubble" that they have to fly through to get off/on the island.
addict:
If time is moving slow in this "time bubble", that means everything in the bubble would move slow, including the rotor speed and the fuel consumption, but that would not cause them to crash because ALL molecules would be slowed down (including the molecules of air at different pressures causing the lift keeping them in the air).
Also, imagine watching a "real time" video in slow motion. The person in that real time video would see things going at a normal speed because everything in their "bubble" is operating at the same "slowdown rate" as they are (i just made that term up, LOL). So, 20 minutes of their time passes, but you were playing the video 1/3 speed, so 1 hour passed for you. So, if you slow it down even more, a day could pass outside the bubble while only 20 minutes pass inside it.
As far as the daylight issue, light would also move at slow motion (however, it would be slow to people on the outside of the bubble, but on the inside of the bubble everything would appear normal).
And they probably came out of the bubble before they were within sight of the freighter. That is why nobody saw them moving at slow motion. When they came out, all of a sudden the sun is in a different part of the sky which is why Sayeed says something.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GcatQSyRK6c
What? Check out this YouTube video regarding our favorite Thursday night TV show (calling Lost a TV show just doesn't do it justice).
thoroughly enjoyed the youtube clip. good times! lol
weasel/cdstedman:
I would have so much more respect for both of you if you went with a worm hole theory or even normal time travel.
So the helicopter travels at normal speed while in sight of the island and in sight of the freighter, but somewhere in between gets caught in a "bubble". Weasel what you grossly fail to realize is that the physics required to keep a helicopter off the ground has far reaching effects on the air molecules, a greater distance than one can hear a helicopter. That would be one huge "bubble". These same molecules inside this "bubble" also have to interact with the molecules outside of this "bubble" in order to keep the lift of the helicopter along a constant vector or the helicopter would continue to lift higher and higher. Next, you are going to try to tell me that Frank counteracted this effect by knowing that he was in a "bubble" (how, I have no idea) and was trying to fly the helicopter into the ocean until the precise moment when the helicopter escapes the "bubble" at which point he quickly course corrects without anyone noticing. Also, the effect of gravity wouldn't disappear as the "bubble" itself would still be subjected to the force of gravity, pulling the entire "bubble" into the ocean. Even crazier is the fact that you contradict yourself by implying that the sun rising to midday would happen at a different rate inside this "bubble" than on the outside of it. Sorry, but this is ridiculous. You can't argue the "bubble" theory, i.e., that molecules inside the bubble don't interact with the molecules outside of it and still allow that the sunlight penetrates the "bubble" in such a way as to not make it obvious to Sayid that the sun is moving to midday during his flight. To go with your idea of watching people on tape in slow motion, if they are outside and the sun is setting, then it is happening at real "speed" for them in that everything is moving slower, but we still see the sun moving slower. So are you trying to say that the rest of the world saw the sun move slower with Sayid in this "bubble" or that Sayid wasn't able to see the sun while in his "bubble" or that the sunlight captured inside his "bubble" was in slow motion, but also unable to allow any additional sunlight from outside this "bubble" in? Pick one, but realize that your "bubble" theory will pop regardless. Go with the worm hole or time travel theory, but please stop trying to justify a theory with nonsense or at the very least take a college level physics course.
-Addict
well...another Hour of LOST this season!
"OK, I've left you hanging long enough, Ausholes. The scintillating piece of Lost prattle I've been holding over your heads since Ask Ausiello went live early this morning (i.e., the better-than-the-coffin-reveal scoop) goes a little something like this....
According to one of my 815 snitches, Team Darlton is in advanced talks with ABC to produce — wait for it, wait for it — an additional hour of Lost this season!
[The crowd roars]
Now, before you go French-kissing a total stranger out of sheer elation, my source stresses that this is by no means a done deal. In fact, the scheduling hurdles alone are enough to make a grown man cry. But you have to admit, the prospect of a 14th hour is a tantalizing one. And it raises so darn many questions. For instance:
• If the dream becomes a reality, how would it work? As it stands, Lost's Season 4 climax is slated to air on May 22 on a season-finale-themed night that also includes the cappers of Ugly Betty and Grey's Anatomy. So would the additional Lost hour be broadcast the following Thursday? Or would it perhaps run on another night?
• What does this do to the finale that was going to air on May 22? Would elements of it be incorporated into the new finale? Would this 14th hour come before that episode? And since we were originally supposed to get 16 eppies this season before the strike cut that number back to 13, does this mean we would now be getting a season finale that is more in line with what Darlton intended? Or more exposition that they ran out of time to include? The mind boggles.
So what do you think, people? And where does the line for the 14th-hour prayer group form? I'm in. "
http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Ausiello-Report/Ausiello-Scoop-Lost/800037127
i guess i should've said "POTENTIALLY" an extra hour lol I got a little excited and copy/pasted before i read it!
Mike
Don’t get me wrong I want answers! I’m just saying they don’t have to have a light coming down from the sky with a figure saying “I am the island.” I’d be happy if they just reveal the islands purpose and motives for want is planed for the 815ers and can leave the figure up to the fans. By the way I did read that the producers loved the Sopranos ending. I can see the ending now, Jack and Locke sitting at a table on the island drinking tea out of coconuts. They clink coconuts Jack says “To faith.” Locke says “To science.” They drink just as Ben steps out behind a tree with a gun, fade to black BOOM Lost. lol
Addict
lol. I find it extremely funny that you will accept the worm hole or time travel theory but you dust off your old physics book to try and rip a time bubble theory out of the water. It’s a TV show with a black smoke monster flying around. Not everything is based on facts. The writers can make up anything they want to make the show interesting and I’m all for it. Is the time bubble or slower time right? Probably not. For all I know Ben’s evil twin from dimension X secretly spread peanut butter in the choppers blades to slow it down and that’s why it took so long for them to get to the freighter. There’s lots of ideas floating out there so lets move on.
lol loved the "I am the island" comment...that would be so much better than a CUT TO BLACK! lol Yes the Producers did love the Sopranos ending but they made it very clear that their show would actually have a logical END and it would not be like the Sopranos lol
I see what you're saying though. Some answers we'll be able to deduce for ourselves instead of them blatantly telling us. Speaking of the Sopranos, David Chase says the same about the end of the Sopranos. He won't answer any questions about it because he claims all of the answers are already within the show itself. Whatever Chase! I want an "I AM THE ISLAND!" line! lol
Still perplexed by this EXTRA hour of LOST and how they'd possibly do it at this late in the game....here's what i posted on the TV Guide site
"Well, in one of the post-strike interviews I had read....the plotlines that were cut from this season included storylines dealing with the Other Freighter people (i.e. not the 4 we've been introduced to)
So I guess one way they could just "splice in" an episode into season 4 would be to do an episode like "The Other 48 Days" that wasn't really a Flashback or Flashforward episode as it was a Chronological view of the 48 days that the tail section passengers went through.
Another option would be to do Rousseau's Backstory that they keep saying they want to do. Other than that, I don't know how they could possibly be leaving this on the table at this late in the game. They either would've had the utmost confidence that ABC would approve so they wrote it with the extra hour in mind anyway....or they are going to adjust already written scripts (which just seems late).
But...i don't think Team Darlton would steer us wrong! So, I'm sure they know what they're doing! I'm excited for a 14th hour this season. My big question would be...is this negotiating in ADDITION to the 3 season 48 episode order, or is it included in the 48? I remember in season 1 that they requested an extra hour for the season finale because they needed 3 hours to tell that story. I'm sure we'll be filled in soon enough."
Isn't Jack accepting faith and Locke accepting science a logical ending? Watch for it, I see this ending coming. lol
lol...we shall see indeed and because we would've already seen in some kind of flashback or flashforward the ultimate end for Jack and Locke....we can deduce for ourselves what ben did! lol
cdstedman,
Finally you see my point. Yes, I realize it is Lost and a TV show so they can do anything they want. They have already introduced time travel which is closely tied to worm holes, which makes them plausible for the show although not likely in reality.
On the other hand, you and Weasel keep trying to offer ridiculous explanations for how a "bubble" is a viable option. It isn't realistic in real life (even though you both keep trying to say it is) and the show has made no indication that we should be making stuff like "bubbles" up.
Glad to see that you are finally willing to see the futility in your argument and let it go, now just waiting for Weasel.
By the way, no need to "dust off a physics book", just common sense for someone who has taken college level physics courses, lol.
-Addict
cdstedman,
You wrote: "I don’t know how else to explain it, is anyone else having trouble with what I’m trying to say because I need (physiological?) help."
My answer to your above question in regards to the slow motion/"bubble" theory is "yes" and maybe some psychological help as well, lol.
To me, you arguing this theory up to this point would be the equivalent of me saying that Frank caused the time and sun issues by clicking his red heeled shoes together and kept on arguing about how Frank was wearing red heeled shoes and we just didn't notice it. Is this possible in TV land, sure, but you and Weasel kept trying to say up until today how it is completely plausible in the realm of physics for the whole situation to take place if we allow for slow motion or the "bubble".
Anyways, I am glad you finally saw the light (whether you say the sun slowly rise over 16 hours or really fast over 30 minutes, lol).
-Addict
Man you just don’t know how to let it go do you, lol.
You seem to understand that it’s just a fictional TV show but when someone has a theory you don’t agree with you just throw the “It isn't realistic in real life” phrase to discount it (by the way I never said it was realistic in real life, don’t know where you got that from). This coming from the man who thinks the island is moving around (see your March 21 post). lol Is that realistic? Where in the show is it indicated that the island is moving? Did your common sense come up with that or your college level physics courses? I’d have a lot more respect for you if you admit right now that the island does not move and is if fact remaining still somewhere in the ocean. (And just so there’s no misunderstanding I am saying all this in jest Addict) Like I said in my last post it’s time to move on and until they give us more information about the nature of what happens between the island and the outside world I’m not commenting on it further. You have your island moving theory and I have mine. Now Addict let’s move onto some more important questions. Who’s hotter, Kate or Juliet?
finally found that michael crichton quote. It's from the april 30th 2007 podcast:
"Lindelhof says the mysteries of lost will involve pseudo-science and possibly the supernatural. 'Basically anything that appears in a Michael Crichton novel - dinosaurs, nanobots, time travel -- they're all in play.'"
Of course the smoke monster being nano-technology has apparently been debunked by the producers as well lol.
This also sheds some light on their inspiration for LOST
"Carlton Cuse: Yes, let me ask you this question Damon. H-Rock 80 writes.. "It seems as if the writers on this show are big movie buffs, what are some of the movies that have influenced you and this show?".
Damon Lindelof: There are so many, every opportunity we get to rip off something we pretty much jumped at. When JJ and I had her first meeting a variety of movie references started flying around.. 50 First Dates and American Pie pretty much. Lassie. No, mostly science fiction movies came up. We talked about, Aliens and we talked a lot about episodes of the Twilight Zone. We talked a lot about the Crichton world. One of the things that Michael Crichton does, in movies such as Jurassic Park and The West World. He takes science fiction concepts and brings them into the real world. Which is what we want to do on Lost. So those movies certainly influenced the formation of the show.
Carlton Cuse: But truthfully I think there's a lot of television and book influences as well and both of us have to give a shout out to Stephen King. Stephen King is so artful at blending science fiction or horror concepts with really compelling character stories, and that is so much a model for what we are doing on the show. I mean those books of his sustain for 800/1000 pages. Not because of the mythology but because the characters are so damn cool! "
So yes...we need to consider what happens in REAL LIFE, but with a Science-Fiction twist. lol TIME BUBBLES? Well, I'll leave that to you guys to keep debating unless you want to debate Kate and Juliet instead!
Good post mike.
And Kate so much hotter. And anyone who doesn’t agree with me thinks the terrorist should win!
Glad my post meets your approval Sted! lol
Of course, whoever transcribed that podcast that i copied/pasted needs a serious lesson in spelling! lol
cdstedman,
"This coming from the man who thinks the island is moving around (see your March 21 post)."
I prefaced the above comment by saying it sounded crazy and didn't spend WEEKS trying to prove why it could actually happen. Up until recently, you never used the "it's a TV show" defense about your slow motion/"bubble" theory. No, instead you insisted on how it could actually work if you allowed for slow motion, the fuel being used more slowly, the blades rotating slower, etc. You were wrong in your continuous stupid defense of your theory and have yet to admit it. Instead, you just want it to go away like your childhood memories of being picked on by all the other kids, lol.
As for the Kate/Juliet question, it is a nice distractionary tactic on your part, but I am guessing that YOU are actually more into the Jack/Sawyer question, lol.
For the record, I go with Kate.
-Addict
Addict
Yes you did preface it by saying it’s crazy but I’ve stated many times that my theory is probably not true and that didn’t seem good enough for you so your preface doesn’t mean much to me either.
Yes your right, I didn’t use the "it's a TV show" up until recently. I assumed a college level physics coarse taking person like yourself already knew it was a TV show and that was something I didn’t have to remind you. So just for future reference. Addict. Lost is a TV show. That square in front of you is a TV set. It’s not a magic box that’s just talking to you. Yes, I have a set of my own and can hear it to. Don’t be fooled by other programs either Addict. On that Battlestar Galactica show where they’re looking for earth, we’re already on earth so don’t worry about it. That dancing stars show, they aren’t really stars. There’s not a secret race of yellow skinned people no matter what the Simpson’s look like. And for god’s sake, 4 payments of $39.99 is not a good deal for that thigh master you just ordered no matter what Suzan Summers tells you. lol
cdstedman,
For pete's sake, YOU CAN'T ADMIT IT WHEN YOU ARE WRONG. You argued from the airing of "The Constant" to today about how your theory could actually work.
I am finding you stupider by the post. You said that your theory was probably wrong, but continued to argue that it was feasible. I think we would all agree that most of our theories aren't right, but you seem to be the only one to continue to argue first about how your theory really is plausible and now that you aren't wrong for doing so.
How many posts ago did you say that you were going to let this go, lol?
You can't seem to accept your faults and move on. You need to realize that you can't go back to grade school and be cool, no matter how many miles you run or how many times you post an icon picture (of you?) running, lol. Thus, I reiterate my earlier post that you are in need of physiological and psychological help, lol.
I am really starting to feel sorry for you though, and am starting to wonder if your mind is in a constant state of slow motion, lol.
-Addict
cdstedman,
Your illogical reasoning presents itself YET AGAIN.
You said: "I assumed a college level physics coarse taking person like yourself already knew it was a TV show and that was something I didn’t have to remind you. So just for future reference. Addict. Lost is a TV show."
Once again, you are being stupid. You didn't know that I took college level physics coarses when you continued your month long defense of your ridiculous theory. Instead, you used the "it's a TV show" defense after I posted about how I have taken these classes.
I am sure that you are used to running in circles, but a bit of advice: it isn't good to have your arguments go in circles, lol.
-Addict
Kate is definiitely hotter...just thought I'd add my two cents! :-)
Mike
It's your blog so if your getting tired of Addict and myself going back and forth say the word and i'll stop, you could be enjoying it i don't know. lol otherwise I know I said I was going to end this but Addict, your fun. lol
“You said that your theory was probably wrong, but continued to argue that it was feasible.”
It is feasible within the confines of…
wait for it…
wait for it…
“a fictional TV show.” At this point in the story its "feasible" that the Smurfs will pop out of the DARMA mushroom hatch and Ben kidnaps Smurfette because he found out she’s pregnant. Mike’s last post of the podcast said “takes science fiction concepts and brings them into the real world.” Just because their bringing fictional aspects into the real world doesn’t mean it has to be provable within the real world. It’s still fiction and not the first time slow time or time bubble or worm hole or time travel has been on a TV show.
“but you seem to be the only one to continue to argue first about how your theory really is plausible.” “but you seem to be the only one to continue to argue first about how your theory really is plausible.”
No, I believe this is how our interactions have gone. I presented a theory, you asked questions about it, I answered them, you didn’t like my answers, I tried to clear up your questions again, you still didn’t like my answers and said I was dehydrated, I was then confused about your passion on debunking said theory, you informed me of your college level coarse taking ability, I explained how said theory could possibly happen in a fictional TV world, you called me stupid. (I’m paraphrasing of coarse lol)
“Once again, you are being stupid. You didn't know that I took college level physics coarses when you continued your month long defense of your ridiculous theory. Instead, you used the "it's a TV show" defense after I posted about how I have taken these classes.”
The fact that I said it after you stated your schooling doesn’t mean it wasn’t a TV show before that knowledge. It always has been a TV show and as I stated in my last post (maybe you should reread it cause I think your still confused about it) I didn’t know I had to remind you of that fact before every post.
cdstedman,
You said: "I assumed a college level physics coarse taking person like yourself already knew it was a TV show and that was something I didn’t have to remind you. So just for future reference. Addict. Lost is a TV show."
I will try to walk you through this since you are getting stupider by the post.
You proposed your slow motion theory. I questioned it, you defended how it could work for over a MONTH (not using the "it's a TV show" rationale). I showed how it was ridiculous to keep defending your theory through physics and said that I have taken physics classes. THEN, you threw out the "it's a TV show" rationale. NOW (yesterday, 4/9)you say that you didn't need to use the "it's a TV show" rationale for the last month because I took college physics courses. WAIT FOR IT. . . YOU MORON, YOU DIDN"T USE THE "IT'S A TV SHOW" RATIONALE FOR THE LAST MONTH EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT I HAD TAKEN THE COLLEGE PHYSICS CLASSES UNTIL 4/9 (YESTERDAY).
SO YOUR REASONING FOR CONTINUING TO DEFEND A STUPID THEORY AND NOT SAYING THE SIMPLE THING THAT IT IS A TV SHOW OR ANYTHING CAN HAPPEN ON TV IS BECAUSE YOU KNEW I HAD TAKEN COLLEGE PHYSICS COURSES!! ARE YOU THAT STUPID OR ARE YOU GOING TO CLAIM TO SEE THE FUTURE NOW (i.e., YOU KNEW ALL ALONG THAT I HAD TAKEN COLLEGE PHYSICS COURSES).
cdstedman, you can post as many responses as you like (after you said you are done with this several posts ago), but it isn't going to change the fact that your theory is/was wrong (outside of anything can happen on a TV show), and have yet to admit that you were wrong.
You keep grasping for a way for you to be right, LET IT GO MAN. Post another picture (of you?) running on another topic or admit you were wrong. But we all know that won't happen . . .
-Addict
cdstedman,
Please take a moment to actually carefully read my previous post and consider the timeline of events before you post another ridiculous defense.
-Addict
“it isn't going to change the fact that your theory is/was wrong (outside of anything can happen on a TV show)”
YES!!! You finally get it!! Every theory that everyone in the history of the Lost TV show has thought of can only happen on a TV show. Congratulations! You now know the difference between the real world and the TV world. I’m so excited for you, you’ve made a real breakthrough today!!!!
cdstedman aka LITTLE BOY,
Just like I thought, you fail to recognize the simple fact that we all knew long ago that it is a TV show and yet you still argued the merits of a ridiculous theory. You kept on trying to say that if one accepts slow motion for the helicopter how your theory works, but it doesn't. You are acting like a 5 year old LITTLE BOY when you are told you are wrong. You throw a fit and can't be reasoned with.
You completely ignore the logic of my arguments and act like a 5 year old kid and latch onto your next ridiculous idea, i.e., I didn't know that LOST was a TV show.
Grow up, LITTLE BOY. A real man would have owned up to your mistake a long time ago or at least kept his word to let it go. You are PATHETIC, lol.
-Addict
"NOW (yesterday, 4/9)you say that you didn't need to use the "it's a TV show" rationale for the last month because I took college physics courses."
"YOU DIDN"T USE THE "IT'S A TV SHOW" RATIONALE FOR THE LAST MONTH EVEN THOUGH YOU DIDN'T KNOW THAT I HAD TAKEN THE COLLEGE PHYSICS CLASSES UNTIL 4/9 (YESTERDAY)."
It didn’t matter whether I knew you had taken college level courses or not, I assumed that you had the intelligence to know that it was a TV show without having to be reminded by me. But it doesn’t matter, with your breakthrough today I bet there’s a huge weight lifted of your shoulders. The sky is bluer, the flowers smell sweeter and the birds are chirping in harmony. Be well my friend for you have made it!
“Just like I thought, you fail to recognize the simple fact that we all knew long ago that it is a TV show and yet you still argued the merits of a ridiculous theory.”
How can you even write this sentence with your breakthrough only minutes ago? You must be relapsing. Until the writers tell us the real truth all theories have merit in a TV show. It’s not real so real world physics to debunk a fictional theory is not valid.
little boy,
You are still trying to rationalize your whining and why your theory wasn't really wrong (aka someone else must be at fault).
You are so PATHETIC, saying it doesn't matter about when you knew I took the physics classes because I just realized today that LOST is a TV show. Once again, you won't own up to your mistakes. Instead, you keep talking nonsense, acting like the LITTLE BOY you are.
Like I said, a real man would have owned up to his mistake by now and moved on or kept his word to stop his whining, but not you.
I wonder how long you will keep digging your hole. Based on your IQ that you so proudly display on your running shirt, it is going to take a long time. Since you defended a ridiculous theory for over a month, my guess is you'll keep throwing your fit and whining for even longer.
-Addict
Little Boy,
Anything can happen on TV, yes. So why do you/did you continue to try to rationalize why your slow motion theory would work, FOR OVER A MONTH, when it can't and still not own up to it?
Why debate whether your theory is possible with physics (something you obviously know very little about)if your end argument is anything is possible on TV.
GROW UP LITTLE BOY.
-Addict
You guys were just trying to get to 100 comments weren't you? lol
Stedman/Addict...I may not ever read every word of your banters, but they are a good time! I would never turn away people that want to share their opinions here at the LOST Addicts Blog! lol
Plus, it keeps the COMMENT Count up and makes the blog look more successful than it is! lol (although, it has come a long way since the early days! so I thank you for your help in keeping it active!)
LITTLE BOY,
You are not very smart. I tried for over a month to try to logically reason with you how a helicopter couldn't fly in slow motion for 16 hours. You kept trying to show me how it could happen in slow motion. Now that I have more than proven this to not be possible if one allows for slow motion travel, you keep going with this argument that I didn't know Lost is a TV show.
Once again, grow up. Stop throwing a fit, act like a man.
Mike,
I trust your judgement and we won't know the truth until the writers reveal it, but don't you think it is more plausible that the time difference in the helicopter ride is due to time travel or a worm hole and NOT slow motion travel/"bubble" theory.
-Addict
Oh come on man, don't put me in the middle! lol
Truth is, I think it's Time Travel of SOME SORT....I just don't understand how they end up being able to communicate in Real-Time...and it's the same time on the island as off...but the traveling between the time gets all screwed up. Daniel says that their perception of how long they've been gone is not exactly how long they have been gone. And instead of explaining it really slowly so we could understand (kudos to less hotter than Kate but better actress Juliet) we get nothing! So what do I think? I am at a total loss. Except for the fact that this conversation DID take place in a Time Travel-centric episode. So should we tie the two events together? Most Likely.
That's my opinion! Guess I better go get on that treadmill and prepare for Stedman's wrath! lol
“you continue to try to rationalize why your slow motion theory would work, FOR OVER A MONTH”
You’ll notice that I haven’t argued the theory for a long time. What I’ve been arguing with you is the validity of every Lost theory and why is it wrong just because you say so. Your ego is so big because you went to a class that even the fictional TV world should bow to your knowledge.
“You completely ignore the logic of my arguments”
Get over yourself and come to the realization that like YOU said “anything can happen in a TV show” so the logic you learned in physics class means nothing.
“You are acting like a 5 year old LITTLE BOY when you are told you are wrong. You throw a fit and can't be reasoned with.”
LOL, you’re the one calling me stupid, pathetic and a moron. Which one of us is throwing a fit?
“real man would have owned up to his mistake by now and moved on”
What mistake do I need to own up to? It’s a theory or guess I have about a show. A guess can’t be a mistake, only wrong. And if it turns out I’m wrong than I’m wrong.
Mike you’re quite the politician. lol
do you mean answering the question without really answering it? lol yeah, that's my specialty!
LITTLE BOY,
Let me paraphrase your latest post:
waa, boo hoo, waaa.
You are beyond logical reasoning. YOU FAIL TO REALIZE THE FOLLOWING:
that if one accepts your theory that the helicopter was moving in slow motion, it still couldn't happen. Every episode that I have watched has still had gravity, sunlight, etc.
You are really stupid because you refuse to accept reason. YES IT IS A TV SHOW. I highly doubt that any other sane viewer would think that the writers are going to throw out gravity, the dual nature theory of light, the rotation of the Earth, etc. for your theory to work, EVEN ON TV.
You won't own up to the fact that your theory is ridiculous even for a TV SHOW like LOST. The discrepancy in the helicopter ride time happened during an episode about time travel, which leads sane viewers to make the connection.
Only in the LITTLE BOY's world where you can't be wrong, would you insist on your theory being probable and continue to throw a fit.
-Addict
Mike,
If LITTLE BOY keeps throwing his tantrum like we all know he will, then your comment tally might hit 200, lol.
-Addict
LITTLE BOY,
I am not throwing a fit, only stating the obvious about your inability to see/admit that your theory isn't plausible for LOST because on this TV show, gravity still exists, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, etc.
As for me negating all LOST theories, I disagree. We all give pros and cons about theories. I have even given reasons why some of your theories might fit, but watch out for the well known wrath of LITTLE BOY (even Mike mentions it, lol) if someone proves one of LITTLE BOY's theories wrong.
By the way, I will drop the LITTLE BOY moniker once you start acting like an adult, lol.
-Addict
LITTLE BOY,
I need to apologize for calling and/or insinuating that you are a moron and/or stupid. You have valid comments and ideas on lots of topics concerning LOST, but I do think you ARE ACTING like a moron and/or BEING stupid when it comes to your defense of your slow motion theory. Trying to equate your defense of it to defending all LOST theories is a stretch, in my opinion, and further supports my latest theory that you aren't willing to admit that your slow motion theory won't work in the parameters (i.e., gravity, Earth's rotation, etc.) that have been laid out for us on LOST. There is nothing wrong with being stubborn, but admit when you are wrong and MOVE ON.
-Addict
“By the way, I will drop the LITTLE BOY moniker once you start acting like an adult, lol.”
I think I have been acting like an adult, well, more of an adult than you. lol
“watch out for the well known wrath of LITTLE BOY (even Mike mentions it, lol)”
I don’t have a wrath. I already commented on Mike’s post and it was far from wrathful. Lol By the way I think he was being sarcastic, but they don’t teach sarcasm is physics class so I understand we you didn’t catch that.
“As for me negating all LOST theories, I disagree.”
Than you have to get over all the real world logic and embrace the possibility that fiction happens in TV shows.
Are we having fun yet? lol
Addict
Ok I posted my last post before I read yours. So disregard it. We’re talking civilly now. Here’s what I’ll do. I’ll go through my theory and repost it tomorrow and bring together everything we’ve been talking about so we’re not talking in pieces anymore. I’ll put in all the Lost info that supports it and let you reread it and we can see if I can make you see the possibility of slower time. What do your say?
Yes to Sarcasm...another one of my specialties! lol But very tough to convey in TEXT. But I try my best!
LITTLE BOY,
Don't bother reposting your theory unless at the end of it you are going to say gravity, the dual nature of light, Earth's rotation, etc. are going to be thrown out on LOST by the writers to prove your slow motion theory correct. I know it is TV, but I don't remember anybody in the helicopter floating from a lack of gravity, or the basic theories of light being defied to even make your theory plausible.
You say that I didn't learn sarcasm is physics class. That's just nonsense. Comments like these show how much you are reaching to try to show that your slow motion theory is correct. If you remember, I introduced sarcasm in our back and forth exchanges by telling you that you were dehydrated from running too much.
You wrote: "Than [sic] you have to get over all the real world logic and embrace the possibility that fiction happens in TV shows."
This makes no sense to me, since I have already posed and/or agree with theories about time travel, etc. You are throwing out all sorts of arguments why you have to be right, but my argument is very simple: gravity, dual nature of light, Earth's rotation etc. have been shown to still exist on LOST and in order for your slow motion theory to work, you have to throw each of them out the window.
Why do you continue to try to put forth an uncompatible theory for the helicopter ride concerning a "bubble" around it moving in slow motion than to accept the parameters that the writers have already established on LOST such as gravity does exist, the sun rises in the East and sets in the West, etc. Add this to the fact that the whole incident takes place during a time travel episode, and time travel, a worm hole, or some other theory that still works within the LOST parameters is the reason for the time difference and not your slow motion theory.
You continue to make my point about you acting stupid by throwing a fit by continuing to admit that your theory isn't realistic given the parameters that the LOST writers have given us. You just can't admit that ONE of your theories doesn't work and refuse to MOVE ON.
-Addict
Ok, I tried to be civil.
cdstedman,
Just for the record, the writers may choose to have things going to and from the island be in slow motion without any "real life" explanation, but my problem with you all along has been that you and Weasel have continued to try to give "real life" reasons (slower rotation of the rotors, slower fuel pick up, Sayid seeing the sun move in slow motion, etc.) why your theory would still work if one allows for slow motion travel.
Then, when I try to explain to you and Weasel in a rational way that your "real life" reasons contradict the laws of physics, you start with your fit about anything can happen on TV, I didn't know LOST was a TV show, I debunk any LOST theory etc.
Your mistake that I have been trying to point out to you and get you to admit for over a day now is that you and Weasel were trying to rationalize how your slow motion theory is possible through real life explanations rather than just saying that it is a TV show and the writers can do anything they want.
Rather than accept the above paragraph and agree that my points were valid you have chosen to continue on your rant/fit.
I personally think that the worm hole or time travel theories are a better fit for what we have seen thus far on LOST, but IF your slow motion theory turns out to be the one put forth by the writers, I will congratualte you.
-Addict
and now for something completely different....
new Doc Jensen column
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20190415,00.html
it's regarding his trip to Hawaii. Haven't read it yet, and I'm scared he'll spoil something else. but i'm sure i will.
Mike
If you don't want to be spoiled, whatever you do don't watch the video at the end. All I’ll say is beware the LOST pigeon. lol
consider me spoiled...i couldn't resist watching a VIDEO! That being said...it could be for a flashback!
the column was kinda spoilerish/kinda not. Just some settings given away a bit and a little sneak peak of what's ahead in season 5 as far as show format. Consider me intrigued!
Mike,
Nothing spoilerish in the article, but it does give a general plot synapsis of the rest of this season's episodes.
I am interested to hear people's thoughts on the "flash" comment and the Dharma station with three levels. Is it a hint that people can be in the past, present, and future all at once while on the island? And if so, when a character (maybe Michael) dies on the island does he also die in the states or vice versa? Ties into the theory of not being able to die off the island, if you are still alive on it. Might also explain why Jack was able to see his father and why his casket was empty. If the island is a place where the past, present, and future all overlap, then maybe his father was actually alive on the island until he died in the past if that makes any sense.
Even though it seems crazy, it also seems to make a lot of sense, to me anyway, lol.
-Addict
mike,
Had to watch the video after your post and the one from cdstedman.
I am not as familiar with these articles from Doc Jensen. Is there anyway the end of the video is just supposed to be funny or is it meant to be a spoiler?
-Addict
“I am interested to hear people's thoughts on the "flash" comment”
Could Docs last theory about the future losties being on the island in the present really happen?
Addict, have you seen the orchid video? There’s lost of possibilities there for time travel.
I thought the Clare comments were interesting, sounds like that have big plans for here and they won’t be so quick to kill her off.
Seems like Lindelof was suggesting that once Island Time catches up with Future time...the show may turn into a basic suspense drama WITHOUT the Island being a central focus and without flashbacks/flash forwards. Of course, I hope he's just trying to make us think that and that it's not actually what's going to happen.
I like the thought of following a Harry Potter Book 7 format where....
HARRY POTTER SPOILERS between the asterixes!
*********************************
Hogwarts (aka...the island) really wasn't the central focus of the book (aka season 5) (well until the end! don't want to spoil the book too much beyond that!).....
**********************************
I just don't see how they could abandon the whole flash perspective of the show, unless the visit to the ORCHID reveals something about the flashbacks and forwards we've been seeing that totally renders them unnecessary in the future! lol (like the flashbacks WERE being triggered by the island and not just a narrative device - but I could just imagine some big continuuity issues if that were the case with some of the flashbacks they selected to tie into certain plotlines)
I do like the concept of the Island being past, present and future all at one time. It could potentially resolve a lot of these GHOST and WHISPER mysteries and as you indicated...the Christian Shephard mystery. Not to mention all of Desmond's visions of the future!
As for Doc-Jensen....who knows what he was trying to do with that video? He can get a little crazy at times with his theories and what not. So you never know when he's being serious or not. But the fact that a certain "PROP" was visible and not "dismantled" would suggest that it will serve a purpose at some point on the show! Don't necessarily think it's a spoiler as in suggesting "something we thought was gone forever is actually NOT" even though that had been theorized before. Like i said...it could be a flashback! lol (i love all this avoiding just ONE word that would make this so much easier to discuss! lol)
i agree stedman about Claire.
and i still like that future losties on present island theory too. but it kinda goes against their Harry Potter BOOK 7 comment too lol and their comment about Jack's upcoming episode.
the more i discuss this column, the more i realize they really did spoil some stuff! lol
Unless the Oceanic 6 end up somewhere near the fake wreckage, I don't understand how the certain prop makes sense if it is meant to be a spoiler.
The story Jack tells in court is about being on a beach, so unless this prop only has to do with them getting to the beach, then it makes no sense because the general public on LOST would have to question this prop however the Oceanic 6 come in contact with the rest of the world.
And cdstedman, before you start with "it's a TV show", I am just saying that would be a reach in my opinion for people to survive a plane crash and end up with this prop.
-Addict
cdstedman,
Did you ever read my last post from yesterday? Does it make any sense to you?
-Addict
Mike
I’ve never read HP book 7 and prob never will so go ahead and spoil it for me. Lol But it makes sense with what they have said in the past. (if you don’t want to be vaguely spoiled skip the * )
********************************
Season 4 is how they get off the island, season 5 is why they need to get back, season 6 is what happens when they return
**********************************
I agree that the prop is probably for a flashback.
Addict
“ before you start with "it's a TV show", I am just saying that would be a reach in my opinion for people to survive a plane crash and end up with this prop.”
Lol hey I agree with you. I don’t think the prop will be used in the rescue. And I did read your last post, I was in a squirrelly mood yesterday and most of my comments were just to see how far I could get under your skin. It’s not in my nature to make personal attacks against someone and I’ll admit I got carried away with you and for that I apologize. As far as I’m concerned all is good and we can talk about other aspects of the show.
ok...with the prop. if it's a flashback..not a spoiler. we knew we'd see it again lol
If it's used for PRESENT DAY or FUTURE...it's a spoiler because of the theory that it was never "TAKEN CARE OF" by a certain BALD Island Dweller. The episode that this "TAKING CARE OF" happened in "The Man From Tallahassee" but the screenshots of the theory are in my blog from the following episode (near the end of the blog i think) http://www.lostaddictsblog.com/2007/03/lost-season-3-episode-14-expos.html
There were questions to why Baldy was soaking wet and that what he actually "took care of" was something else and it was a diversion.....and perhaps he MOVED the prop to somewhere else.
So if that came to be true...then yes..it would be somewhat of a spoiler. But i really don't think that's the case.
All that make sense?
As for Harry Potter, I think I said pretty much everything i needed to say. It's all about the focus of the Island in the next season. That season layout you posted stedman, i had never read before, but kinda how i envisioned it in my head. So yes, they seem to be right on schedule lol
And you're missing out with the Harry Potter! lol
"And you're missing out with the Harry Potter! lol"
I already have a huge stack of books i haven't read that are Lost related so I won't read 7 1000+ page books about a kid wizard anytime soon. lol
Well if you listen to Carlton Cuse they are mapping out LOST just like Harry Potter lol So you could say they're related. Maybe Jacob is a graduate from Hogwarts lol Anyway...the boy wizard was my original turnoff from the books, but they turned out to be quite good. I won't sell them past that though.
enjoy those LOST referenced books. Let me know how that goes for you!
cdstedman,
It's all good. I am about as thick skinned as they come, so no harm. I am never one to shy away from a good debate.
-Addict
Maybe this prop comes into play with Ben's flashback center episode. I have to admit though that I was hoping Ben's travels had more to do with time travel, lol.
Mike,
Interesting theory about moving the prop. I just always assumed that "baldy" was wet from trying to swim ashore without being seen by the others. Him moving the prop would work though because Ben could have convinced him that it was a way to prevent the Losties from getting off the island ("baldy's obsession), but somehow it was still needed by Ben.
-Addict
hmmm..i just always figured it was a deleted scene where he had to plant something on the bottom of the prop or something. not that C4 would work when wet. Then again...i'm no chemist or physicist (whichever one would apply! lol) oh crap..i said C4...i guess no sense in calling it a prop anymore! lol
yeah, it's an interesting theory, but doesn't seem to be one the LOST crew is focused on revisiting. but you never know! lol Good idea with Ben's travels. I don't think Ben is included in Tom's "Some of us" comment with coming and going from the island. So he would need some other method to get off the island. of course i never thought the "SUB" was actually used for transportation off the island. i figured something happened at the looking glass since there was a Submarine doc there.
The reason i say this is because we never see Juliet arrive via the sub...we just saw her wake up and be strapped in. and last we had heard she was going to take a flight. We've never seen anyone actually ARRIVE at the island. but now we've seen someone leave via helecopter and we saw how crazy that was!
i may have to revisit my theories on the SUB though lol we'll see..probably with that Ben-i-sode!
To cdstedman and Addict:
At some point are you two going to just agree to disagree and get over yoursleves???
While you are both amusing - it gets old trying to slog thru the crap just to get to any real information or discussion.
The comment:
'elaborate on Jack's flash-forward ambition to journey back to the Island. ''This year's finale will sum up exactly how difficult it may be to accomplish that,'' says Lindelof, who adds this cryptic response to speculation that flash-forwards will vanish once Island present meets off-Island future: ''There could easily be a time when the word flash becomes irrelevant.'
maybe I'm being a little exacting here - but is he saying the actual word will be irrelevent? As in - we DO find out that the future selves are on the island hiding so that the word flash is no longer applicable ???
Also think the prop is from a flashback - not a spoiler.
Clare thing could be very interesting. Especially the 'next few years' part. All I'll say without giving anything away to those who did not read the article - which was pretty spoilery in an overview sort of way.
And thanks to all the warning on Harry Potter 7 spoilers. I have not read it yet and would not want to know and was easily able to skip all those asterisks ! {;-)
To most recent anonymous:
If you had paid any attention to our posts today, you would already know the answer to your question, lol. Anyways, glad to see you contributed a lot to the discussion of real information with your post instead of what you refer to as "crap", lol.
Mike,
Do you remember any of the scenery or dialouge when Juliet was on the sub? I seem to recall Ethan telling her the island was "hard" to get to. My guess is that the sub was actually used for the last part of the trip to the island. Otherwise, I am confused why they would put Juliet on the sub (if it is already on the island) unless there are two different subs, which I doubt.
mj,
I may have to re-read Doc Jensen's article, but I thought the next few years in referring to Claire referred to the next few seasons of LOST, not necessarily a spoiler that she was going to be around for years in island time.
-Addict
"Daniel Faraday (Jeremy Davies) and ghost-whispering hustler Miles Straume (Ken Leung) — won't be getting their spotlights until next year."
Glad to see we might something more on Miles next season. He was setup as the most interesting of the freighter four but sense that he's just been a boring grenade holder.
About Claire. I would love it they used her as the catalyst for giving out island secrets through a long visit from Charle. It would give out info and close up all the Claire never mourned Charles death criticism.
now now addict..let's be nice! We had received compliments in another blog (i believe the 1st or 2nd from this season) that everyone is so nice to each other and mature in their discussions! lol Let's keep the peace people! I don't want to start deleting comments! lol
As for Juliet yeah Ethan said something like "that last turn is a bumpy one" or something crazy like that. Yeah I did think they used the Sub but then when Ben start saying that the Sub "maintains the illusion that people can leave" it made me think that maybe they had Juliet wake up on the sub to make her think that's how she got there. Of course, maybe they knocked her out so that her Mind wouldn't be able to UNSTICK in time! Who knows??? But yeah...I won't rule out the SUB actually being used for transportation at this point lol
as for claire...yeah i assumed the next few years (seasons-wise) too. I don't think they can really kill off anyone of the SHEPHARD clan just yet. It seems with Christian being the father of both Jack and Claire...that both of those characters have pivotal roles to play the END Game for this show (obviously Jack did anyway as "the hero"...but i wouldn't rule Claire out either) What that is? no idea as always lol
One more time for good measure...let's keep the peace! lol
Mike,
Sorry that my sarcasm was lost in print. I was trying to be nice, hence the "lol's" in my previous post. I just got a kick of the poster saying he/she was having trouble "slogging" through all the "crap" when the previous 17 posts today were all solid discussion/information posts and then he/she posted something with no new information or discussion while complaining about "crap" posts, lol.
Anyways, if I offended you and/or the anonymous poster, then I apologize.
-Addict
Question about the log from the Black Rock: how did it end up off the island apart from the ship? Was it taken off the island by one of the ship member's during his rescue or smuggled out by one of the Others?
I am just guessing that if we as the audience is supposed to assume that Widmore buying the log helped him in anyway to find the island, then the book would have had to come from the island to be relevant, right?
-Addict
Another question about "The Constant":
Does anyone else think there is a possibility that Desmond and Penny were talking at the end of the episode on the phone, but weren't in the same year? There is a calender on the boat with the year 2004, but was anyone still going into the communication bay for the last couple of days or longer to mark off the days since nothing worked in there? Also, could the proximity of the boat to the island be affecting which time period it is in while at the same time giving the crew members deja vu experiences or worse causing them to go insane? I just didn't get the nice little "wrap-up" comment of Penny saying something like, "Desmond, you kept your promise to call me on Christmas Eve, 2004" or something else to that end. And there is no reason why either one would ask the other one what year it is. Just a thought.
I just think this might be a simple (or maybe not, lol) way to explain how people on the beach are able to communicate with people on the freightor in "real time".
I am convinced that the previous comment by the producers about the amount of time between the flash-backs, island time, and flash forwards being very important and the latest comment about the flashes disappearing are intertwined.
If the past, present, and future all exist together on the island, it might also explain how Charlie was "really there" in the future at the mental institution with Hurley.
The premise that the past, present, and future are all intertwined seems to explain most of the mysterious thus far.
-Addict
i guess i need to work on my sarcasm too Addict lol I knew you were kidding. But at the same time, there's no need for any arguing to persist any further lol so just wanted to get my Rodney King comment out of the way.
As for the Black Rock, well here is what some wise blogger once said (yep...me lol) about that journal "In particular, the 1st Mate's Journal which contains information never revealed to the public. We get information that the Black Rock set sail March 22, 1845. The Journal was found in Madagascar 7 years later. Book has "Edgar" on the binding. So Madagascar is in the Indian Ocean. Bali' is in the Indian Ocean. The expedition crew that found FAKE Flight 815 was in search of the Black Rock. But if they're in the Pacific Ocean...how did the Black Rock end up on the island? And why was the journal in Madagascar?"
I think this ties back to these wormhole ideas or something of things disappearing all over the world and ending up on the island or appearing elsewhere from the island (polar bears in tunisia, nigerian drug planes ending up in the pacific, the black rock supposedly being in the indian ocean and ending up on same island (with no water around it no less)). The journal was found OFF-ISLAND, but it may have been ON ISLAND. So yeah...there is a question of how it got where it did! lol
Still lost as ever on that one!
i don't know about the calendar thing. I think that they just were trying to make it clear that the time on the island and off the island are supposed to be the same. I don't think they wanted us to think about if anyone checked off the calendar in the communications room lol
But good question! I guess we'll see! like you said, just because I say something...doesn't make it fact!
Okay, I haven't read about this anywhere, but I could have SWORN that Alex looked pregnant and was even rubbing her belly in the scene where Ben told her and Karl and Rousseau to go to the Temple. Anybody else see that?
hmmm..that would be some really subtle forshadowing they would've put into the show if that were the case lol I just checked it and there is one quick shot of her hand over her stomach. But it didn't seem like it was intentional or anything to show us she's pregnant. Just seemed like that's where her hand felt like being at the time lol But you never know. Ben was trying to keep her from getting pregnant on the island.
Guess we'll see!
everyone ready for the 3 hour LOST finale? (a la season 1)
well...we're going to have to wait one more week for it....May 22nd there will be no lost. Click here for details.
Hey...i'll live with it to get an EPIC finale as deserved!
http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TVGuide-Editors-Blog/Ausiello-Report/Ausiello-Scoop-Lostgreys/800037370
Conversation starter. I want everyone to pick one moment on Lost that looks like it might have some sort of future payoff on the show.
Here is mine. In "The Man Behind the Curtain" when young Ben is in school they make it point a to get a shot of the teacher talking about a volcano that was once active on the island. I don’t think they’re through with that and we’ll see some sort of volcano action before the series ends.
kudos Sted for the idea. I also don't think they're through with the Volcano idea.
And I would think they also need to touch on that Runway they were planning to build too besides Juliet's joke about Aliens!
But I still gotta touch on the one I keep bringing up over and over again. The Story of Christian Shephard. Obviously, we'll see more of him on the show. But HOW integral will his role be when the show is wrapped? How exactly did he die? What else did he do in Australia before he died? So far we know he's interacted with Ana Lucia, Sawyer, Claire's Aunt, who else??? I keep saying that maybe he interacted with Malkin, the psychic. Who is another character I do not think we are finished learning about. Also, has Christian been to the island previously? Did he know his Son would come after him and end up on the island? Did he want Jack to meet Claire? ahhhh so many questions that need answering.
Hmmm! I always felt that the fact that Claire was told she had to raise her child herself was huge, and alwyas hoped they would re-visit it. Now that we are being led to believe that she is not raising Aaron - I'm hoping for some serious payoff !
Christian Shephard is a big one. It will be interesting to see if he's directly involved with island events or just being manipulated like a lot of the losties.
We can’t forget Anne either. We will see her again.
The list. Who or what is behind it and what does it mean if your name is on it?
-Addict
There's more Doc videos here.
http://www.ew.com/ew/video/exclusives?lineupId=1155151521&videoId=1493152720
Part 2 has one prop that might be spoily part three is spoily free.
all good ones and I may be cheating here a bit because i'm watching Jensen's video diary but the producers HAD mentioned before of revisiting the Henry Gale saga (thought i'd take some of the HTML tags advice in the comments section lol). Would definitely like to know what down between him and Ben and who Henry really was.
There's gotta be tons of other stuff we're not thinking of though!
Oooh...LIBBY! What's her story? Why was she in the mental institution with Hurly?
Why did Desmond get dishonorably discharged from the army? (thought we'd find out in The Constant, but didn't)
Walt's Growth issue
The whole location of the Island issue with stuff disappearing in the Indian Ocean, Nigeria and ending up in the South Pacific (we think). And thinks possibly appearing in Tunisia from the Island, Madagascar (the journal).
Okay..I thought of a few!
things..not "thinks"
Yup just an excuse to try out the italics too! lol
And one more thing i just need to try out....here's the latest Jensen video...no more copy/pasting..you can link right to it!
Here goes nothing:
Link to Jensen Video
Link worked great !
yeah, i'm pretty excited about this lol I found info on how to do bullets too, so stay tuned for that!
Man...these LOST Hiatuses can make even the most mundane things exciting!
Mike, Calm down. If three weeks gets you this excited about links I’m scared to see what 9 months will do to you after the finale. You’ll be doing back flips because your snap crackle pops are SNAP CRACKEL and POPPING lol
whew...another 9 months...man it seems like we just did that! Of course, this year it might be 1 week shorter since the finale is airing 5/29 lol And since they have 2 more hours to incorporate into 2 seasons...it may be even another week shorter! woo hoo 8.5 months! lol
I handled it last time sans the back flips and cereal references...I'll try to do it again!
Scoop on final 6 episodes of season 4
Beware of mild spoilers, but this was released by the producers so I guess they feel it's nothing spoilish. I like the Wizard of Oz reference for the Season Finale episode title lol
Yeah!! Lost is back this week!! I don’t know about everyone else but I’m afraid I’m hyping the return up to much in my head. I did the same thing with episode one and was disappointed in it. It wasn’t until I calmed down and rewatched it before episode two that I realized big picture here and took it for the chapter of the story it was and now give it a WOW. But the previews for this episode look so good I’m doing it again. lol
The difference between this and ep 1 is that the groundwork is set for 6 crazy twisty episodes. THE PAYOFF episodes as you may call them for the 8 prior episodes. I'm psyched too...big time! And while I hand out the WOW's for every episode...i'm looking for many exclamation points after these! lol
new article on tvguide.com they say spoilers but as always...they don't give much away. (i'd do all that HTML linking and stuff but i'm lazy today! lol)
TV Guide Article
Got less lazy lol be warned of pseudo spoilers once again!
Jimmy Kimmel interview with producers Part I
He asks some big questions!
"Kimmel: Is the person in the coffin someone who's not from the island?
Lindelof: [To Cuse] Tread lightly.
Cuse: You will know who's in the coffin before the season is over, and it will not be like, "Who's that person?"
Lindelof: The only people you can rule out, based on what you saw in last year's finale, are Kate and Jack.
Kimmel: And the baby, just based on the size.
Cuse: Yeah, it's too big a coffin for a baby."
Can we put the SMALL COFFIN theory to rest now? lol
No I won’t put it to rest. The coffin was sitting on a time bubble and slowed time around the coffin which causes the light to reflect slower in the bubble and gave the illusion of the coffin being bigger. It’s really only 3 feet long so it must be Aaron. Lol
Great read though. I loved that the ending of Lost depends on the Hawaii law enforcement. I don’t watch Kimmel but I’ve got to find video of riverdancing polar bears lol.
Very interesting side-step they gave on answering whether the coffin resident is from the island !
Also interesting how they state that we all keep trying to explain it all in 1 sentence - and can't. Knew that to be true of course, but it's such fun guessing.
Oh yes LOST: The musical is a good time. I think I saw that one when it aired last year some time. That's probably all you have to search in youtube!
Yeah, basically what they said about not being able to explain it until we have all the information is why I've stopped guessing lol I'm just enjoying the ride. Sure, every now and then I'll try to solve a Mini-Mystery (like my probably false rant about Annie being Sarah lol) But Big picture? I leave it in smarter hands than I! lol
Can't wait for part 2 of the interview and the episode tomorrow night!
New Doc Jensen article
A Video Teaser from the Producers, Emerson, Holloway and Garcia. Good times! Not sure if there was a Freudian slip out of Damon's mouth at the end or not. We'll find out soon enough lol
Interview's with Emilie De Raven (Claire) and Yunjin Kim (Sun) on tv guide today. Emilie's not too informational but Yunjin's hint at a few things.
*****spoilery***
Specifically - interested in how she hopes fans will root for Sun and Jin just like we were rooting for Des and Penny in The Constant. LOL.
I KNEW Jin was not going to be dead ! WhooHoo
http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV-Show-Blog/Tv-Previews/Yunjin-Kim-Losts/800038197
http://community.tvguide.com/blog-entry/TV-Show-Blog/Tv-Previews/Emilie-Ravin-Lost/800038200
Article from SciFi.
A little spoilery about what we can expect to see/find out by the seasons end. Alot I've read already - but a few new tidbits on what we will see in the upcoming weeks.
Carlton Cuse and Damon Lindelof, executive producers of ABC's Lost, offered reporters major spoilers for the remainder of the fourth season, which resumes with new episodes on April 24.
Speaking in a conference call with reporters on April 17, they revealed that the conflict between Jack (Matthew Fox) and Locke (Terry O'Quinn) will reach a head in the season finale; that viewers will learn more about the fate of Claire (Emilie de Ravin); and that viewers will learn more about what happened to Rousseau (Mira Furlan) and Karl (Blake Bashoff), who were shot by an unknown assailant and left for dead in the last original episode to air, "Meet Kevin Johnson."
Also, Cuse promised that viewers will see the smoke monster again in the first new episode back. In upcoming episodes there will be more of the mysterious Jacob, and viewers will also finally learn more about the four-toed statue.
As for the two-part fourth-season finale, "There's No Place Like Home," the producers said there was no way they could squeeze in all the story they wanted to tell without expanding the final episode to two hours.
"We had an eight-hour story plan that got condensed down to five initially because of the strike," Lindelof said. "And in trying to cram all that story around the finale, the rubber hit the road. And we realized that it all felt very rushed and we were short-changing our emotional moments. You know, our character moments. So we read the 80-page first draft of hour two and looked at each other and said, 'There's no way we're going to be able to cut this down to a 55-page script. Why don't we expand it to 100 pages?'"
The final three hours will deal with the romantic triangle of Kate (Evangeline Lilly), Jack and Sawyer (Josh Holloway). "All we can say is Sawyer is not one of the Oceanic Six, and Jack and Kate are," Lindelof said. "Obviously there will be a huge focus in these final three hours of the show that comprise the finale in terms of how that series of events transpires and what ultimately happens to Sawyer, and it's all on the axis of the love triangle. We think that both fans of Sawyer and Kate--otherwise known as the 'Skaters,' from what I am told--and Jack and Kate--the 'Jaters'--will have a bounty of interesting romantic scenes."
As for that standoff between Jack and Locke? "I think Locke and Jack, to us right from the beginning, represented the two significant philosophical poles of the show," Cuse said. "Jack was the ultimate empiricist, and Locke was the person who believed his fate and destiny were all tied up in the magic and mystery of this island. And the conflict between those two guys is really the central conflict on our show. So that's a theme we continue to explore. And there's a big culmination of that that takes place in this season's finale."
Beyond that, the series will be "revisiting the emotional idea" behind the kiss that Jack and Juliet (Elizabeth Mitchell) had early in the season, possibly in the May 1 episode, Lindelof said.
"There are definitely some very large and seismic events that will happen to our castaways between now and the end of the season," Cuse said. "And by the end of the season some people's fates will be clear, and others will not be so clear."
Lost returns with "The Shape of Things to Come," the first of five new episodes, on April 24 in a new timeslot, Thursdays at 10 p.m. ET/PT. Part one of "There's No Place Like Home" will air on May 15. The two-hour second part will air on May 29 at 9 p.m.
All this tall about a "seismic events" makes me think we'll see that volcano I was talking aboout sooner than later.
Link to Jensen article not working - here's the address.
http://www.ew.com/ew/article/0,,20194903,00.html
Basra ??? Here's all I got and I can't see the connection to HG Wells.
Basra is the third-largest city of Iraq. Located along the Shatt al-Arab waterway 34 mi from the Persian Gulf . The area surrounding Basra has substantial petroleum resources and many oil wells. Is in a fertile agricultural region, with major products including rice, maize corn, barley, pearl millet, wheat, dates, and livestock. The Basra province has international borders with Kuwait to the south and Iran to the east.
Bahamas Air Sea Rescue Association
BASRA is the only dedicated search and rescue organization in The
Bahamas. We are a volunteer group that is supported by donations,
grants and legacies from all sectors of the community.
"Double-Crossing Telescopic Two-for-One Ass Whooping!"
No idea - but can't wait !!!
Seriously - gotta get to work now. LOL But, I'm so excited, I just can't hide it. I';m about to lose control and I just can't hide it ! ROFLMAO. Lord I need a vacation !
I found it ironic that Sawyer managed to express disgust at Michael being aboard the freighter, considering that he had recently murdered two people out of revenge. As if that's a legitimate reason to murder someone.
I think my disgust was with Sawyer in that scene.
Eh...on that Island full of broken people who are all guilty of something...I think Sawyer feeling a little sketchy about one of their own killing 2 more of their own can sort of be justified on the crazy LOST island where there are no rules.
Killing Anthony Cooper was actually egged on by Locke, but by the end Cooper was basically begging for it to be done with his attitude!
Killing Tom "Mr. Friendly" - Ironically was out of revenge for him taking Walt off of the raft which turned his friend, at the time, Michael into a killer.
Nobody was perfect on that show. Everyone was flawed, which turned out kind of being the whole point.
This was an engaging episode, but not quite on the same level as some of the better ones (and of course, nowhere near The Constant). The story of Michael is fairly entertaining, but his suicide complex and relatively bland personality aren't very riveting.
Much more riveting was Rousseau's death, which was very sad after she'd just reunited with her daughter.
Holy cow, 177 comments! This is more than I can wade through before watching the next episode! Haha, like you said Mike, I should just skim through them, which is what I did this time. Also, I might skip commenting altogether on an episode or two as I move forward with the series, because I'm having a hard time resisting watching the next show right away on Netflix. To be honest, I've already watched the next one!
But I'll be sure to comment on the eps that are really cool or mean something extra to me. And when big surprises or cliffhangers occur, I really want to comment before I see the next episode and find out what's actually happening. As much as possible, I want to follow along on the same ride as everyone else did when they watched the show week by week and year by year as it originally aired.
The blog is better than ever, though, so I will definitely be reading every recap and some of the commentary even if I don't comment.
I think the ideas presented in this episode were more interesting than the actual episode itself. (i.e. the island won't let you die. There have been and will be other instances where this comes into play. Think about when Jack tried to kill himself in the flash forward.)
As for the comments...I mentioned before this was a result of the writer's strike. They had written 8 episodes prior to the strike. And then they went through several ideas of how to resume when the strike was over. They eventually decided to air the 8 and then have a mini-hiatus and then wait until the other episodes were ready. I think they even aired on Thursday night instead of Wednesday when it returned.
I love how you thought you could try to avoid commenting on all of them, but got sucked right in! I'll be sure to read them all!
And thanks for the props on the blog!
Wow, what's with all the comments? No way I'm reading all of them! I usually catch up on the comments sometime during the day, but I don't think I'll manage it this time.
This was kind of meh. I agree with your comment from the year before that we were given some interesting information but did not get an engaging episode.
I loved your recap of Sayid questioning Michael. Lol indeed :)
All this about some of the "others" being able to leave the island, Michael being unable to kill himself, etc. seems very interesting. I'll wait and see how it all plays out. As for Ben vs Widmore being the bad guy - I think neither story is completely true. Either there's some third agent in the play, or both of them are involved in the cover-up somehow.
How ironic that Sayid is disgusted with Michael working for Ben. And the captain didn't looked at all surprised at the revelation about Michael!
I'm sure Karl is a goner, but I think there's still hope for Rousseau. I don't care about her too much, but as you said, she still has some unfinished business in the show. And of course I'm curious how it goes for Alex. I'm not sure "I'm Ben's daughter" was the right thing to say!
Leta - Reasons for comments is 2-fold. The popularity of the Lost Addicts Blog grew exponentially throughout the run of the series. So, more and more people were commenting. By season 6 you'll have to page through comments to see your own responses and my responses back to you!
It was fun, but keeping up my trend of responding to everyone got near impossible, but I still did it for the most part!
The 2nd reason was this was the last episode that was produced before the writer's strike shut down the writer's room. So we had a brief hiatus from LOST until they struck a deal. Then the LOST team figured out a way to close out season 4 with only 6 more hours for the season. One of those hours was negotiated so they could have a 3 part finale. The final 3 seasons were originally supposed to be 16 episodes each. This one was 14 and s5 and 6 were 17 each (plus an extra half hour for the 2.5 hour finale)
I don't recall how I recapped Sayid interrogating Michael, but I'm sure i was entertaining myself in the process! LOL
Interesting thoughts on Ben/Widmore. We'll see! As for Michael being unable to kill himself...i.e. The Island not letting him...it immediately made me think of Jack on that bridge ready to throw himself over and a car accident happened causing him to go into hero mode again. There's certainly a few times stuff like that happens. I discuss it ad nauseum (SP) in the recaps...but it does go somewhere eventually!
Very ironic indeed!!!
No comment on the Rousseau clan!
How many of the 48 fuselage survivors have we lost?
Because I'd like to believe that there was 42, when we also had 23 tailies.
My only question is how could Ben fake the crash? I'd say Widmore would have, to lure other people, like Mr. Paik or maybe even Penny, away from search.
Ben doesn't seem like someone who could stage something that big just like that. That would ruin some of his character to me, although it does explain how all bodies looked like the real ones.
Also, Ben did by no means orchestrate the whole thing just to get Jack to operate on him, he could've just gone up to him and asked, Jack would never back down from surgery, this would even give Ben the advantage of being "just a patient" and not a psychopath who started kidnapping random kids from a group of plane crash survivors on a not-so-deserted island.
I think Jacob will be getting a bigger role to play in this series, and that could eventually lead to more answers. He could as well have staged the fake plane.
In season 1, I think the pilot mentioned something about the plane not having a black box ...
Not sure if you're same anonymous that posted recently on another recap, but apologies for the delay in responding. Don't get notified anymore and it's driving me crazy!
I think I tried to do that math before on the survivors. I think we lost scott or steve, Arzt, boone, Shannon, Charlie, air marshall....That would be 6. But of course that count always changes. But at some point there was probably 42. lol
Good speculations on the crash! I don't want to tell you if you're right or wrong!
Don't remember what I said in the recap, but it wouldn't surprise me if I threw some wild theory out there that Ben planted the plane just for a surgery. lol But yes that sounds ridiculous to me now with the gift of hindsight! :)
No comment on Jacob!
They went to the plane to get the transponder/walkie to try and call for help. Not sure they ever mentioned the black box or not. But maybe??
I like that you're giving all of this a lot of thought all these years later while you work your way through! Just remember to enjoy the ride and don't keep watching just waiting for answers to ALL of the questions. There are answers coming, but the ride is the best part! (Though I loved the end!)
Hi Mike! I just want to say that I'm rewatching Lost for the first time since it ended (my husband had never seen it so it's his first time), and I am loving reading your recaps! I don't know if I read them the first time through... I feel like I was obsessed, always googling to get more information between episodes. I'm definitely obsessed all over again, but this time, I am able to relax and enjoy the show more, since I vaguely remember how it all turned out. Now that I know the ending, there are hints and clues leading to it all along and it amazes me all the crazy theories that were out there and how much effort people put in to trying to analyze every detail! Don't worry, I won't say anything spoilery, just wanted to say hello, and thank you for the blog, AND for keeping up with the comments, even now!! Always nice to hear from other fans so I always read the comments as well. At first it was easy, but these recent episodes are getting very time consuming with all the comments!
Hi Katie! Thanks on the recaps! And thanks for adhering to the unofficial “no future spoilers” policy I try to adhere to in these comments. :) I always felt that way. Of course I was writing this blog at the time so my first time watching I was taking notes and looking at every nook and cranny of an episode. After I finished the recap I let go of the craziness and rewatched the episode just to enjoy it as television...and that’s what I do on all rewatches. It’s such a well made television show. And that’s why I could never be upset with how it ends or if something didn’t get resolved (NOT SPOILERING! I can answer any question to my own satisfaction. Lol). And exactly...on rewatches you can see how they built towards that inevitable ending along the way. I’m sure things changed here and there. Casting didn’t always go the way they hoped. (Some people left early when they had big plans, some others took advantage of extra screen time to get bigger roles on the show) But I think the general idea of what they were moving towards was there since the early seasons some time. (Maybe not 1 because they were flying by the seat of their pants just to get a show on the air each week!). Oh yeah, these comments sections only get worse (BETTER! But worse if you’re trying to read them all lol). The audience for the blog grew exponentially after the end of season 3. It was a crazy ride, and I had a hard time keeping up with the comments and felt some obligation (actually, just wanted to) to respond to everyone (I guess I still do!). Thanks again for your kind words. You’re welcome for the blog. I’m glad people still find value in it!
Wow!!! (A famous “wow”!) I knew you would respond, but didn’t know it would be so quick! I tried commenting a couple times on previous episodes, but it didn’t work for me from my phone. I’m glad I finally got my comment in here from the computer. It is amazing how they had casting changes and writers strikes and still managed to pull off such a great show. I was surprised to learn Ben was initially just a guest character for a couple episodes and then they gave him a bigger role... I can’t imagine the show without him! We have been binging an episode a night and I’m already getting sad that it will be over soon. Well, in 2+ seasons but still. It’s so fun for me to see scenes I always remembered like some of Hurley’s great comedic moments, and other scenes I might as well never have seen because they didn’t stick with me at all. It’s a weird experience (in a good way!) watching after so long and having a vague idea what’s going to happen, but not all the details. It’s like watching a new show and an old favorite at the same time!! I will need your recommendations for good shows to watch after we’re done! Not the classic shows like Breaking Bad and Deadwood (loved and loved), but what are you watching now? What are you getting into? I would love your suggestions! I guess that’s a little off topic for the blog, but I respect your opinion :)
:-). Nice on the Wow! I think if you go to the “desktop” version of the page you are able to comment from your phone, but it definitely is a pain. Sorry I haven’t updated the blog to any new fangled comment options! not that blogs are as popular these days anyway!
Yeah casting, writers strikes all played a part in what LOST is. Ben is the most famous example. He and Juliet got a lot more screen time because the actor that played Eko wanted off the show to be closer to home. They had big plans for ol’ Eko! Speaking of the writer’s strike this episode was the last one BEFORE the strike. When it returned they covered a lot in a few episodes just to close up the season. But some of those episodes were FANTASTIC! Including “THE SHAPE OF THINGS TO COME” which I think is next.
So I’m 10 years older now since the end of LOST. I have school age kids that never go to bed! We ain’t watching much! Lol I rewatched LOST last summer. Game of Thrones I recapped from season 4 on (on tvaddictsblog.com as well as every episode of the walking dead...which I’m tired of!) I also recapped Fringe on that site from season 3 on. Loved that show! These days...I just watched The Umbrella Academy on Netflix (season 2 was a vast improvement on S1). Better Call Saul is a masterpiece. Started off slow but this last season was near perfect. Ozark...trying to catch up on that but we’re trudging through season 2. The episodes are so long and we don’t start tv until like 10 or 11! I’m falling asleep! Lol My favorite network show of the past few years had to be THE GOOD PLACE (and Damon Lindelof was consulted on that before Mike Schur started it)....it’s a totally serialized sitcom and it’s fabulous! There’s a ton of stuff I’m still watching I can’t think of it all. Just finished AGENTS OF SHIELD. Series finale was last wednesday. That went from a disposable show to something really character driven and heartfelt. It only got better to the point that I miss it now. I watch the CW DC shows but I’m tired of them. (Flash, Supergirl, ....but I LOOOOVE Legends of Tomorrow. First season was meh but then it got awesome) Nothing really has scratched the itch that LOST did. Maybe Game of Thrones which I dove deep into books and all. People were disappointed by the end but I think that’s due to GRRM’s slow writing. :). Give me time and I’ll suggest more shows. That’s all I can think of for now. Feel free to keep commenting along your rewatch. I’ll respond!
Well it is 3.30am and just got to the comments section... 187 of them! Not sure how many I will get through before falling asleep but just wanted to mention about Michael guessing Naomi was from Manchester.
Not sure if other comments picked up on it, but that just seems really odd... If he'd said North of England, fair enough. Yes Manchester is distinct to a degree, and as a resident of the city, I can detect which part of Greater Manchester someone is from - Bury is distinct from Wigan for example, but only to locals surely. I can barely tell New York from Texas so I'm sure anyone from USA who doesn't know UK that well wouldn't be able to tell Manchester from any other Northern accent. If he was making a lucky guess, he could have seemed more excited at being right. According to Wiki the actress was born and went to school about 3 miles from where I lived and she has a default North Manchester accent. The actor that played Charlie only moved to South East Manchester (Stockport) from Germany aged 11, though the Stockport/South Manchester accent is very similar to the North Mcr one. But I'm still not having it that he would have clicked Naomi based on listening to Charlie for a few days.
Nice to see Mike that you are watching Better Call Saul as I have recently watched it all and am patiently waiting for the final season to start!
Wow this has taken me all day to go through the comments. The debate / argument by the wannabe keyboard warriors about time bubbles was tedious and both characters need to look at how they conduct debate in the future... Hopefully they have grown up a bit in the last 12 years!
My other comments about the episode...
- Alex's mum and dad... So it this still a mystery or did I miss something? I mean Ben is her dad so Ben slept with her... Or does she consider him her dad as he adopted her when she was abducted? Was Alex born on the island... I can't remember the story now about what was meant to have happened.
- The freighter boat called Kahma or something similar... I was watching on a small screen so may have missed something important... But when Jin and Bernard were in the boat fishing and Bernard was talking about Karma, he said "You know Karma?" and Jin said yes and then it immediately went to a shot of the freighter where the full name was visible and the name Kahma... but the full name was clearly showing. Dunno if that is worth mentioning especially as I can't remember the exact wording but it seemed significant at the time.
- I don't quite get the logic of the cover-up Oceanic 6 story and hope that will be clarified as the episodes go on. If the decoy plane wa ls put there and the Oceanic 6 turn up... Did they also agree to not mention anything about the island they were on as I remember when Ben said that the island's powers would attract many visitors... Well so would a plane crash site... There is a WW1 or 2 (can't remember which) crash site on a hill near Manchester that is about a mile off any official walkway and is quite dangerous to get to, but it gets hundreds of nosey visitors broadcasting live on instagram etc... So once the fake version of the crash is debunked, there would be a worldwide investigation into how it existed, unless Ben or Widmore really has the power to block all world media... I know the conspiracy theorists think that is what happens now with a new world order type thing but the fake plane seems very risky as it would lead to investigations of those responsible. Hope the episodes will explain more...
- I was thinking about how the island deals with time... And we've sort of established that it corrects when things don't go to plan like Charlie's death... Well what it is can correct time, a bit like a radio station does when a phone in caller swears on air. The show is on a 10 second delay and swear happens but flick of a switch and it never happened. The time delay then builds back up to 10 seconds but they need to do it over a couple of minutes so you don't notice the gradual re-spacing of the time. In the UK they would resolve this by going straight to an advert break after a time reverse sequence so another caller doesn't come on until the 10 second delay had built up again. So my point was, maybe the island can compress time or expand it depending on the circumstances a bit like the radio station can
Can't wait to see how the rest of the season plays out!
First off...the reason there were so many comments on this one was because of the Writer’s Strike Hiatus. I never put up a new post so all the comments went here until the next episode.
Better Call Saul - Nice! It’s been better than it has any right to be. Vince Gilligan is the master of the television format and season 5 was right up there with the best of Breaking Bad. Join me on TV Addicts Blog during the last season and we can chat about it! :)
Lol on the keyboard warriors. Yeah there were some crazy theories out there all throughout lost. Most of the time people kept their sanity on this blog and we had some good discussions. But other times, we went off the deep end. I did try to entertain all theories, but I really just loved the show, loved raising questions and trying things together from past episodes. I just couldn’t wait to see where it went.
Alex’s parents - there’s still more to come on this. I don’t want to spoil.
Name of freighter is not worth remembering as far as I recall.
Oceanic 6 logic - there’s more coming on this, but I can’t promise it will make more sense. Best to just go with the flow on this one for the sake of the rollercoaster ride! Lol
Time - definitely don’t want to touch on this one. But I’ll be happy to discuss more (and my “past” self may already have) a little later. :)
I watched the first season when it first aired, many years ago, but then I kinda forgot about the show as life went on. Now I decided to binge-watch the entire show for the first time. I must say that your blog is such a nice addition for the experience. It's also kinda funny how it's all wrapped up in time: the show, the blog, me finally watching it :)
The thought that forced me to write this comment is about Michael: why he did not tell anyone off the island, police for example, about the island itself, survivors, staged plain crash and the dug up cemetery after he found out all about it? This would be the best and easiest way to save his "friends" on the island. I am sure that he could prove that he is Michael from the 815, it's probably fairly easy to find out about the plane purchase. It's not like you can buy it for cash. I probably missed something on the show that answers my question, though.
Anyway, thank you for the awesome blog! Cheers from Russia.
Hi V! Thanks for reading the blog and thanks for the compliments! I never expected this to be beneficial for future viewers the way it has but it’s been awesome to see!
Good question on Michael. I honestly forget if the others told him he had to keep his mouth shut. But he certainly felt shame for what he did on the island. If he talked about it it may have eventually come back that he murdered 2 passengers of 815. All he cared about was getting Walt off the island and keeping him safe. I might be due for a rewatch though because some details may be getting away from me! :)
Thanks again for writing and feel free to chime in along the way!
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